Pros and Cons of the Scottish Schools

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RunTheWorld

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I applied to both Glasgow and Edinburgh and I just got an acceptance into the 4-year program at Edinburgh and an interview at Glasgow. I'm considering withdrawing my application from Glasgow mainly because it's a year longer, so I think I'll end up going to Edinburgh.

Can anyone tell me the pros and cons of both schools? Any major differences to consider? Right now I'm interested in wildlife. Any information from current students at either school, or anyone whose visited would be very helpful. I also heard that Edinburgh is a much nicer city. Any comments? I don't want to miss out on Glasgow if it's a better school for me, but I'd rather save the interview flight money if I'm just going to end up at Edinburgh anyways.

Thank you! 🙂

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I'm struggling with this too! I got accepted to Edinburgh's 5-year program, and have an interview with Glasgow. I think both programs are excellent, but I happen to like Edinburgh better as a city. I've visited the country several times, and Glasgow is BIG and busy and young and lots of offices. And Edinburgh is older, seems more touristy, but is beautiful and historic.
I can't really speak to the differences between the programs, but that's my experience in just visiting the cities.
 
I too was accepted to Edinburgh's GEP, and have an interview for Glasgow, and my big things are how they test differently than in the US and networking. I don't know how important it is to network in vet school to get jobs and residencies afterwords, but these are my two points of hesitation. Although I really really want to go...I need advice.
 
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The main problem I have with Edinburgh (should I be accepted and go there) is that they do a VMB&S (or whatever the initials are) vs a DVM.

*I* know that they're equivalent, but I plan to open my own clinic some day and I'd be doing it state side. Will people here even know what a VMB&S even is? Probably not; they're used to seeing DVMs. And if they understand that it's a veterinary degree, will they hold it in the same light as a DVM or go "well why'd he get that degree and not a DVM instead? Could he not pass the DVM degree?"


That's the only hang-up I have with Edinburgh.
 
My congrats on your acceptance! I also got the offer for Edin too! Two years ago I had decided to visit Glasgow and Edin to see if it was even worth applying there. My first thought of Glasgow was that it is a rather industrial city. I immediately was discouraged just by the look of the city. Didn't see that many parks, weather was rotten, and I didn't even get a chance to check out the campus. However, I rented a car and drove to Edin (its only 45 min away on one highway) and was thoroughly impressed by Edin. Its much cleaner, smaller, super quaint full of medieval history, the countryside is right there with a beautiful castle on a hill, and a freakin extinct volcano smacked dab in the middle of the city. The University is gorgeous! I felt like I was in Hogwarts roaming the Dick vet main hall with the grand wooden staircase. Everyone there was really helpful in getting myself around. There is even a pub around the corner from the school that gives discounts to Vet students! The bartender gave me free lunch just b/c I told him I was applying to the Dick Vet school!


Anywho, getting sidetracked! I drove to Roslin (on the outskirts of Edin) to the actual hospitals and facilities. They have a HUGE small animal hospital and large animal hospital. There are classrooms there and they have plans to build more facilities around that should be done by 2011 if Im not mistaken. I met Yvonne there and gave me a quick tour of the grounds and what the programme entails. The classes there are more hand-on/clinical based than lectures which, in my opinion, is awesome! We are required to work 12 weeks in farms anywhere in the world before the end of our 2nd year. They have a fantastic zoo where the students have classes in and you can also work there to fulfill your 12 weeks (its called EMS btw).

Let's see what else...Oh! I highly recommened to go to their reception either in NYC or San Fran. There you will meet Yvonne and some of the profs. They are incredibly funny. When we begin the semester we are given a prof that will be our DVM guidance counselor and work 1 on 1 with you throughout the years. The reception will also go into detail the program, where to live, which banks are affiliated with american ones, cars (although the buses are great there - there is a shuttle to Roslin), VISAs, living expenses, and all that jazz.

