Proposal for First Public Chiropractic School

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Lawmakers' plan to create a chiropractic college gives Florida State U. a pain in the neck

From The Chronicle on Higher Education

By KATHERINE S. MANGAN


A proposal to open the country's first chiropractic college at a public university has professors at Florida State University bent out of shape.

Hundreds -- including about 70 medical professors -- have reportedly signed petitions against the college, and eight part-time medical professors have threatened to quit if it opens. The controversy has opened an angry debate between chiropractors and more-traditional doctors and raised questions about how higher-education decisions are made in Florida.

Ultimately, the battle is about legitimacy. Supporters hope that a public chiropractic college would give the profession respect, but opponents say such respect isn't deserved.

Last year the State Legislature, led by a well-connected chiropractor, approved $9-million a year for the chiropractic college before either the university or the state's Board of Governors had determined it was needed. Lawmakers have estimated that it will cost more than $60-million over the next five years to build the college. Now professors who view chiropractic medicine as "pseudoscience" are feeling manipulated, and they're fighting back.

They launched an aggressive media campaign to pressure the university's trustees to pull the plug on the proposed college. But instead of voting yes or no, the trustees opted this month to toss the political hot potato to the Board of Governors, which is scheduled to vote on the matter on January 27. The board could, in turn, vote to kill the college, or it could toss the matter back to the university for further review, and ultimately a vote. That could delay a decision for months, or even years.

The college's foes called the trustees "cowardly" for sidestepping the decision, while frustrated trustees said the board was giving them mixed messages about who was supposed to act first: the university or the Board of Governors.

Gov. Jeb Bush, a Republican, jumped into the debate on Tuesday, criticizing Florida State's handling of the matter and suggesting that the Legislature slash the $9-million appropriation for the chiropractic college to $1.9-million. He said that faculty members had been cut out of the debate, and that the university's trustees should have taken a stand on the college rather than turning to the Board of Governors.

The university's provost, Lawrence G. Abele, defended the trustees' action. "I don't think it's fair to ask our faculty to go through a long debate if the Board of Governors has no intention of approving it," he said.

Some of those board members have expressed strong reservations about the college, and there is widespread speculation that they will vote to kill the chiropractic college on January 27. If the board does vote in favor of the college, "the normal university processes would kick in, including a full debate by the faculty," Mr. Abele said.

Alien Studies Next?

Critics say a public university is no place for a chiropractic college, and they have been circulating a campus map that pokes fun at the proposal by suggesting that schools of extraterrestrial or past-life studies might come next.

Professors at the four-year-old College of Medicine -- the nation's youngest -- are particularly sensitive about the addition of an alternative-health-care college at a university whose medical school is not yet accredited. The two colleges would be separate, but medical professors who oppose the chiropractic school argue that it would taint the reputation of the entire university.

"Most of the faculty I speak to are saying this is absolutely ludicrous, and we'd be the laughingstock of the academic world," said Raymond E. Bellamy, an orthopedic surgeon and assistant professor of medicine who is leading the charge against the proposal. "Chiropractic is not science-based. Not one major university in North America has a connection with a chiropractic school. There's a reason for that."

This is not the first time that traditional medical and chiropractic educators have clashed over a proposed school. In 2001 York University, in Toronto, decided against affiliating with the Canadian Memorial Chiropractic College after faculty members objected.

At Florida State, supporters counter that doctors and medical professors are feeling threatened by a practice that is growing in popularity and could cut into their business. Lawmakers who approved the money for the college say it could attract millions of dollars in federal support for alternative medicine and be the nation's pre-eminent chiropractic college.

The Florida chiropractor who has championed the new school in the Legislature, Sen. Dennis L. Jones, has accused professors who oppose the college of fomenting rebellion on the campus by misleading their colleagues about the chiropractic profession. The professors have been joined in their protests by prominent critics of chiropractic medicine from outside of Florida -- doctors who, Senator Jones said, have a bone to pick with the profession.

"I have no problem with these people quitting," said Senator Jones, a Republican, referring to the eight part-time Florida State professors. "If they're spreading professional bigotry, they shouldn't be teaching students anyway."

