Program troubles

[colderfeet]

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Hello everyone,

I'm a first year student, just started in my clinical (PhD) program. Recently, I've been having a lot of trouble with adjusting and my program as a whole.

Coming into graduate school, I was thrilled, excited, had a heavy research focus and was keen on going into academia for a potential research career.

Since starting my program, I've been having a lot of second thoughts about everything and my opinions have changed. I'm nearly 1500 miles away from home, depressed, and generally feeling overwhelmed and incapable of the work cut out for me. Previously an excellent student, I find myself behind in classes and unable to understand the material/ stay on top of the coursework despite reading, studying, etc. It genuinely feels like I don't have the aptitude for the coursework and I'm really struggling to stay on top. Beyond that, I feel exhausted by the competitive nature of the field (getting funded, internship process, applying for tenure track positions, etc) and don't know if it's sustainable for me long term.

At this point, the only thing I get genuine happiness from in my program is getting to administer research assessments and work hands on with patients. Other than that, I find myself emotionally drained, feeling generally incapable and quite frankly- too dumb to be in my program. It's hard to face this, as I am incredibly passionate about the field, love research and reading articles, and working with patients.

In coming here, I'm looking for any sort of advice about how to handle this... Am I perhaps in the wrong program? Are these normal adjustment issues? Any words of advice? Should I perhaps think about taking a leap of absence from the program?

 

[erg923]

Hello everyone,

I'm a first year student, just started in my clinical (PhD) program. Recently, I've been having a lot of trouble with adjusting and my program as a whole.

Coming into graduate school, I was thrilled, excited, had a heavy research focus and was keen on going into academia for a potential research career.

Since starting my program, I've been having a lot of second thoughts about everything and my opinions have changed. I'm nearly 1500 miles away from home, depressed, and generally feeling overwhelmed and incapable of the work cut out for me. Previously an excellent student, I find myself behind in classes and unable to understand the material/ stay on top of the coursework despite reading, studying, etc. It genuinely feels like I don't have the aptitude for the coursework and I'm really struggling to stay on top. Beyond that, I feel exhausted by the competitive nature of the field (getting funded, internship process, applying for tenure track positions, etc) and don't know if it's sustainable for me long term.

At this point, the only thing I get genuine happiness from in my program is getting to administer research assessments and work hands on with patients. Other than that, I find myself emotionally drained, feeling generally incapable and quite frankly- too dumb to be in my program. It's hard to face this, as I am incredibly passionate about the field, love research and reading articles, and working with patients.

In coming here, I'm looking for any sort of advice about how to handle this... Am I perhaps in the wrong program? Are these normal adjustment issues? Any words of advice? Should I perhaps think about taking a leap of absence from the program?

Its not uncommon to feel this way, to some extent, early on. Coursework material is generally described as overwhelming, but other than stats/psychometrics, it generally should not feel conceptually all that difficult..at least typical first year courses.

I would bet that one of the primary reasons why students sour on the academic track is due to the factors you describe. Its competitve, there is alot of presure, its certaily not a 40 hour work week, the salary stinks for the amount of time/work you put in unless you are a rock star and pulling R01s regualrly...and lets face it, publishing empirical reserach is a fairly rewardless activity, at least in my experience.

You should feel free to change interests and carer trajectories in the coming years. Thats called healthy professional growth. If you are the modal grad student, the next 5 years will see vastly changing priorities as you marry and start thinking about family, money, and life-work balance, etc. I am sorry to say that dreams of being the rock star tenured profesor at a big ten school are often trumped by other, more pragmatic, and often more rewarding life experiences.

I think its to soon for a LOA. Give it another year and see where you are. Also, seek support from members of your cohort. I guarantee you are not the only one harboring these feelings. If you have a personable adviser, perhaps broach the toppic with him/her as well. They were in grad school once too, ya know.

 

[PsyDr]

in some regards, grad school is professional hazing. There's tons to learn, but that is not really material. We take our student with the lowest credentials and make them take the most difficult patients, apply for grants which require an academic history which is not present, get them to write 80% of a paper when they have limited publication experience, etc.

