Programs to avoid

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As the application season rolls in, what type of programs should we avoid? Any warning signs to look out for? Any specific bad programs out there to look out for?
 
Texas Tech in Lubbock. That place is an utter disaster.
 
The vast majority of programs are all going to give you good training. Its important to look at how the residents view their program (are they happy to be there? are they friends with each other? do they enjoy coming to work?). Also, its a good idea to ask about what the residents are doing after training. Are they going into fellowships (look at what type, location, program) or mostly getting jobs? If you are set on going into academics, it would probably be more smart to look more seriously at big name academic programs. If you are looking for more private practice, there are actually a few residency programs that are run by private practice groups typically having great connections in the private world (not to say big academic programs aren't good options for getting private practice jobs). What you should try to avoid are programs that have malignant reputations and unhappy residents. But for the most part, anesthesia residents tend to be happy. Location should be at the top of your list in terms of prioritizing your needs. Hope this helps
 
Texas Tech is terrible. The only good thing about that place was the now defunct pain program. When I interviewed there one of my current attendings was on faculty there and interviewed me. The other day he said "Bobby, we both made the best decision we could make getting out of/staying away from there."
 
I avoided programs (in terms of ranking) in which residents generally felt as if they were always staying late carrying the workload of the institution. This is a fine line, but often these "workhorse" programs would pitch the fact that one would come out clinically deft. The reality seemed to be that the residents were not super happy, often felt overworked, and didn't feel that they were reading enough. You do need good numbers of cases, but I wonder how much value that add-on lap chole at 4 p.m. is in the grand scheme of things.

Ofcourse, case variety is important as well. Having good numbers of cases such as hearts, and places which do lots of regional were something I prioritized (simply because heart numbers are down at many institutions and some places just don't do a ton of regional from what I've gathered).
 
On the interview, I think a particularly revealing question to ask every resident you encounter is something like, "are you, or do you know of other residents who plan to stay on as attendings within this program?" Look at their eyes when you ask and listen for hesitations in their answers. Everyone will likely tell you they are happy and would choose the program again. Just like poker, the truth lies in the tell.
 
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chfo said:
Texas Tech in Lubbock. That place is an utter disaster.
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I was told they interviewed 200 people for the 4 spots this past year. The two interviews were extremely short, and the attendings seemed annoyed that they had to take 4 minutes out of their day to interview you. I got the impression that they were just trying to find a warm body to fill a slot.


amyl said:
idk about anything else there at texas tech but they lost their pain fellowship, which was previously a top program.
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Did they lose the whole fellowship program or just some spots? I know that was their big selling point when I interviewed there last year.
 
heard they lost the whole program but thats just gossip from other residents... idk anything for sure.

if you know what area of the country you want to be in then go to the best program there. if not go to the best program you can get into.
i have to respectfully disagree that it doesn't matter what program you go to. having the opportunity to work with people from other places has made me love my program. it was a real wakeup call to me. i have worked hard, been sleep deprived but i love my program. i am very appreciative of the education and experience which I have been given.
 
You'll get a sense for whether a program has what you consider red flags. There are people on this board who are at programs they love which I ranked at the bottom of my list. The most important opinion regarding a program is not that of semi-anonymous SDN posters, but that which you form at the interview.
 
I don't want to mention any specific programs, but there were definitely some places I interviewed at where the residents seemed unhappy, overworked or both. Also, and I agree with this even more now that I've started residency, you should look at the residents and see if they are people you would like to hang with at work and outside of work (are you married or single, like big/small cities, low-key or crazy partier, etc.) It is really nice to have people with the same interests around in your program.
 
I would avoid programs that have to farm out residents for multiple rotations to other hospitals. Others have thought that it was fine, but I disagree. You want to work at a full service program which gives you a broad and deep experience all the time. If you can manage a crashing CV patient and a bad trauma and a liver transplant, you can do anything. All of those things are on the menu for call at a large referral center.
Regional seems to be a very marketable skill these days as well. You don't need a fellowship if you trained at a regional heavy program. You could also consider trying to do an extra month or 2 of regional at a nearby big regional facility. This can be time consuming to set up, but CAN be done in a few months if everyone is on board.
 
BobBarker said:
Texas Tech is terrible. The only good thing about that place was the now defunct pain program. When I interviewed there one of my current attendings was on faculty there and interviewed me. The other day he said "Bobby, we both made the best decision we could make getting out of/staying away from there."
Click to expand...