Despite opponents' claims that manipulating necks and spines can injure patients, he argues that chiropractic care is safer than other forms of medicine, in part because it allows some patients to avoid risky surgery or potentially debilitating medications.

He pointed out that chiropractors are provided on 44 military bases in the United States, as well as in a growing number of Veterans Affairs hospitals. Some 15 million people in the country regularly visit chiropractors, according to the National Institutes of Health's Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine.

"If it's good enough for the U.S. military, you'd think it would be good enough for FSU," the senator said.

Another Florida chiropractor is more conciliatory. "I have so much respect for those medical professors," said Lance Armstrong, a chiropractor in Cocoa Beach, Fla., who serves as president of the Florida Chiropractic Association. "To lose one of them over this issue would be tragic."

He became a chiropractor after a rough landing in a B-52 left him with severe neck pain that medication did not relieve. A chiropractor helped him resume his first career, as a flight instructor, he said.

"I work closely with the medical profession," he continued, "but I strongly believe that there are some issues of musculoskeletal injury where the medical world doesn't know as much as we wish they did."

Scientific Debate

If approved, Florida State's chiropractic college would open at the university's Tallahassee campus in 2007 and eventually enroll up to 500 students, who would be required to already have a bachelor's degree. They would spend five years in the program, earning both a chiropractic degree and one of five public-health master's degrees -- in aging studies, food and nutrition, health-policy research, movement science, and public health -- currently offered at the university.

Graduates would be at least as qualified as their counterparts in the medical school to treat patients with nagging backaches, chiropractors argue.

Donald J. Krippendorf, president of the American Chiropractic Association, accuses the profession's critics of playing politics and putting the financial interests of doctors ahead of the best interests of patients.

"Doctors of chiropractic are specifically and uniquely qualified to diagnose and treat problems of the musculoskeletal system, with an education that includes more than 2,000 hours of study devoted to the human spine and nervous system," he wrote in a December 16 letter to the St. Petersburg Times. "Conversely, a 2002 study published in The Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery found that 78 percent of medical doctors failed to demonstrate basic competency in musculoskeletal medicine and that medical-school preparation in musculoskeletal medicine is inadequate."

Alan H. Adams, an administrator overseeing the development of chiropractic education at Florida State, said critics are misleading the public when they say that chiropractic medicine is not scientific or rigorous. But critics say a research university is no place for chiropractors because the field is not based on science.

"That argument doesn't hold water today," said Mr. Adams, a longtime chiropractic educator at the Los Angeles College of Chiropractic who was hired to oversee curriculum development at the new school. "The profession has been active in research for nearly 30 years," he said. "Chiropractors have been publishing articles in more than 70 medical and scientific peer-reviewed journals."

He said a public chiropractic college would provide an affordable and accessible education for Florida residents, who now have to pay private-school tuition if they want to become chiropractors. Florida has one private chiropractic school, a branch of Palmer College of Chiropractic, in Port Orange. It is one of 16 accredited chiropractic schools in the United States that enroll a total of about 10,000 students. Many more graduate from unaccredited colleges.

--Con't Next Post--
 
A public school would also open the profession's doors to more black and Hispanic students, supporters say. In Florida those groups represent about a quarter of the patients receiving chiropractic care, but fewer than 2 percent of the chiropractors, according to a study commissioned by the university.

This month a group representing about 500 Tallahassee-area physicians urged university and state officials to drop plans for the college, which David Stewart, president of the Capital Medical Society, an association of Tallahassee-area doctors, said had become "a political football."

Dr. Bellamy, the Florida State medical professor, said he has nothing against chiropractors. "This isn't a turf battle," he said. "I was leaving well enough alone until they wanted to bring a school on my campus, and that's where I draw the line."

He said hundreds of local doctors and Florida State faculty members, including the university's two Nobel Prize winners, have signed e-mail petitions questioning the proposed chiropractic college. He could not verify that number -- which others say is exaggerated -- because he said the responses were scattered in e-mail boxes around the campus.