If you have an EU passport, you dont need to worry about getting a student visa and if you decide to bring pets go to www.defra.gov.uk to get a PET PASSPORT to avoid the 6-month quarantine issue for rabies. On that note, if you bring pets, you can't use the University housing system.

If you have anymore questions, feel free to ask! I still have my packet of info that Yvonne gave me at the reception last February. 😀
 
The main problem I have with Edinburgh (should I be accepted and go there) is that they do a VMB&S (or whatever the initials are) vs a DVM.

*I* know that they're equivalent, but I plan to open my own clinic some day and I'd be doing it state side. Will people here even know what a VMB&S even is? Probably not; they're used to seeing DVMs. And if they understand that it's a veterinary degree, will they hold it in the same light as a DVM or go "well why'd he get that degree and not a DVM instead? Could he not pass the DVM degree?"


That's the only hang-up I have with Edinburgh.

To be honest, most people do not notice the degree after the name. You could say you were and BSD&K (totally made up letters) and they would be like...cool! Cut my cat open! Its only us pre-vet nerds who notice things like discrepancies in the names of our degrees. Its the same with UPenn too. They are VMDs, but most people do not care. The two vets who opened and run my practice both went to Italy to get their degrees, and Italian schools arent even AVMA accredited, and my vets make BANK. I wouldnt worry too much about it.
 
I was just WAITING for someone to ask that question...I will try to keep my slightly bias opinion under control, as the rivalry between the schools is quite large ;-)


My first question is to the OP...where is your interview??? Because I wouldn't give up on Glasgow just because it is 5 years...It is a fabulous place to be!!

lalzi knows I will go on and on about Glasgow if given the chance...so please direct your question more so I don't word vomit too much!!! Do you want to know more about the city, the academics, the testing, the program in general, the social life??? A pros and cons list of general everything might take forever...

As for Glasgow being a "Big City"...it is definitely more of a small city feel..I was always worried about living in a city, as I am a country girl myself, but Glasgow is sooooo easy to navigate!! It is very much a University/ student oriented city as well, as there are so many schools there. It makes for a much more relaxed feel. Plus the vet school is more out of the city...and it has its own farm about a 20 min drive away that is amazingggg...called Cochno..I would suggest going to look at pictures on the website.

The general opinion that I have heard from locals is that if you are looking for a more "posh" British type/influenced city, then Edinburgh is your place, if you want Scotland and a more relaxed feel, I would go with Glasgow. There is a lot to do in Glasgow as well...theater, opera, movies, iceskating, oh and number 1 in shopping anyone??? Oh yes we made that list in the UK....

Also, lalzi, I wouldn't worry about networking too much..either way you go they are AVMA accredited, have plenty of American vets who have graduated from both schools, and EMS is a HUGE help when it comes to applying to internships etc later on...You will have plenty of outlets and ins to get where you want to be 🙂

Plus as a bonus, how many people can say they went to the same school as James Herriot? I mean really...
 
The main problem I have with Edinburgh (should I be accepted and go there) is that they do a VMB&S (or whatever the initials are) vs a DVM.

*I* know that they're equivalent, but I plan to open my own clinic some day and I'd be doing it state side. Will people here even know what a VMB&S even is? Probably not; they're used to seeing DVMs. And if they understand that it's a veterinary degree, will they hold it in the same light as a DVM or go "well why'd he get that degree and not a DVM instead? Could he not pass the DVM degree?"


That's the only hang-up I have with Edinburgh.

That isn't any different from Glasgow though, right? They don't offer a DVM either so the two schools are pretty much the same on that level.
 
I know plenty of vets here that are BVMS....people know what it is..don't let the title or the damn letters discourage you...you are still a qualified doctor...go look at the board on the AVMA website and tell me what you see...


And sobevet..I am sorry you had such an awful visit to Glasgow...however...the Botanic gardens are huge and span most of the city, as well as Kelvingrove Park...so I don't know why you didn't see any green.....plus the canal and river???

Also, with regards to weather...I am sorry, but either place you go the weather is going to be rain...it's Scotland for crying out loud...

