proposed legislation to allow CRNA’s to supervise AA’s ?

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coffeebythelake said:
Considering education and training of CRNA = AA this js Clownish nonsense. Spearheaded by AANA no doubt.

Perhaps ASA should sponsor a bill where AA supervises CRNA in WY
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Of course it was. This got put in as an amendment to the bill at the last minute by the rabid anti-AA CRNA folks at the AANA. CAA's can't bill for services under a CRNA, only a (physician) anesthesiologist, so it effectively makes it impossible to hire CAAs in Wyoming. I'm not active in CAA legislative efforts and I'm sure there's more back-story there that I'm not privy to.

It's an absolute joke that the Wyoming Board of Nursing would be the entity that would allow CRNAs to supervise CAAs. Note that the primary argument CRNAs use for not participating in education of AA students is that they're not familiar with CAA practice and would not have the knowledge base regarding their scope of practice and capabilities necessary to train them. It's all smokescreen. Also note - the original post above is copied from the Anesthesiology subReddit, which copied it from the Srna subReddit.

Hopefully this gets rectified in the Wyoming House and then gets fixed in conference committee. If any of you have Wyoming legislative contacts, please contact them and point out the absurdity of the CRNA-added amendment.
 
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They never actually intend to supervise AA. And no AA would ever denigrate themselves to accept such a position. The AANA is doing this for ego and to make themselves seem more important than they are. To blur the distinction between physician and nurse. Notice that nothing changed with their training... Still 1/4 the hours of a physician. Everything AANA does is based on politics not actual skill or qualification.
 
coffeebythelake said:
They never actually intend to supervise AA. And no AA would ever denigrate themselves to accept such a position. The AANA is doing this for ego and to make themselves seem more important than they are. To blur the distinction between physician and nurse. Notice that nothing changed with their training... Still 1/4 the hours of a physician. Everything AANA does is based on politics not actual skill or qualification.
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And yet there's anesthesiologists that work for CRNAs....
 
If ASA had any teeth they would sue AANA. Study their behavior and policy, and find reasonable legal ground and do it.
Dedicate 10% annual of budget on this.
Heck I’d contribute to it.
It would be a worthwhile effort.

The above is a joke.
 
I'm all for it. CRNAs can supervise AAs. We can be solo and do our own cases.
 
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centdoc said:
There are a couple of crNa owned locums companies that hire physicians. Anyone willing to do that is a fool.
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So CRNAs aren’t allowed to run a business? If they build rapport with their colleagues and want to build a business, nothing wrong with that. They are basically just a staffing agency at that point, they aren’t telling you how to practice medicine. I don’t really view them as CRNAs but view them as business owners. If they treat me fairly then I have no issues.
 
AppTrail said:
So CRNAs aren’t allowed to run a business? If they build rapport with their colleagues and want to build a business, nothing wrong with that. They are basically just a staffing agency at that point, they aren’t telling you how to practice medicine. I don’t really view them as CRNAs but view them as business owners. If they treat me fairly then I have no issues.
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??

Anyone can run a business. That’s not the point.

The issue is that when you employ and exert control over someone who is superior to you in terms of training and work ethic and dictate terms thinking they’re equal. It’s riddled with conflict.

Worse yet is when you intentionally keep things vague.

I always find it interesting that CRNAs like to have this need to notify everyone of their presence and how great they are (small man syndrome), but when it comes to naming their companies and having transparency in their leadership and operations, it’s generally absent. They know this inherently that’s why. The recruitment of physicians is by deception or incentive only. The job doesn’t organically sell by itself.

They do this because they need MDs to be on medical staff which by definition only apply to physicians.

We all know what happens when there is a CRNA only group.
 
AKMD_1984 said:
??

Anyone can run a business. That’s not the point.