It's a game, and you're the rookie. Watch your professors' lifestyles, because that is what you are trying to acheive. Do not look at your own, other than to remind yourself never to be that much of a dick to students when you get there.

Also, if you are that lonely and homesick you might need to look into this "self care" thing taht everyone keeps telling me about.

 

[MCParent]

in some regards, grad school is professional hazing. There's tons to learn, but that is not really material. We take our student with the lowest credentials and make them take the most difficult patients, apply for grants which require an academic history which is not present, get them to write 80% of a paper when they have limited publication experience, etc.

It's a game, and you're the rookie. Watch your professors' lifestyles, because that is what you are trying to acheive. Do not look at your own, other than to remind yourself never to be that much of a dick to students when you get there.

Also, if you are that lonely and homesick you might need to look into this "self care" thing taht everyone keeps telling me about.

I never felt like I was treated like this as a grad student. I think it DOES happen at some places, but I think it's wholly unnecessary.

I think there's a difference between a toxic environment that doesn't allow you to do what you want (e.g., if my professor were stealing papers and presentations from me and cutting me out of authorship, or putting non-contributing favored grad students on them to boost their CVs) versus someone experiencing a steep learning curve as they transition from a stellar undergrad to one of many bright grad students, or learning to think differently than they had to in undergrad.

 

[erg923]

Watch your professors' lifestyles, because that is what you are trying to acheive.

I'm not sure I follow. I think most of us would suggest the opposite, no? To do strive for what we want (what they have/have accomplished) but not fall prey to some of the habits/flaws and imbalance demonstrated by our mentors?

 

[PsyDr]

IME, which is unusual, it is easy to look at the student lifestyle as permanent. I saw a few students leave programs because they did not see that this stress level, patient population, etc was transitory for most. I was just encouraging OP to look at what the future likely could hold rather than get mired down in the present.

 

[Ollie123]

I'm not sure I follow. I think most of us would suggest the opposite, no? To do strive for what we want (what they have/have accomplished) but not fall prey to some of the habits/flaws and imbalance demonstrated by our mentors?

I think this depends on what kind of setting you are in. I'd love to have the lifestyle of the faculty I've worked with over the years. They work hard, but have reasonable hours with tremendous flexibility, work from home some days, travel frequently with their families, etc. They get paid extremely well and have tremendous control over how they spend their days. Its still probably not a strictly 40 hour week, especially around deadlines, but a well-paying professional job you never have to work a minute over 40 hours is pretty rare. I've met far more faculty like this than the workaholic/sleep-in-the-office types. And yes - these are folks who typically have several active large-scale grants at any given time.

That doesn't mean I'm not working ridiculous hours right now, but I do so in the hopes of making it into a setting like that. I'm guessing PSYDRs experience was similar based on the comment.

 

[Rivi]

In coming here, I'm looking for any sort of advice about how to handle this... Am I perhaps in the wrong program? Are these normal adjustment issues? Any words of advice? Should I perhaps think about taking a leap of absence from the program?

During my first year, one of the advanced students told me that everyone in her class had a "breakdown" at some point during the program, usually during the first or second year. I was definitely no different, and had to see a cardiologist at one point because I was having chest pains and daily heart palpitations. It turns out that this was stress-induced. I remember thinking: "how the hell am I going to put up with four more years of this?" and just tried my best to take it one day at a time. Fortunately, after my first year, things got much better to the degree that the initial craziness is now a distant memory. I don't exactly know what made the difference for me; most of getting past it seemed to be just a natural human tendency to adjust to a situation. I suspect a part of it was developing my life outside of graduate school. I think this gave me a lot more space, as my self-worth, future, sense of happiness, etc. was not completely tied into my career. Overall, first year was ROUGH, second year was decent, third year was good, fourth year even better, and internship is awesome so far. Not everyone's experience is the same, but I am glad I toughed it out.