In addition, he said that eight part-time Florida State professors have said they will no longer teach the university's medical students if the college is approved.

Ian W. Rogers, a plastic surgeon who donates part of his time to teaching Florida State medical students, is one of them. "Members of the Legislature have decided to impose the nation's first public chiropractic school on a university with a nonestablished, fledgling medical school, weakening its yet-to-be-established reputation," he wrote in an e-mail message to The Chronicle. "Are the graduating doctors going to be left vulnerable to future taunts from their colleagues nationwide?"

Edward J. Shahady, a professor of family medicine and rural health at Florida State, also worries that a chiropractic college could damage the reputation of the medical school, even though the schools would be separate. "No one wants to be a graduate of a school that people associate with pseudoscience," he said.

He also complained that faculty members were not consulted adequately or soon enough. "Academics are funny like that," he said. "We like to have some say in what happens at our university. At this point, we're almost at the 11th hour, trying to stay the execution."

Oversight Questions

The school's critics assert that state lawmakers have made veiled threats that they might cut money for the medical school if professors stand in the way of the chiropractic college.

Sen. James E. King Jr., a Jacksonville Republican, has been quoted as saying the Legislature would be "angry" if the chiropractic college were derailed. But he has denied charges that he has threatened to retaliate against medical professors if they succeed in killing the proposed college.

The Florida Board of Governors, which will step into the fray with a vote on the proposed school next week, was created in 2002 to oversee public universities. It replaced the former Board of Regents.

A group of educators, lawyers, and politicians sued the state's higher-education system in Leon County Circuit Court last month, asserting that the system had shirked its duties by not exercising its authority to oversee higher education and to prevent state lawmakers from pushing pet projects through the Legislature (The Chronicle, January 7).

The plaintiffs, including E.T. York, a former chancellor of the state-university system, cited the chiropractic school as an example of a program that was financed by the Legislature without first getting the approval of the Board of Governors.

Lawmakers who support the school counter that plans for a state chiropractic college began long before the Board of Governors was created.

Dr. Armstrong, the Florida chiropractor, said he still hopes to win over the skeptics. Working side by side, doctors and chiropractors could learn more about the strengths and limits of each profession, he said.

"If you took two Florida State football players who suffered serious injuries to the spine and one wished our care and the other didn't, and you followed their spinal health over the next 30 years, I think we'd come through gleaming," he said. "This is a glass ceiling, and it will be broken at FSU or another school. We hope it will be here."
 
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Chiropractic is thriving in spite of demagoguery

By Lance Armstrong

Tallahassee Democrat reporter Melanie Yeager's attempt to draw attention to the efforts of Raymond Bellamy, a Tallahassee orthopedic surgeon scheming to derail the new chiropractic college at Florida State University, carried an unfortunate headline. It more correctly should have been headlined: "Question of demagoguery."

Bellamy is a longtime and shrill foe of chiropractic, and he is clearly spewing his demagoguery in what is perhaps best characterized as a desperate personal crusade. To provide a dais from which to deliver his brand of outdated professional bigotry is an insult to the thoughtfulness of Democrat readers.

Chiropractic, the fastest-growing of all the major healing arts professions, is licensed and regulated in all 50 states, covered by major health care plans and included in federal government programs such as Medicare, Medicaid and the Veterans Administration. This is certainly not the kind of environment known for welcoming professionals trained in "pseudoscience" based on "gobbledygook."

Contrary to what Bellamy would like readers to believe, a growing body of scientific evidence overwhelmingly supports the efficacy, cost-effectiveness and safety of chiropractic care.

In fact, a summary of no less than 73 clinical trials involving spinal manipulation published just recently in the Annals of Internal Medicine published by the American College of Physicians - the nation's largest medical specialty professional society - attests to the effectiveness of chiropractic treatment in managing back pain with none of the trials having produced negative results.

Equally troubling is Bellamy's suggestion as to the "dangers" of chiropractic manipulation. While there is certainly some degree of risk involved in any procedure, chiropractic care offers patients significantly less risk in the treatment of cervical and back conditions and injuries than more "traditional" medical treatments that employ surgery and the use of prescription drugs.