I will try to address all of the responses from the above posts regarding Texas Tech since I am an actual resident at the program in question and can tell you the truth.

Yes, our program has had its fair share of issues. Approximately 2 years ago our former chairmen left and an interim chairman was placed until a permanent one could be hired. Unfortunately the interim had little experience with how an academic program should function which subsequently neglected the residency program and created hostility among the faculty. 3 of the then currently faculty left and went and got jobs at the University of Oklahoma. I know and have worked with and am very good friends with all 3 of them. Their comments that you have echoed are mostly accurate, however, only explain the past and NOT the current state of our program. Neither of them have been back to see how things have changed for the better.

How have they changed? Over a year ago now we hired Dr. John Wasnick from Saint Luke's Roosevelt where he was the co-chairmen and program director for the past 7 years. He is critically care trained, but better known for his skills in cardiac anesthesia. While at Saint Luke's he helped the program excel in aspects of academia as well as improve their ACGME accreditation process from a 3 year cycle to 5 years. He also helped mentor his residents who wrote and recently published, "First Aid" for Anesthesia. He also recently published with help from his residents "Cardiac Anesthesia and Transessophageal Echocardiography" which is the first book of its kind to include and interactive 3D DVD. Dr. Wasnick is also 1 of 6 Co-chairman for the World Anesthesia Congress. Having talked to some of his former residents, none were critical and all enjoyed having him as the director. Since he has been with us, we have had nothing but wonderful things to say about him. He is 100% pro-resident and is focused on helping us in any way possible. The morale since Dr. Wasnick has been contagious, not only within our department but within other surgical departments as well.

What is resident life like? Well we average 55-60 hours per week. We have 100% protected didactics every Friday morning 0650-1000 and 2-3 times per week in the afternoon for board prep, mock orals, echocardiography, lecture, etc. There is not a single malignant faculty member within the department. Everyone is easy to talk to and approachable. It's honestly one big family when it comes down to it. A huge benefit in my eyes when talking a bout a small program. We have a huge CRNA work force which allows us to pick the cases we do. The number of cases is staggering and subsequently puts you in a position to have all of your ACGME required cases completed before you ever start your CA-3 year (not many programs can say that). We have had a 100% board pass rate for 3 years running. Everyone person that has applied to a fellowship as far back as I can remember (usually 50-75% of the class) gets their top choice. So what don't we like, not much to be honest. You may hate Lubbock, which is understandable, especially if you are single. It's West Texas, so if you aren't into cowboys & Indians, or prairie dogs and dust storms, you may not love it that much. Heck you may not tolerate it that much. Hence the reason why prior to the last year we only interviewed 20-40 residents a year and didn't match many and why we interviewed ~140 last year and matched all 4 spots. Lubbock isn't a big hot spot geographically speaking. Now put is in any major city in the US (Seattle, Denver, Dallas, Miami, New York, etc. etc.) and we aren't even having this discussion. When it comes down to it, most residency programs are going to provide you with a good to great education. So, when medical students rank programs, geography ends up being a key determining factor in where they want to go. Unless you are from West Texas, North Easter New Mexico, or South Eastern Colorado, Lubbock TX probably isn't top of the list, unless you want to do Pain. In actuality though, the education is well above average and the case load is in excess.

Regarding the prior year's interview process during the transition one poster commented on the lack of interest displayed by faculty and the abruptness of the actual interview itself. Well, as mentioned before, when the staff left for Oklahoma, our staff numbers were down and coverage in the OR was left shorthanded. This unfortunately affected the timing of those interviews. Once again, this is a thing of the past. The thing to note is that there isn't any mention of negative comments about the residents during interviews. I think that speaks louder than anything.

Now regarding the pain program, it is NOT closed. The number of fellowship spots has simply been cut back. This is due to the states economy, which when trickled down to the education level, something has to give and cuts have to be made. Dr Miles Day and Gabor Racz, leaders of pain medicine, continue to teach and provide superior clinical training to the pain fellows in the program. The experience and training learned here, still and will always rival any of the other top programs in the country. So once again, the program is just scaled back, not closing.

