Program quality

[dbutz02]

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I've been trying to research programs to figure out where to do away rotations and I'm having a difficult time really evaluating them base solely on the information provided on their websites. They all more or less sound the same. Anyone have a list of the top, mid, and low tiers? Top 5, or worst 5?
It's such a small community it's hard to find good information. I've received some feedback from my advisor but only about select programs. I'd like to find or make a more comprehensive list.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

Some of the older threads on this website have rankings lists, if you're interested.

I'm in the same application cycle as you (i.e. next year) so we're both still deep within the Platonic cave, so to speak, but I think it's more important to focus on your goals within plastics and which programs seem more geared towards people like you. For example, are you interested in fellowships/academics or private practice? Do you want a program with strong training in aesthetics or one that under-emphasizes it? How do you feel about research? Plastics has the highest rate of board-certified docs in PP of any field (>85%) so the programs which routinely send most of their people into fellowships/academics are a bit sparser on the ground than others-- and they are not necessarily the "top 5." These questions do *not* have the same answers as in other fields.

And lastly... the integrated match isn't exactly a buyer's market, you know? I've decided personally it's probably not worth it to get my hopes up about any particular program (even though I have a couple of "dream programs" stashed away upstairs). In thinking about my application I've decided that I'm the sort of applicant who can be helped by aways, and I will definitely do them at my dream programs, but really I just want to match.

 

[PRS2009]

Not quite sure why people are so unwilling to make these lists. Personally, I find them very entertaining, but not at all helpful. Of course, they are based on absolutely no data and are completely open to interpretation. All plastic surgery programs are going to give you great training, so with that disclaimer, here you go (only pertains to 5-7 year ACADEMIC HEAVY programs)

Top tier (no order): Harvard, Penn, Pitt, NYU, UWash, UTSW, Hopkins, UMichigan

Second tier (no order): WashU, Northwestern, UCSF, Baylor, University of Wisconsin at Madison

Third tier (no order): Yale, Stanford, USC, UChicago, Wake Forest, Case Western, MCW, Georgetown

The rest are all great programs, but perhaps are not as frequently mentioned when people ask "What are the best programs in the country?"

 

[PRS2009]

As mentioned that list, like many are more based on 2 things, research and "name" of the institution or of their famous faculty who write textbooks. People always talk about getting what you want out of a program. Quality is pretty relative. Maybe you want a place where you'll do a ton of nerve - then WashU is it, or a ton of aesthetics - then Grand Rapids is it. Those 2 are very different with very different strengths. That being said the public recognizes names like Hopkins and Stanford, not necessarily Rochester or Utah. Understand that name recognition does not always equal "quality" if they aren't strong in what you like.

Top by training rep, not just name (imho): utsw, wake, harvard, madison, grand rapids, MCOW, washington, but again they all have different strengths and styles. Decide what you want and then ask about quality and reputation. Sorry to be so nonspecific.

 

[PRS2009]

I actually agree with the tiers above for the most part. It seems like an accurate representation of the current plastic surgery program "standings." However, its also true that on an individual basis, some programs are better than others. For example, if you are a person that learns strictly "by doing," a program like NYU may not be the best fit for you (many private patients, many fellows, etc). On the other hand, if you absorb everything around you like a sponge and can accelerate by simply observing some of the best people in the field, NYU is your place. It all comes down to personal learning styles, choice of city, and many intangible factors that you can never capture in a ranking.

However, I completely understand a person's desire for a "list" of top-notch programs (I looked for them too!). If you are using these "rankings" as a guide and reference point, then the one provided here is quite accurate (although I would like to see more people's opinions). But if you are using these list to solely determine the next six years of your life without regard to personal factors, you are likely making a mistake.

 

[ItalianPlastics]

I agree...it is hard to know before applying which programs are in the "top tiers" and I searched while I was trying to make my interview schedule. It's pretty important as well when you have interview offers on the same day and you have to pick in between. There's also a difference of opinion on "name brand" programs...I'm of the opinion that name brands become that way for a reason, but with that also comes the long tradition and those programs and they tend to be very set in their ways vs a newer less well-known program that is very good, but could be more tailored to the resident.

This is basically my list from what I gathered on the interview trail and where I found the residents to be the happiest. I also agree that it really depends on what you are looking for. If you want to be an academic chair, a place like UMich or MCW might be great because they give you a year of research to build your CV. If you want to do private practice gen PRS, Wake or Grand Rapids might be your best bet. UCSF has some name recognition, but it is a 3+1+3 program which might not be for you. Same with Pitt. Only tip I would give is to look at the entire package. You want to go to a place that will train you very well (which most programs will) but also be in a place where you'll be happy. If you're a city person, don't rank SIU high, even though it's a great program...it's in the middle of NOWHERE!! 6-7 yrs is a LONG time to spend in a place where you're not happy--I dont' care if you're in the "best plastics program" in the world!"

As for aways...I think 1-2 are pretty much required and you want to try to go to a place you're interested in, though it's not necessary. I rotated at one of my "second tiers" but got in to one of the "top tier" programs so just rotating at a place doesn't mean that you're signing up to go there.

Good luck! It's hard...much harder than anything you've done up to this point, but so worth it!

Top tier: Penn, Pitt, NYU, UWash, UMichigan, Wake, Stanford, UTSW (attracts a certain personality type, but people there were generally happy with the quality of training), Northwestern, Georgetown

Second tier (no order): WashU, UCSF, Baylor, Rochester NY, Cornell/Columbia, Harvard, Yale, Hopkins, Brown, USC, Case Western, Most "state schools" (Ohio State, U Ky, MCW, UW - Madison, U chicago, U Utah, SIU, USF, UCI, UCD, USC), Grand Rapids, Columbia MO, Cincinnati

Third tier (no order): Albany, VCU, Las Vegas, UTMB, Scott/White, UMass