Bellamy's concerns are ironic in light of a recent article in The Journal of the American Medical Association stating that medical care is the third leading cause of death in the U.S., causing 250,000 deaths every year, including 12,000 unnecessary surgeries, 7,000 medication errors in hospitals, 20,000 other errors in hospitals, 80,000 infections in hospitals and 106,000 deaths from non-error, negative side effects of drugs.

Perhaps what these critics fear most - and what motivates this specious 12th-hour attack - is that as chiropractic education and research continues to evolve and prosper, not only at FSU but also at other public universities around the world, it will offer patients the ability to make more informed decisions about their health care. At that point, it is entirely possible their first choice may not be traditional medical treatment.
 
http://www.fcachiro.org/media.asp


The Chiropractic Program at FSU
January 7th, 2005

"...The medical community is not against Chiropractic as just a few would have you believe. Most modern medical doctors see chiropractic as a valuable health profession. Many work together and alongside
chiropractors in a variety of settings, including clinical care and in scientific research and publication..."




Chiropractic Information by MGT of America
January 6th, 2005
Excerpts:

"...Multiple research studies have shown that, on the average, Chiropractic care is as effective or more effective, costs less and is safer (where safety is measured in terms of permanent disability or death from the treatment) than pharmaceutical and surgery treatment for lower back pain..."

"...Currently, more than 120 million Americans are using some form of Complementary and Alternative Medicine (CAM). In 1997, Americans spend over $30 billion per year on CAM therapies outside of traditional medical systems..."

"...The dominant reasons that Americans seek Chiropractic care is for lower back pain. Research has found that 84% of Americans experience acute and chronic lower back pain at some time during their life. (Walker, 2000)..."

"...A national survey in 1996 found that elder patients who used chiropractic care were less likely to use nursing home or hospital services, and used fewer prescription drugs, but more over-the-counter..."

"...NIH researchers have found that nearly 40% of chiropractic users had determined that conventional medical treatment would not help..."




Chronology of Events Leading to the Creation of the Chiropractic Program at Florida State University
January 6th, 2005

"...April, 1999 - Florida’s Legislature directs in proviso of the General Appropriations Act for FY 1999-2000 in specific appropriation 189-192 that Florida’s Board of Regents and the Post Secondary Education Planning Commission conduct an exhaustive study on the need for public chiropractic education in Florida...."


Implementation Plan for a School of Chiropractic Education at Florida State University
December 20th, 2000

"...During the 2000 session, the Florida Legislature considered the findings of a report studying the need for and feasibility of a school of chiropractic education at Florida State University (FSU). This legislatively mandated report was conducted by the State University System's Board of Regents and the Florida Department of Education's Postsecondary Education Planning Commission. The Legislature responded to the report by directing FSU to develop an implementation plan for the establishment of a school of chiropractic education at FSU...."




Wilk v. AMA Case Comes To An End-Court Order, Statements Published As Part Of Agreement
January 13th, 1992

"...The Material on these two facing pages is being published in compliance with a court agreement reached in the Wilk v. AMA case..."




AMA Found Guilty of Conspiracy: Critical Quotes from the Appeals Court Decision
February 7th, 1990


"...THE AMA HAS BEEN FOUND GUILTY OF AN ILLEGAL CONSPIRACY TO DESTROY THE COMPETITIVE PROFESSION OF CHIROPRACTIC. THE MEMBERS OF WHICH WERE FOUND TO "OUTPERFORM" MEDICAL PHYSICIANS IN CERTAIN SEGMENTS OF THE HEALTH CARE MARKET. THE QUOTATIONS HEREIN ARE FROM THE OPINION OF THE SEVENTH CIRCUIT WHICH WAS ISSUED ON FEBRUARY 7,1990..."




AMA Found Guilty of Conspiracy: Full Text of the U.S. Court of Appeals Decision
February 7th, 1990

"...Appeal from the United States District Court for the Northern District of Illinois, Eastern Division. No. 76 C 3777--Susan Getzendanner, Judge.
Argued December 1, 1988--Decided February 7, 1990..."