I hope this has helped clear up what a few posters have previously experienced or were told what Texas Tech is like. In the past, sure, a lot of these things were true. However, now they are not even close to what Dr. Wasnick has helped create. I am more than willing to answer any and all questions about Texas Tech. Please feel free to p.m. me. When it all comes down to it, every program has their own sets of issues regardless of who they are, where they are located or how they are perceived by us (the outside world). Do your homework when applying, talk to the residents and base your decision on you gut. I wish everyone success in the field of anesthesiology. I love my job and wouldn't change the road I have traveled thus far to get that much closer to completing my training.
 
woah, ringworm's post is awesome. I have to say I have respect for texas tech residents' if they address all their concerns as well as ringworm did in that post.
 
Actually, I don't know anything about it. Could be a bad place...
 
Actually, I don't know anything about it. Could be a bad place...
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Avoid SUNY downstate like the plague!
 
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anondes said:
Avoid SUNY downstate like the plague! This is by far the most malignant program in the country - residents are constantly held back and their residencies extended six months because they disagree with the administration or had a bad test grade - the posts on scutwork are spot on - program has since gotten worse - case load has decreased - residents are being shipped out to more outside spots - all attendings are lazy - most are incompetent - program is akin to a military bootcamp where attgs + admin + ancillary staff take craps on you and you better take this with a smile or you may stay an extra six months - most residents are miserable here - chiefs are handpicked puppets bc they are meek, mute, turn cold shoulder to resident concerns, and nod yes to whatever the admin says - even the residency coordinator aka glorified secretary has power over the residents and she constantly has it out for the ones she doesn't like - over 5 from the current CA 2 class left last year - during the interview, you will only meet the people who say yes yes yes and they will try to sell you the place hard - they will show you kings county bc it is newly built, yet you only spend one or two months there during your entire residency - kings county is terrible btw- CRNA run OR where they dictate the management over the attgs - residents are dumped on by CRNAs and attendings never stick up for you - no teaching at any sites where you rotate - you are the workhorse and it is made clear that you are there to be a monkey who follows orders - step out of line and bang! six months - case load terrible - senior residents doing bunionectomies - please rotate here before you make any rash decisions - during the interview day, try to speak to as many residents as you can and hopefully someone will tell you the truth - the truth that is program is terrible and is only a good choice if you can't get in anywhere else...
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🙄
This post has some truth to it with some exaggerations. There 3 type of residents at Downstate: the happy ones, indifferent ones, and the ones that hate the place. I fall in the middle, its not a cake walk but its not as bad as its made out to be. It also hard on residents for which anesthesia wasn't there first choice, its not surprising if you don't end up liking it.
Some of the attendings like to teach ,others just walk in and out of the room, some are mean but a majority are pleasant, I'm pretty sure this is the case at alot of programs. This is NYC, if you go to most hospitals outside of Manhattan/Long Island the ancillary staff can be tough to deal with.
I think one of the pro's of Downstate is the cases and the patients you see. The three hospitals offer a diverse patient population, one population is relatively healthy and the other is on the brink of death. I have spent alot more time at Kings County than 2 months, and its quite an experience.True you mainly take call there in CA1-CA3 years, but call there is tough because your usually always working and the patients are sick. I also find the attendings there very willing to teach and more hands on than the other sites. Pro :The hours overall are good 60-70's, tons of lectures which are either hit or miss, your in NYC, and the residents overall are a good diverse group of people.
That being said it is somewhat stressful knowing you have to perform well on exams, but its keeps me readings. Also some of the hospitals operate differently, some are more geared towards teaching while others make you feel more like a factory worker. Overall I'm pretty happy with my decision to come here, there definitely days I hate the place but even the laziest residents leave here knowing their ****.

Remember when you on your interviews that your really only going to hear good things about a place so it can be hard to gauge what some programs are like, try to talk to as many residents as you can. :luck:
 
What programs are people avoiding in the Northeast?
 
Avoid University of Miami's program like the plague. The majority of the residents there are unhappy. If you go there to interview ask the residents whether or not they would choose that program if they had to do it again.
 
hey guys... I have to say when you are talking to the residents please take into account what year resident you are talking to... listen to the seniors more as they have been through the whole program and can tell you really whats up. some years at some places are tougher than others so take some people with a grain of salt for better or worse
 
amyl said:
hey guys... I have to say when you are talking to the residents please take into account what year resident you are talking to... listen to the seniors more as they have been through the whole program and can tell you really whats up. some years at some places are tougher than others so take some people with a grain of salt for better or worse
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But isn't that a sign that you don't really know what you are getting yourself into? Whether your year will be "tough" or tolerable?
 