It can be an extremely discouraging process, thinking about the internship imbalance, the tenure-track madness, etc. All I can tell you is that these experiences, as awful as they feel, tend to go away over time. I don't think there was anything special that I did to make mine go away, but I did seek counseling at one point, which I found helpful. I think finding another outlet for accomplishment and value, such as art, socializing, etc. helps with the discouragement. Also, if I had a dollar for every time I felt like the dumbest person in the room and thought about dropping out, I would be able to retire with a mansion and a yacht.

 

[erg923]

For all those people who had it so bad/were so stressed out during grad school, would you wanna share more about that? I did NOT like grad school, but for reasons thatt primarily had to do with lack of money and a general difficulty I have with authority figures. But, suffice to say that 12 years of Catholic school allows for plenty of practice at holding ones tongue...

Anyway, I had a pretty nice adviser (pretty maternal but not overly personal), did research, plenty of practicum and all that jazz. I worked some long hours. I had some late nights and early mornings. Sucked, but not really "stressful." It was just full time work...like all my fiends and wife were doing too. I slept well. I ate well (and drank well). I blew off a couple classes that I thought were BS but really did not get bothered that the faculty member was irritated. I was prioritizing, pal, we'll both live). I did not get yelled at, pressured to do a bunch of junk (I just said no and didn't even think twice about it reflecting "lack of commitment or initiative" or some other such thing), or worry about supervisors, patients (I guess I'm detached...kidding), or publishing a ton of stuff (not many people read it anyway, frankly). I did not find dissertation stressful because I did not procrastinate, I did not care about changing the world with it, and my adviser was sufficiently helpful in all parts of the process (s they should be). I did stress about internship cause I wanted to stop being a student. But frankly, that was brief and that was by far the worst part.

So what made grad school so bad for some of you? You know who I'm talking about...🙂

 

[PsyDr]

Long story short: ocdpd.

 

[KillerDiller]

I didn't suffer any health problems during grad school, unless you count mild acne. However, I was definitely stressed in years 2 and 3 more than I had been before or have been since. With taking 4 full classes, teaching a class myself, 16-20 hours of practicum a week, and finishing a masters thesis/ preparing for comps, it was far more than just working full-time. I was probably putting in something like 65-70 hours a week consistently, and I'm definitely NOT the OCPD overacheiver type. I was fine with simply meeting the base requirements of my program, but that's what it took to do that. Was I miserable? Yeah, some of the time, but not all of it. Did it wreck my life completely? No, I still had time to pursue other values. Would I voluntarily do it again? Hell no.

 

[IT514]

4th year was a struggle due to the internship app process. Worst year by far for me. Similar to erg, I wanted to stop being a student. First year I had thoughts of leaving my program for another, had times where I was very overworked, had normal struggles of adjusting to living in a huge city, as I'm not from one. Second and third years, and honestly most of the first, were really fun after I developed a social life, had great practica and some interesting research projects. I found going to conferences to be somewhat refreshing throughout.

Somewhere during my first year, I felt like a got my feet under me when I was able to organize my schedule to the point where I could balance work with rest, working out, hanging out with friends, and usually having a full weekend to unwind. I wouldnt say this made me the standout student in my program, but I'm sure it made me a pleasant person to work with, which is important. Another thing that worked for me, I think, was my value of placing a premium on how I treated people. I tried very hard to never let my level of stress interfere with how I worked with other people, or interfere with me personally, and when it did, I made the necessary adjustments.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I didn't suffer any health problems during grad school, unless you count mild acne. However, I was definitely stressed in years 2 and 3 more than I had been before or have been since. With taking 4 full classes, teaching a class myself, 16-20 hours of practicum a week, and finishing a masters thesis/ preparing for comps, it was far more than just working full-time. I was probably putting in something like 65-70 hours a week consistently, and I'm definitely NOT the OCPD overacheiver type. I was fine with simply meeting the base requirements of my program, but that's what it took to do that. Was I miserable? Yeah, some of the time, but not all of it. Did it wreck my life completely? No, I still had time to pursue other values. Would I voluntarily do it again? Hell no.