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@2

http://www.c3r.org/Research.htm


The NIH/NCCAM Center grant supports 19 research projects.

Please click on a Principal Investigator's name to view the original project abstract and a project update.

Gert Bronfort, DC, PhD
Cost-Effectiveness of Chiropractic Care
A Pilot Study of Conservative Therapies for Sciatica
Conservative Treatments for Neck Pain: A Pilot Study

Lisa A. Caputo, DC
Changes in Health Measures in HIV+ Chiropractic Patients


Donald Dishman, DC, MSc
Spinal Manipulation and Motor Systems Physiology

Roni Evans, DC
Patient Expectations of Treatment

Anita Ruth Gross, MSc, BScPT, Grad. Dip. Manip. Ther.
Conservative Management for Neck Disorders: A Series of Cochrane Reviews

Mitchell Haas, DC
Dose-Response in Chiropractic Care for LBP
Clinical Utility of Cervical End-Play Assessment

Cheryl K. Hawk, DC, PhD
Evaluation of a Chiropractic Manual Placebo
Multisite Pilot of Chiropractic for Chronic Pelvic Pain

Stephen H. Injeyan, DC, PhD
Studies on Effects of Spinal Manipulation on the Immune Response

Partap S. Khalsa, DC, PhD
Facet Joint Capsule Strains during Spinal Manipulation
Facet Capsule Biomechanics from Physiological Spinal Motion

Steven J. Kirstukas, PhD
Load Distribution during Bilateral Manipulation

William C. Meeker, DC, MPH
Chiropractic Best Practices for Chronic Low Back Pain

Joel G. Pickar, DC, PhD
Changes in Paraspinal Muscle Spindle Sensitivity
Effect of Vertebral Loading on Sympathetic Nerve Regulation.

Veronica M. Sciotti, Ph.D.
Trigger Point Metabolic and Microcirculatory Imbalances

Esther Suter, PhD
Changes in Muscle Excitability after Spinal Manipulation


The NIH/NCCAM Center grant supports 19 research projects.

Please click on a Principal Investigator's name to view the original project abstract and a project update.

Gert Bronfort, DC, PhD
Cost-Effectiveness of Chiropractic Care
A Pilot Study of Conservative Therapies for Sciatica
Conservative Treatments for Neck Pain: A Pilot Study

Lisa A. Caputo, DC
Changes in Health Measures in HIV+ Chiropractic Patients


Donald Dishman, DC, MSc
Spinal Manipulation and Motor Systems Physiology

Roni Evans, DC
Patient Expectations of Treatment

Anita Ruth Gross, MSc, BScPT, Grad. Dip. Manip. Ther.
Conservative Management for Neck Disorders: A Series of Cochrane Reviews

Mitchell Haas, DC
Dose-Response in Chiropractic Care for LBP
Clinical Utility of Cervical End-Play Assessment

Cheryl K. Hawk, DC, PhD
Evaluation of a Chiropractic Manual Placebo
Multisite Pilot of Chiropractic for Chronic Pelvic Pain

Stephen H. Injeyan, DC, PhD
Studies on Effects of Spinal Manipulation on the Immune Response

Partap S. Khalsa, DC, PhD
Facet Joint Capsule Strains during Spinal Manipulation
Facet Capsule Biomechanics from Physiological Spinal Motion

Steven J. Kirstukas, PhD
Load Distribution during Bilateral Manipulation

William C. Meeker, DC, MPH
Chiropractic Best Practices for Chronic Low Back Pain

Joel G. Pickar, DC, PhD
Changes in Paraspinal Muscle Spindle Sensitivity
Effect of Vertebral Loading on Sympathetic Nerve Regulation.

Veronica M. Sciotti, Ph.D.
Trigger Point Metabolic and Microcirculatory Imbalances

Esther Suter, PhD
Changes in Muscle Excitability after Spinal Manipulation


The NIH/NCCAM Center grant supports 19 research projects.

Please click on a Principal Investigator's name to view the original project abstract and a project update.