Also remember that programs tend to be top vs bottom heavy, and some of them are in transition (which screws the current residents as they hit the heavy part at both ends). I have found that previously disenchanted residents go somewhere else for fellowship and come running back because they saw how great they had it in residency.
 
anes123 said:
Avoid University of Miami's program like the plague. The majority of the residents there are unhappy. If you go there to interview ask the residents whether or not they would choose that program if they had to do it again.
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false...its not easy but im enjoying it and would do it again
 
As a former med student at Miami who worked a ton with the anesthesia residents/attendings, I completely disagree. How much information do you have to go off to make such judgements? Leave these kind of opinions to people who have actually experienced things there. It's a great clinical program (maybe not the best for research and such) and Miami is a sweet city to live in. Also, if you're looking for a program with cushy hours...well...you probably shouldn't be doing anesthesia at all. Go to any of the top-tier anesthesia training programs (not saying Miami is top-tier, but...) and you will see the residents work hard at ALL of them (UCSF, Stanford, Brigham, MGH, etc).

anes123 said:
Avoid University of Miami's program like the plague. The majority of the residents there are unhappy. If you go there to interview ask the residents whether or not they would choose that program if they had to do it again.
Click to expand...
 
Avoid the university of arkansas like the plague. This program is in turmoil and going in the wrong direction. The residency program is run by program director who is out of the loop. The department has employed dictator in Dr. Jaffar(to tackle most of the administrative duties) who attempts to run the program with the same political tact as josef stalin. He apparently does not even work in the OR, but covers the icu. Residents have told me that he sides with surgeons all the time. He does not address resident issue at all and was once famously quoted as saying after a resident committed suicide " if you cant handle anesthesia you should have done dermatology". The residents are alienated constantly by the circulators/surgeons and their confidence is usually out the window by the 6 month of their CA1 year. The actual program director Dr. nopolitano is never around and works at the va without focusing on his administrative duties.
Residents have also noted that the heir apparent residency director Dr. linehart is famous for sending home crnas prior to the end of their shift and making pre-call residents cover their shift. Not exactly progress.
The residency office is run by two secretaries who are notorious for making all kinds of mistakes, if you are a minority good luck. The secretaries play favorites with fellow southerners and cover up for them. I know this is the south but the racial tension in this program is palpable. Doesn't seem condusive to learning .
I'm definelty not interviewing here.
 
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Concernedmember said:
Avoid the university of arkansas like the plague. This program is in turmoil and going in the wrong direction. The residency program is run by program director who is out of the loop. The department has employed dictator in Dr. Jaffar(to tackle most of the administrative duties) who attempts to run the program with the same political tact as josef stalin. He apparently does not even work in the OR, but covers the icu. Residents have told me that he sides with surgeons all the time. He does not address resident issue at all and was once famously quoted as saying after a resident committed suicide " if you cant handle anesthesia you should have done dermatology". The residents are alienated constantly by the circulators/surgeons and their confidence is usually out the window by the 6 month of their CA1 year. The actual program director Dr. nopolitano is never around and works at the va without focusing on his administrative duties.
Residents have also noted that the heir apparent residency director Dr. linehart is famous for sending home crnas prior to the end of their shift and making pre-call residents cover their shift. Not exactly progress.
The residency office is run by two secretaries who are notorious for making all kinds of mistakes, if you are a minority good luck. The secretaries play favorites with fellow southerners and cover up for them. I know this is the south but the racial tension in this program is palpable. Doesn't seem condusive to learning .
I'm definelty not interviewing here.
Click to expand...