I had a somewhat similar workload/schedule during my 4th year while teaching a class, which ended up taking a lot more time than expected. I wasn't miserable, likely because my class load was lighter (2 courses, both elective), but I was pretty busy. Although looking back at it, I was probably juggling the same number of things then that I am now, I may just be more efficient at it and/or used to it. That, and just about anything is more enjoyable than prepping for comps, even when you do the near-bare minimum.

 

[colderfeet]

Hello all-

To address some of the things brought up:

1. I don't really have problems with my advisor or lab. The research work I'm involved with is satisfying, reasonable, efficient.. My mentor is understanding, compassionate, reasonable, but still has an expectation for productivity. I don't really have an issue with any of this, as much as I do about the internal problems and doubts mentioned above.

Long term, I'm concerned about the effect that this ongoing stress (during school, and beyond) is going to have on my mental functioning, long term happiness and life satisfaction. I love the field and I am incredibly passionate about it, I just don't know if the competitive nature of this program and how much it extends beyond into a research career is really something that's healthy and mentally/emotionally sustainable.

Beyond this, I have been six years out of remission of a very personal, maladaptive behavior. Recently, being in my program/school/the personal adjustment experiences have been triggering thoughts of these behaviors. I have sought help but still continue to be concerned that 1) this is happening so early on, 2) whether I will be able to manage it effectively, 3) is this really a healthy career option for me if I can't manage it?

At this point, I'm having a lot of doubts and concerns. I can't talk to my advisor about the paragraph above (as they are unaware of this previous problem), so I'm really looking to sdn for some more advice and help.

Thanks so much for all the insight above.

 

[foremma]

Hello all-

To address some of the things brought up:

1. I don't really have problems with my advisor or lab. The research work I'm involved with is satisfying, reasonable, efficient.. My mentor is understanding, compassionate, reasonable, but still has an expectation for productivity. I don't really have an issue with any of this, as much as I do about the internal problems and doubts mentioned above.

Long term, I'm concerned about the effect that this ongoing stress (during school, and beyond) is going to have on my mental functioning, long term happiness and life satisfaction. I love the field and I am incredibly passionate about it, I just don't know if the competitive nature of this program and how much it extends beyond into a research career is really something that's healthy and mentally/emotionally sustainable.

Beyond this, I have been six years out of remission of a very personal, maladaptive behavior. Recently, being in my program/school/the personal adjustment experiences have been triggering thoughts of these behaviors. I have sought help but still continue to be concerned that 1) this is happening so early on, 2) whether I will be able to manage it effectively, 3) is this really a healthy career option for me if I can't manage it?

At this point, I'm having a lot of doubts and concerns. I can't talk to my advisor about the paragraph above (as they are unaware of this previous problem), so I'm really looking to sdn for some more advice and help.

Thanks so much for all the insight above.

I am not in grad school yet (currently applying), so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I believe what you are feeling is probably a pretty common thing in the first few months of grad school. Only you know if you will be able to manage it, but I would suggest looking at the alternatives. If you drop out, what will you do? Where will you go? Getting into a program is no easy task, and while it may be high stress, a lot of jobs are. If you love the field like you say you do, you will do what is necessary to get into it. I believe it is better to "suffer" now for the long-term pay off, than to get involved in mediocre, unfulfilling work simply to avoid transient stress (granted, it will last a few years). If you believe the stress will carry over into your life after grad school, that's a different story, and then maybe the program isn't right for you. Maybe you should talk to someone who took the path you want, and see what they think. Again, take what I say at face value, as I'm not a grad student yet, but thought I would weigh in. Good luck.

 

[Hope4Grad]

Hi ColderFeet,

I have two thoughts. Since you like the hands on work and are not loving the research would you consider a PsyD? Second, I would stick it out a bit more if you're only a first year. The time goes by and suddenly you realize you're done with 1st year or whatever hurdle seemed insurmountable. That is a great feeling of accomplishment, and it helps propel you through the next phase.