Gert Bronfort, DC, PhD
Cost-Effectiveness of Chiropractic Care
A Pilot Study of Conservative Therapies for Sciatica
Conservative Treatments for Neck Pain: A Pilot Study

Lisa A. Caputo, DC
Changes in Health Measures in HIV+ Chiropractic Patients


Donald Dishman, DC, MSc
Spinal Manipulation and Motor Systems Physiology

Roni Evans, DC
Patient Expectations of Treatment

Anita Ruth Gross, MSc, BScPT, Grad. Dip. Manip. Ther.
Conservative Management for Neck Disorders: A Series of Cochrane Reviews

Mitchell Haas, DC
Dose-Response in Chiropractic Care for LBP
Clinical Utility of Cervical End-Play Assessment

Cheryl K. Hawk, DC, PhD
Evaluation of a Chiropractic Manual Placebo
Multisite Pilot of Chiropractic for Chronic Pelvic Pain

Stephen H. Injeyan, DC, PhD
Studies on Effects of Spinal Manipulation on the Immune Response

Partap S. Khalsa, DC, PhD
Facet Joint Capsule Strains during Spinal Manipulation
Facet Capsule Biomechanics from Physiological Spinal Motion

Steven J. Kirstukas, PhD
Load Distribution during Bilateral Manipulation

William C. Meeker, DC, MPH
Chiropractic Best Practices for Chronic Low Back Pain

Joel G. Pickar, DC, PhD
Changes in Paraspinal Muscle Spindle Sensitivity
Effect of Vertebral Loading on Sympathetic Nerve Regulation.

Veronica M. Sciotti, Ph.D.
Trigger Point Metabolic and Microcirculatory Imbalances

Esther Suter, PhD
Changes in Muscle Excitability after Spinal Manipulation
 
Wow...the above sounds interesting. Can't wait to hear the outcome. I googled FSU and Chiropractics and came across something else interesting on the following website (http://www.chirobase.org/03Edu/fsu.html) .

"To be science-based, a chiropractic school must be completely free of "subluxation" theory and its associated misbeliefs and train its students in the use of manipulation and the physical treatment modalities that are used by physical therapists. If chiropractors are to be trained as "neuromusculoskeletal specialists" who function as independent practitioners in a capacity beyond that of physical therapists, it might be necessary to include training in use of prescription medication and certain invasive diagnostic procedures. Such chiropractors would work much like physiatrists (medical doctors who specialize in physical medicine and rehabilitation), with emphasis of manipulation and physical treatment methods. Either way, there would be duplication of existing medical services. However, without a fundamental change in the nature of its chiropractic teachings, FSU would graduate "alternative" practitioners who display their university degree as evidence that subluxation-based chiropractic offers a rational approach to health care."

Pay particular attention to the info in bold...isn't that a fair definition of Osteopathic Medicine? I have a gut feeling if chiropractors were going to be trained as mentioned above, the would not only find resistance from allopathic programs as they are now, but quite a bit of resistance from osteopathic medicine as well. I think they sumarized the whole issue in one sentence "...there would be a duplication of exisiting medical services."

Whatcha think?
 
in other words:
Turf guarding

This isn't the first time.

See the Wilk vs AMA links above.
 
From a historical perspective, I wonder what the reactions and responses were when the private Michigan College of Osteopathic Medicine (est 1964) became public and associated with MSU in 1970?

It was the first public osteopathic school AND the first to be affliated with a major university

Of course, establishing MSU-COM lead to new public osteopathic schools with major university association all within a relatively short time period

OSU-COM (est 1972, first class 1974)
OU-COM (est 1975, first class 1976)
UMDNJ-SOM (est 1976, first class 1977)
TCOM/UNTHSC (est 1966, place under direction of North Texas State University in 1975)

Source: http://history.aoa-net.org/Education/collegehist.htm
 
DOit-
chirobase is not an objective source for accurate information on most things. They are embellishing the facts to meet their agenda(to smear chiropractic).
For the accurate proposal of the FSU school, go to:

http://www.fcachiro.org/media.asp


The Chiropractic Program at FSU
January 7th, 2005

"...The medical community is not against Chiropractic as just a few would have you believe. Most modern medical doctors see chiropractic as a valuable health profession. Many work together and alongside
chiropractors in a variety of settings, including clinical care and in scientific research and publication..."