all of the above + grain of salt = when the time comes interview there and find out for yourself
 
lilzelda2 said:
🙄
This post has some truth to it with some exaggerations. There 3 type of residents at Downstate: the happy ones, indifferent ones, and the ones that hate the place. I fall in the middle, its not a cake walk but its not as bad as its made out to be. It also hard on residents for which anesthesia wasn't there first choice, its not surprising if you don't end up liking it.
Some of the attendings like to teach ,others just walk in and out of the room, some are mean but a majority are pleasant, I'm pretty sure this is the case at alot of programs. This is NYC, if you go to most hospitals outside of Manhattan/Long Island the ancillary staff can be tough to deal with.
I think one of the pro's of Downstate is the cases and the patients you see. The three hospitals offer a diverse patient population, one population is relatively healthy and the other is on the brink of death. I have spent alot more time at Kings County than 2 months, and its quite an experience.True you mainly take call there in CA1-CA3 years, but call there is tough because your usually always working and the patients are sick. I also find the attendings there very willing to teach and more hands on than the other sites. Pro :The hours overall are good 60-70's, tons of lectures which are either hit or miss, your in NYC, and the residents overall are a good diverse group of people.
That being said it is somewhat stressful knowing you have to perform well on exams, but its keeps me readings. Also some of the hospitals operate differently, some are more geared towards teaching while others make you feel more like a factory worker. Overall I'm pretty happy with my decision to come here, there definitely days I hate the place but even the laziest residents leave here knowing their ****.

Remember when you on your interviews that your really only going to hear good things about a place so it can be hard to gauge what some programs are like, try to talk to as many residents as you can. :luck:
Click to expand...



Bottom line is that its a malignant program. Just google SUNY anesthesia and see the results. The program is 100% resident run. They are the work horses of the department. Attendings don't even give coffee or lunch breaks. The residents give all the lectures, all the M&M's, all the grand rounds, and all the workshops. They teach the attendings!

My advice from you is to stay way. It's worse than the plague.
 
Can we change the name of this thread to "avoid like the plague"? :laugh:
 
Remember even "top tier" programs can have really unhappy residents. Most are considered top tier because of what their department publishes, how they match fellows, but in fact have a very large work load and little teaching. I am at such a program. Lots of really happy residents are at a lot of lesser regarded programs in the eyes of academia Watch out for excuses that interviewers give you, and resident tell themselves on the interview trail. Phrases like "we don't teach formally but we get great clinical exposure" should make you look hard at a program. Interview where you want and ask the right questions It's not as if residents from top tier programs fill every fellowship and great job in the country. And there is a reason for that.
 
Hate to revive such a controversial subject but does anyone have any "avoid like the plague" programs specifically in the NorthEast? I heard Hahnemann/Drexel and Temple are two to avoid, for example. I didnt have enough time to ask why though.
 
Now that we are necrobumping for fun....
Northeast you say? Avoid Hopkins. Itsawesomenesswillleaveyoubreathlessandyou'dhavetobeputonavent.Youdon'twanttobeonavent.
Wait, that's not in the northeast. OK, avoid BWH. Forthesamereason.
/endofuselesspost
 
anes123 said:
Avoid University of Miami's program like the plague. The majority of the residents there are unhappy. If you go there to interview ask the residents whether or not they would choose that program if they had to do it again.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty happy with the program, obviously no program is perfect, but I would definitely choose Miami again, great clinical experience. PM if you have more specific questions, I'll be glad to answer them.
 
Concernedmember said:
Avoid the university of arkansas like the plague. This program is in turmoil and going in the wrong direction. The residency program is run by program director who is out of the loop. The department has employed dictator in Dr. Jaffar(to tackle most of the administrative duties) who attempts to run the program with the same political tact as josef stalin. He apparently does not even work in the OR, but covers the icu. Residents have told me that he sides with surgeons all the time. He does not address resident issue at all and was once famously quoted as saying after a resident committed suicide " if you cant handle anesthesia you should have done dermatology". The residents are alienated constantly by the circulators/surgeons and their confidence is usually out the window by the 6 month of their CA1 year. The actual program director Dr. nopolitano is never around and works at the va without focusing on his administrative duties.
Residents have also noted that the heir apparent residency director Dr. linehart is famous for sending home crnas prior to the end of their shift and making pre-call residents cover their shift. Not exactly progress.
The residency office is run by two secretaries who are notorious for making all kinds of mistakes, if you are a minority good luck. The secretaries play favorites with fellow southerners and cover up for them. I know this is the south but the racial tension in this program is palpable. Doesn't seem condusive to learning .
I'm definelty not interviewing here.
Click to expand...

I have to say, I didn't feel much of this was the case when interviewing there this year. I have my own likes/dislikes, but I didn't sense any malignancy about the program.

And the PD is Dr. Napolitano, not Nopolitano.

Posts like this frustrate me. I don't mind honest input about programs, but this is ridiculous.
 
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