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I use them and like them in prone cases for the "right case and right patient"
Anybody else like prone LMAs?
Anybody else like prone LMAs?
I would never consider any patient to be the right patient for placing an LMA in the prone position. What is so bad about placing an ETT that you are willing to risk losing the airway during the middle of the case? If the LMA dislodes, chances are you will not be able to get it back in place, you will have to flip supine, risk infection, and race against time before the patient desaturates.
I think it is a bad idea.
I would never consider any patient to be the right patient for placing an LMA in the prone position. What is so bad about placing an ETT that you are willing to risk losing the airway during the middle of the case? If the LMA dislodes, chances are you will not be able to get it back in place, you will have to flip supine, risk infection, and race against time before the patient desaturates.
I think it is a bad idea.
Lift them by their hair and slide it in. Always a great seal. I will only for go it if they are totally bald as i have nothing to tilt their head with. Blaz
What if airway complication happened? How can you defend youself? Is there any literature backing it up?
I use them and like them in prone cases for the "right case and right patient"
Anybody else like prone LMAs?
I don't see how this can be defended. I am still waiting to hear from others the advantage of a prone LMA over an endotracheal tube. If anyone out here knows someone that does this, please ask them this question.
It's not defendable, regardless of how the Aussies and Brits do things. I have few absolutes in the way I practice, but this is one of them. I think it's absolutely foolish. If the doc covering my room wants a prone LMA, they'll have to do the case themselves.
Prospective audit on the use of the LMA Supreme for airway management of adult patients undergoing elective orthopaedic surgery in prone position (Sharma V et al, 2010)
Results:
Mean (range) duration of surgery was 102min (15min-5hours). Regurgitation of gastric contents all via the drainage tube (n=4), was observed. No evidence of aspiration was found in these patients. No patient required rotation back into the supine position due to a complication during airway management. No increase in the incidence of problems with insertion of LMA Supreme in obese patients. Forty-two prone insertions of LMA Supreme were performed by anaesthesia trainees. First-pass success was 90.5%; 100% overall success. No incidence of failure to insert the LMA Supreme and establish and maintain PPV in the prone position.For the full paper visit doctorevidence.com/LMA
Hmmm...
Maybe I need to step outside of my box.
You doing these Blade?
It's not defendable, regardless of how the Aussies and Brits do things. I have few absolutes in the way I practice, but this is one of them. I think it's absolutely foolish. If the doc covering my room wants a prone LMA, they'll have to do the case themselves.
It's not defendable, regardless of how the Aussies and Brits do things. I have few absolutes in the way I practice, but this is one of them. I think it's absolutely foolish. If the doc covering my room wants a prone LMA, they'll have to do the case themselves.
As I have told others, just because someone does something and it works does not mean it was the right thing to do. All you need to do is lose one airway that should not have been lost and you are screwed. Try explaining to the family why you decided to put the LMA in instead.
As I have told others, just because someone does something and it works does not mean it was the right thing to do. All you need to do is lose one airway that should not have been lost and you are screwed. Try explaining to the family why you decided to put the LMA in instead.
By this time that medical center has probably done 400-500 prone cases with an LMA. (maybe more?)
The caliber of the posters in here is such that losing an airway is an unfathomable travesty.
The standard operating procedure for STUDS like us has been established already
400-500 does not convince me that it is safe.
When they've done 40-50,000 without an incident then I'll agree it is acceptable.
Are you saying losing an airway is not possible in the prone position with the LMA? I am not sure if that is what you really meant. If so, I disagree. The LMA can unseat and then you have to scramble to make it right.
For my practice I try to eliminate all the possible ways something can go wrong. I find this leads to a safer peri-operative experience for the patient. I still think that an LMA not seating right is a "possibility" that I don't want to take.
You are young. Green. It shows. Do it your way for now. After a few thousand more cases just try an LMA in a thin ASA 2 patient. It works. The key is no paralysis and someone you would consider doing a TIVA on in any position.
For now, you can tube 'em all.
I guess the AAs at Gwinnett Medical Center are all foolish. By this time that medical center has probably done 400-500 prone cases with an LMA. (maybe more?)
Just to clear things up, I've been doing this probably longer than you have. Just because I have 40 posts has nothing to do with my experience. Something just does not feel right about an unprotected airway in the prone position. A slightly less sore throat and a quicker "flip" time does not justify what I consider a risky practice. You can quote as many references that you want.
I would like to hear from others how many have been done at their institutions, and if there have been any issues.
Just to clear things up, I've been doing this probably longer than you have. Just because I have 40 posts has nothing to do with my experience. Something just does not feel right about an unprotected airway in the prone position. A slightly less sore throat and a quicker "flip" time does not justify what I consider a risky practice. You can quote as many references that you want.
I would like to hear from others how many have been done at their institutions, and if there have been any issues.
Actually, I looked up the sore throat thing before and found LMA cause more of it.
Maybe someone wants to look it up again to see if there is new data.
I placed an LMA in myself just for kicks some time ago. My "throat" hurt like crazy for a few days.
prone for a hemorrhoidectomy.
So Peer Reviewed Articles don't matter? What kind of practice are you in? How many years of experience? How many cases per year? Are you covering 4 rooms or more year after year in a busy practice?
I'm still learning new techniques every day. This includes more LMAs in the prone position. Does this mean I'd do an LMA for every patient going prone? No.
But, the longer I do this the more I realize the Brits do a lot of things right in anesthesia.
How the f**k (and why) do they do that? i've only seen them done in lithotomy
Nope I think they are silly.
That's what the surgeons from back in the day said to
LAPAROSCOPY
Time to
check yourself before you really
WRECK YOURSELF.
How the f**k (and why) do they do that? i've only seen them done in lithotomy
Yes. From time to time I've placed an LMA "prone" in a short case under 60 minutes in duration.
I've also rescued a few TIVA/MAC cases being done prone with an LMA.
I've got ZERO issues with an ETT in certain subgroups. Morbid Obesity with Sleep Apnea is just asking for trouble. But, a 45 kg 5'2" female going prone for a hemorrhoidectomy? LMA baby.