 

[sockit]

Also not a grad student yet, but check this out:

Beyond that, I feel exhausted by the competitive nature of the field (getting funded, internship process, applying for tenure track positions, etc) and don't know if it's sustainable for me long term.

<-- that does not have to be your career; once you graduate and get your internship done, you can get off that particular hamster wheel, and find one that suits you better.

I'm still in undergrad (2nd degree), so have no useful comment on grad school culture etc, or the more psychological of your concerns. Re the practical side of things, though -- just the workload and related stresses might explain a good bit of the difficulties you say you're having with the material.

My demands are definitely not what yours are, but this is the first time I've approached education in a goal-oriented way, involving commitments beyond just taking classes. It's been a big change. I'm a sociable introvert -- fairly reflective and low-energy; prefer solitary activities that allow me to completely control my processes, outcomes and deadlines (i.e. arty stuff). So even at the undergrad level, this early-morning stuff, the commute, the schedule, the outputs, are challenging to me -- they take a physical and mental stamina that I have not so far consistently enjoyed. I am wondering if you might be a bit like that.

If it's the case that you are, maybe think about cutting out as many of the banal life stressors as possible (e.g. commute). Work towards offering yourself the best self-care possible (never sacrifice sleep or food). Take a day each week to plan and schedule your activities. Set reasonable goals -- you don't have to be an expert on every single reading. If you don't feel wonderful about approaching your supervisor or anyone in your department, maybe the grad students' association has something for you -- I'm sure students in other departments are also dealing with overwhelm, to a greater or lesser degree, and might be willing to share coping techniques.

 

[bre333]

Beyond this, I have been six years out of remission of a very personal, maladaptive behavior. Recently, being in my program/school/the personal adjustment experiences have been triggering thoughts of these behaviors. I have sought help but still continue to be concerned that 1) this is happening so early on, 2) whether I will be able to manage it effectively, 3) is this really a healthy career option for me if I can't manage it?

Well, it's good that you've sought help. Are you currently getting help, or have you just started the process? I'm gonna echo what others have said about self-care--the more stressed you are, the harder it can be to justify treating yourself well, but it's more important than ever. It makes sense that a maladaptive pattern's coming back--imho maladaptive behaviors can be so common because they're very soothing in the short-term. So what you need is to find something else that is high-reward short-term. Try setting aside a little bit of time--even just 10 minutes--every day to do just one thing that you really enjoy. I wouldn't be too concerned that this is coming up so soon, because you are in a new and unfamiliar situation, and under a lot of stress--it makes sense that it might re-awaken a few old demons. Although I have no idea what your personal issue is, I definitely understand that it's not the sort of thing you'd like to mention to an advisor. But you don't necessarily have to tell them the whole story? You can just tell him/her that the pressure and change of situation have been "getting to you" or some other really general term for "i'm more stressed out than usual and it's affecting me." They're a psychology professor--I'm sure they've had other grad students go through the same thing.

 

[Psych!]

I am a first year doc student and was wondering... how realistic/difficult is it to transfer to another program?

 

[WisNeuro]

I am a first year doc student and was wondering... how realistic/difficult is it to transfer to another program?

If you're not going with a faculty member? Probably very difficult in most places. You'll be essentially just re-applying for grad school and starting over again. They may let you waive a couple courses though. But you'll still be starting from scratch research-wise most likely.

 

[Psych!]

If you're not going with a faculty member? Probably very difficult in most places. You'll be essentially just re-applying for grad school and starting over again. They may let you waive a couple courses though. But you'll still be starting from scratch research-wise most likely.

I was wait listed high at one program. If I messaged my POI from there, do you think that would be an good option? In doing so, do you think word could get back to my current program that I am looking elsewhere?

 

[WisNeuro]

Hmm, they would want to know the reason for the transfer, and it better be a good one. And, that POI would have to have a spot open And, you'd still probably have to wait until next year. And, it is possible that word could get back. Best option I can think of is get your masters and then move on. But, all depends on the specifics.