Contrary to what chirobase would have readers believe, med rx and invasive procedures(above those already in place) are NOT in the proposal.
 
I fail to see what the big deal is. What you have to do is look at the purpose of state universities. The first purpose is to offer an education and training for residents of the state (as evidenced by the difference in in-state vs. out-of-state tuition), the second purpose is to train people to fill needs in the state. Clearly there must be a desire by the populace to go to DC's, and the school feels that by training these DC's they will be helping fill that void. What we as DO's should be focusing on is why more people feel the need to go to them and why more people know about what they do. There are about 50,000 chiro's in the US which is similar to the number of DO's. Why is it that almost everyone in the US can tell you what a chiro is and very few can distinguish what a DO is? What is wrong with our PR? Why do people seek out DC's? I'll answer this questions. It is because they have nowhere else to turn for this type of treatment. Less and less DO's are doing OMT and as a result we are seeing more and more people searching for DC's. Florida's population probably wants to see chiro's because they have no experience with OMT. There are 2 osteopathic schools in Florida already! I would argue that if we got out our message better and more of us performed OMT we wouldn't have to worry about DC's as much.
 
DORoe said:
I fail to see what the big deal is. What you have to do is look at the purpose of state universities. The first purpose is to offer an education and training for residents of the state (as evidenced by the difference in in-state vs. out-of-state tuition), the second purpose is to train people to fill needs in the state. Clearly there must be a desire by the populace to go to DC's, and the school feels that by training these DC's they will be helping fill that void. What we as DO's should be focusing on is why more people feel the need to go to them and why more people know about what they do. There are about 50,000 chiro's in the US which is similar to the number of DO's. Why is it that almost everyone in the US can tell you what a chiro is and very few can distinguish what a DO is? What is wrong with our PR? Why do people seek out DC's? I'll answer this questions. It is because they have nowhere else to turn for this type of treatment. Less and less DO's are doing OMT and as a result we are seeing more and more people searching for DC's. Florida's population probably wants to see chiro's because they have no experience with OMT. There are 2 osteopathic schools in Florida already! I would argue that if we got out our message better and more of us performed OMT we wouldn't have to worry about DC's as much.


I agree with you. 👍

So far, AOA's only idea was to write to TV shows have them make all the doctors D.O.'s (which didn't work.)
 
OSUdoc08 said:
I agree with you. 👍

So far, AOA's only idea was to write to TV shows have them make all the doctors D.O.'s (which didn't work.)
They also have grant money reserved for PR projects that State Osteopathic associations can apply for, but very few do.

SUMMARY OF MOTIONS, ACTIONS, AND DECISIONS After reviewing the AOA PR Grant final reports from 2003-2004, and a motion was passed to approve 2004-2005 applications from the Kentucky Osteopathic Medical Association ($5,000), Minnesota Osteopathic Medical Society ($10,000) and the New Mexico Osteopathic Medical Association ($5,000). Due to the low number of applications for fiscal year 2005, it was recommended that AOA PR staff come up with a plan to more widely promote the AOA PR grant, including development of a brochure and the use of the OPAN.
 
AwesomeO-DO said:
They also have grant money reserved for PR projects that State Osteopathic associations can apply for, but very few do.

SUMMARY OF MOTIONS, ACTIONS, AND DECISIONS After reviewing the AOA PR Grant final reports from 2003-2004, and a motion was passed to approve 2004-2005 applications from the Kentucky Osteopathic Medical Association ($5,000), Minnesota Osteopathic Medical Society ($10,000) and the New Mexico Osteopathic Medical Association ($5,000). Due to the low number of applications for fiscal year 2005, it was recommended that AOA PR staff come up with a plan to more widely promote the AOA PR grant, including development of a brochure and the use of the OPAN.