The issue is that when you employ and exert control over someone who is superior to you in terms of training and work ethic and dictate terms thinking they’re equal. It’s riddled with conflict.
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Like hospital administrators or AMCs are any better? You’re basically saying you’re only ok to work under a physician and a non-physician is not ok?
Plenty of physician owners who are shady. If a CRNA owner staffing agency is equitable and fair and exhibits good morals and ethics then I have no issues
 
AppTrail said:
Like hospital administrators or AMCs are any better? You’re basically saying you’re only ok to work under a physician and a non-physician is not ok?
Plenty of physician owners who are shady. If a CRNA owner staffing agency is equitable and fair and exhibits good morals and ethics then I have no issues
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1. I’m an independent physician and do not have a boss. I work for myself.
I get paid for my labor per time or per day or per production. I’m not bound by any employment contracts.
I only work for established MD only practices or do my own cases or strict medical direction.
2. So you’re saying that it’s ok to do it because AMCs and admins do it too? You always have a choice especially in today’s market. What you meant to inadvertently say that it’s too convenient and easy for you to sellout.
 
AppTrail said:
You’re basically saying you’re only ok to work under a physician and a non-physician is not ok?
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Yes. I'm not "basically saying" it, I am saying it definitively. I will NEVER work for a CRNA run company and look down on anesthesiologist sell-outs who do with extreme prejudice. Let me know if you're one of those clowns so I can block you immediately.
 
And there is a world of difference between AA and CRNAs.
I find the above quite appalling actually but not really surprising coming from AANA. Only they would try to exert authority on another midlevel given that they’re midlevel providers themselves.

You’d never see AA’s try to pull this.

AAs - the way they’re are trained and conduct their education, training, overall behavior and mindset is very different.

They do not antagonize physicians.

I have a lot of experience with both. From residency training to recent practice.
 
AKMD_1984 said:
??

Anyone can run a business. That’s not the point.

The issue is that when you employ and exert control over someone who is superior to you in terms of training and work ethic and dictate terms thinking they’re equal. It’s riddled with conflict.

Worse yet is when you intentionally keep things vague.

I always find it interesting that CRNAs like to have this need to notify everyone of their presence and how great they are (small man syndrome), but when it comes to naming their companies and having transparency in their leadership and operations, it’s generally absent. They know this inherently that’s why. The recruitment of physicians is by deception or incentive only. The job doesn’t organically sell by itself.

They do this because they need MDs to be on medical staff which by definition only apply to physicians.

We all know what happens when there is a CRNA only group.
Click to expand...

Ask any patient if they want their anesthesia delivered by a physician or a nurse and see what the answer is.
 
AppTrail said:
Like hospital administrators or AMCs are any better? You’re basically saying you’re only ok to work under a physician and a non-physician is not ok?
Plenty of physician owners who are shady. If a CRNA owner staffing agency is equitable and fair and exhibits good morals and ethics then I have no issues
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It comes down to: Do you care who is ****ing you? For some people it doesn't matter- abusive senior partner, Hospital employer, AMC Employer , CRNA employer. For some of us the CRNA employer is a lower circle of Hell than the others.
 
Dr. Rude said:
It comes down to: Do you care who is ****ing you? For some people it doesn't matter- abusive senior partner, Hospital employer, AMC Employer , CRNA employer. For some of us the CRNA employer is a lower circle of Hell than the others.
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This is the point I was trying to make. I’ve worked for a physician owned “partnership” group and been dragged along. Never again. So bad that we couldn’t staff rooms cause of the physician greed and difficulty recruiting.

CRNA-owned group paid great salary, had no trouble hiring CRNAs/staffing rooms, continually giving pay raises when appropriate. This is 1:3 medical direction, not 1:6 or 1:8. Physicians still did blocks/lines, etc.

But some people would rather suffer a toxic physician owned group cause their egos are too big. Suffer away…
 
AppTrail said:
This is the point I was trying to make. I’ve worked for a physician owned “partnership” group and been dragged along. Never again. So bad that we couldn’t staff rooms cause of the physician greed and difficulty recruiting.

CRNA-owned group paid great salary, had no trouble hiring CRNAs/staffing rooms, continually giving pay raises when appropriate. This is 1:3 medical direction, not 1:6 or 1:8. Physicians still did blocks/lines, etc.