 

[icomeheresometimes]

Hello all-

To address some of the things brought up:

1. I don't really have problems with my advisor or lab. The research work I'm involved with is satisfying, reasonable, efficient.. My mentor is understanding, compassionate, reasonable, but still has an expectation for productivity. I don't really have an issue with any of this, as much as I do about the internal problems and doubts mentioned above.

Long term, I'm concerned about the effect that this ongoing stress (during school, and beyond) is going to have on my mental functioning, long term happiness and life satisfaction. I love the field and I am incredibly passionate about it, I just don't know if the competitive nature of this program and how much it extends beyond into a research career is really something that's healthy and mentally/emotionally sustainable.

Beyond this, I have been six years out of remission of a very personal, maladaptive behavior. Recently, being in my program/school/the personal adjustment experiences have been triggering thoughts of these behaviors. I have sought help but still continue to be concerned that 1) this is happening so early on, 2) whether I will be able to manage it effectively, 3) is this really a healthy career option for me if I can't manage it?

At this point, I'm having a lot of doubts and concerns. I can't talk to my advisor about the paragraph above (as they are unaware of this previous problem), so I'm really looking to sdn for some more advice and help.

Thanks so much for all the insight above.

Are you able to enter into some therapy yourself? There's usually some degree of therapeutic resources for grad students, since stress is obviously a common problem! It seems like the extra support may benefit you a lot. Given a past history of a maladaptive behavior, I'd think that it would be even more germane to you.

(I'm a first year right now, and while I do have a lot of work, I'm not feeling too overwhelmed by it. That's just my experience, though, and doesn't mean that you are out of the norm. Since it sounds like your relationship with your mentor/advisor is good, I would think seeking therapy to work out the internal issues and sticking with the program for now might be a good route?)

 

[teleisiontv]

It turns out that this was stress-induced. I remember thinking: "how the hell am I going to put up with four more years of this?" and just tried my best to take it one day at a time. Fortunately, after my first year, things got much better to the degree that the initial craziness is now a distant memory. I don't exactly know what made the difference for me; most of getting past it seemed to be just a natural human tendency to adjust to a situation. I suspect a part of it was developing my life outside of graduate school. I think this gave me a lot more space, as my self-worth, future, sense of happiness, etc. was not completely tied into my career.
My friend said this made me the standout student in my program, but I'm sure it made me a pleasant person to work with, which is important. Another thing that worked for me, I think, was my value of placing a premium on how I treated people.

 

[racho]

Hello everyone,

I'm a first year student, just started in my clinical (PhD) program. Recently, I've been having a lot of trouble with adjusting and my program as a whole.

Coming into graduate school, I was thrilled, excited, had a heavy research focus and was keen on going into academia for a potential research career.

Since starting my program, I've been having a lot of second thoughts about everything and my opinions have changed. I'm nearly 1500 miles away from home, depressed, and generally feeling overwhelmed and incapable of the work cut out for me. Previously an excellent student, I find myself behind in classes and unable to understand the material/ stay on top of the coursework despite reading, studying, etc. It genuinely feels like I don't have the aptitude for the coursework and I'm really struggling to stay on top. Beyond that, I feel exhausted by the competitive nature of the field (getting funded, internship process, applying for tenure track positions, etc) and don't know if it's sustainable for me long term.

At this point, the only thing I get genuine happiness from in my program is getting to administer research assessments and work hands on with patients. Other than that, I find myself emotionally drained, feeling generally incapable and quite frankly- too dumb to be in my program. It's hard to face this, as I am incredibly passionate about the field, love research and reading articles, and working with patients.

In coming here, I'm looking for any sort of advice about how to handle this... Am I perhaps in the wrong program? Are these normal adjustment issues? Any words of advice? Should I perhaps think about taking a leap of absence from the program?

I went through 2 years of a phd program and the stress didnt get better. I was a lab rat and felt like I wasnt doing the work I sought out to do. Despite biases against psyd programs (mostly from grad students, not the faculty), I transferred to an unfunded psyd program. The money hurts but better spent on a program I am happy with than medical bills from stress induced problems. I must say my mentor was not happy about my decision but ultimately supported me.