What good is a brochure going to do anyway if it is only found in a D.O.'s office?

The best way to improve knowledge is by word-of-mouth. (In my opinion.)
 
OSUdoc08 said:
What good is a brochure going to do anyway if it is only found in a D.O.'s office?

The best way to improve knowledge is by word-of-mouth. (In my opinion.)
true-dat... the AOA is pretty much only concerned with keeping it's member numbers up and making it look like they are representing the best interest of said members
 
AwesomeO-DO said:
true-dat... the AOA is pretty much only concerned with keeping it's member numbers up and making it look like they are representing the best interest of said members

Including doing as much as possible to prevent D.O.'s from becoming ACGME certified.
 
OSUdoc08 said:
Including doing as much as possible to prevent D.O.'s from becoming ACGME certified.
but back to the topic of DC at FSU, this idea could only be better for the osteopathic community if it was a DO school being added. Still, it would promote manipulative medicine, and the AOA could feed off of this publicity to increase in awareness of osteopathy.
 
AwesomeO-DO said:
but back to the topic of DC at FSU, this idea could only be better for the osteopathic community if it was a DO school being added. Still, it would promote manipulative medicine, and the AOA could feed off of this publicity to increase in awareness of osteopathy.


True, I also am not very happen with the AOA being against certifying us ACGME..........if they don't want DO's to get into those residencies and fellowships they need to offer more of their own. I would go through say a 7 year AOA neurosurgery residency just to be denied to an AOA fellowship spot when I'm done. Like I keep saying we learn differently up to year 4 then we are all interns/residents our lives suck and we work out asses off attempting to not get sued in the process.
 
guys what is this saying to us. OMT. ppl are wanting more and more OMT. these lousy symptoms everyone gets, easyily fixed by and perfect match for OMT. couple that with a complete medical education, what could be better? guess who that is - DO's!!!!! why are not more DO's doing OMT and charging for it? it is very lucrative! 😕 i kno im going to.
 
cooldreams said:
guys what is this saying to us. OMT. ppl are wanting more and more OMT. these lousy symptoms everyone gets, easyily fixed by and perfect match for OMT. couple that with a complete medical education, what could be better? guess who that is - DO's!!!!! why are not more DO's doing OMT and charging for it? it is very lucrative! 😕 i kno im going to.


That is true, however, not all of us are going into primary care and it's pretty hard to do OMT on a surgeon or cardiologists schedule...........plus you have to prove to people you are good at OMT not just that took a class in it during your first two years, which can be difficult in an area that isn't used to OMT or if they already have an established OMT specialist. Also, not all hospitals will pay you for the table and time you would use if you aren't in private practice. Just some arguments I've heard from people out their practicing now about why they don't do more OMT.
 
cremaster2007 said:
That is true, however, not all of us are going into primary care and it's pretty hard to do OMT on a surgeon or cardiologists schedule...........plus you have to prove to people you are good at OMT not just that took a class in it during your first two years, which can be difficult in an area that isn't used to OMT or if they already have an established OMT specialist. Also, not all hospitals will pay you for the table and time you would use if you aren't in private practice. Just some arguments I've heard from people out their practicing now about why they don't do more OMT.

cool, check this out.

https://www.blockcenter.com/pages/pages_about.asp

sure, as a full time surgeon, you have next to no time to devote to omt. but the problem im trying to hit at, is that people alsmost seem scared of primary care because they "wont make as much as a surgeon" but if you are using omt in a private practice, you should come very close or possiblly even pass a surgeons income.

income income... yadda yadda... that is great and all, but i really believe omt to be a godsend. i think today we are devoting too much time and dependance on "miracle" drugs. drugs do have their place, but i think it is over used. look at how many people die from doctor ordered drug prescriptions every year, and then how many die from omt? stark contrast... perhaps evaluate it in a percentage, still stark contrast.

i dunno guys... i think some of the stuff the AOA is doing is because they seem to be naive in the world. look at Dr Still, how did he become so well known? - word of mouth. as DOs we typically see twice the number of patients that an MD would, so we should have great PR.
 
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