But some people would rather suffer a toxic physician owned group cause their egos are too big. Suffer away…
Click to expand...
I gotta wonder where in the world there's a CRNA-owned group that runs true 1:3 medical direction.
 
AppTrail said:
This is the point I was trying to make. I’ve worked for a physician owned “partnership” group and been dragged along. Never again. So bad that we couldn’t staff rooms cause of the physician greed and difficulty recruiting.

CRNA-owned group paid great salary, had no trouble hiring CRNAs/staffing rooms, continually giving pay raises when appropriate. This is 1:3 medical direction, not 1:6 or 1:8. Physicians still did blocks/lines, etc.

But some people would rather suffer a toxic physician owned group cause their egos are too big. Suffer away…
Click to expand...
Failure.
 
There are anesthesia groups and locums groups that are CRNA owned on Gaswork and other job sites. One group advertised in LA area seemed like an anesthesiologist run group as their anesthesia website said "Dr. So-and-So" and his wife as the managing partners. Upon this guy's LinkedIn profile, he writes that he is a "nurse anesthesiologist" in California. I almost believed that he was a physician anesthesiologist from his website as he addresses himself as "Dr" and trained in prestigious program (but didn't specify that it was a CRNA program), he does have one of those RN phD things which technically is doctorate. In the CRNAs minds they are equivalent MD and phD
 
IVdoc said:
There are anesthesia groups and locums groups that are CRNA owned on Gaswork and other job sites. One group advertised in LA area seemed like an anesthesiologist run group as their anesthesia website said "Dr. So-and-So" and his wife as the managing partners. Upon this guy's LinkedIn profile, he writes that he is a "nurse anesthesiologist" in California. I almost believed that he was a physician anesthesiologist from his website as he addresses himself as "Dr" and trained in prestigious program (but didn't specify that it was a CRNA program), he does have one of those RN phD things which technically is doctorate. In the CRNAs minds they are equivalent MD and phD
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In the world of scam artists, crNas are ate top.
 
AKMD_1984 said:
So which company is this which is Crna owned, operated and managed with decisions on hiring and firing of MDs but allows authority from physicians over Crnas.

Please name that company so we can learn.
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Anesthesia Solutions LLC is one that comes to mind
 
The obvious next step is a group of AAs owning a hospital group of MDAs
 
PpfSuxTube said:
The obvious next step is a group of AAs owning a hospital group of MDAs
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Yeah, don't think that's gonna happen. There are AA-owned locum tenens placement companies, but they don't do any kind of group management. Strictly placement.
 
AppTrail said:
majority are but not always. I know from personal experience. But whatever, believe me or not
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So again...

I gotta wonder where in the world there's a CRNA-owned group that runs true 1:3 medical direction.

There is no such animal that I'm aware of anywhere in the US.
 
I believe this is essentially a CRNA owned practice.

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Guide Anesthesia is a group of over 180 CRNAs and Physicians providing anesthesiology services throughout Arizona, covering:

- Tertiary and Community Hospitals

- Multi and Single Specialty ASCs

- Dentist and Surgeon Offices

Job Description:​

Guide Anesthesia is seeking a skilled and experienced Anesthesiologist to join our team. This position offers flexibility and excellent work-life balance, allowing you to pursue your professional passion while enjoying significant time off for personal pursuits and family time. We will run 2 rooms each day and rotate call services, with light call back.
 
jwk said:
Yeah, don't think that's gonna happen. There are AA-owned locum tenens placement companies, but they don't do any kind of group management. Strictly placement.
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Its inevitable
 
AKMD_1984 said:
If ASA had any teeth they would sue AANA. Study their behavior and policy, and find reasonable legal ground and do it.
Dedicate 10% annual of budget on this.
Heck I’d contribute to it.
It would be a worthwhile effort.

The above is a joke.
Click to expand...
They have, to an extent.

www.medscape.com

Who's an Anesthesiologist? Turf War Sparks Trademark Dispute

The ASA filed a trademark complaint against a nurse anesthetist group's name change, calling it "deceptively misdescriptive." At issue: Who can call themselves an anesthesiologist?
www.medscape.com www.medscape.com
 
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