Oh and an edit..Glasgow Main Uni where we have class 2 days a week....scenes from Harry Potter were filmed there...quidditch anyone?
 
I know plenty of vets here that are BVMS....people know what it is..don't let the title or the damn letters discourage you...you are still a qualified doctor...go look at the board on the AVMA website and tell me what you see...


And sobevet..I am sorry you had such an awful visit to Glasgow...however...the Botanic gardens are huge and span most of the city, as well as Kelvingrove Park...so I don't know why you didn't see any green.....plus the canal and river???

Also, with regards to weather...I am sorry, but either place you go the weather is going to be rain...it's Scotland for crying out loud...

Oh and an edit..Glasgow Main Uni where we have class 2 days a week....scenes from Harry Potter were filmed there...quidditch anyone?

Yea it really was unfortunate not to see the gardens. Obviously I know the weather is rotten all over the UK, however, the locals did tell me that the weather is better (if not mildly better) on the east coast of the island than the west.

Plus, I didn't have an awful time in Glasgow. I didnt get to see much (only had 4 days to see everything and take a Highlands tour 😉) Just felt that there was something about Edinburgh that took my breath away.
 
Yea it really was unfortunate not to see the gardens. Obviously I know the weather is rotten all over the UK, however, the locals did tell me that the weather is better (if not mildly better) on the east coast of the island than the west.

Plus, I didn't have an awful time in Glasgow. I didnt get to see much (only had 4 days to see everything and take a Highlands tour 😉) Just felt that there was something about Edinburgh that took my breath away.

Haha I can understand that...I am a sucker for castles and old things..I love visiting Edinburgh too! You'll just have to come to Dick Day next year in Glasgow and give the city/school another look 😀
 
That isn't any different from Glasgow though, right? They don't offer a DVM either so the two schools are pretty much the same on that level.

Right but Edinburgh is the only one I applied to. I was giving a con of the Scottish schools vs American.
 
I too have been dwelling on the Glasgow/Dick Vet question. I went as far as to call the AVMA and talk to a member of the accreditation committee that visited Scotland. He had nothing but rave reviews to say about both schools. He was quick to point out that each school has its own strengths, if you go to the vet hospital site for each school you can see that they don't offer all of the same services. Some faculty and departments like radiology or oncology maybe stronger at one school, but both provide a strong program.

The University of Glasgow is older, bit more "Ivy League" and is ranked higher globally, both as a University and Vet program (based on research $). The plans for Edinburgh's Easter Bush facility are state of the art, and partnerships with CSU and the Roslin institute (made Dolly), will make Edinburgh on the cutting edge of veterinary medicine. Without a doubt both programs offer more than many in the US.

You will find if you have not looked already that the web is full of comparrisons between the cities of Glasgow and Edinburgh. From what I gathered Glasgow is cheaper, has a better music scene and is more down to earth. Edinbugh, has more museams, attractions, and less crime. They are not far apart so both can be seen and experienced while we are there.

With the exchange rate the cost of tuition is not bad at either school and falls on the low end of most OOS US schools. Living in either city is expensive however. I anticipate that for four years all of my expenses including tuition will run over $200,000.

I am a Colorado resident, and CSU is my fisrt choice. If I don't get into CSU then I am leaning toward the Dick vet program because, their strengths are more in line with my interests. I will still interview with Glasgow, and see if they can win me over.
 
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I have an interview in Boston in February. I actually applied to Glasgow two years ago, but I was rejected (thank goodness because I would NOT have been ready!) and I did the interview in Sacremento then.

A lot's been said about the city (Thanks guys!) and it's great that they're so close so you can experience both! I'd mostly like to know more about the academics/testing/program in general and basically anything that you think makes Glasgow a better choice then Edinburgh.

Thanks!
 
Right but Edinburgh is the only one I applied to. I was giving a con of the Scottish schools vs American.

OH! I see... Sorry, I was just thinking in the Glasgow vs. Edinburgh frame of mind! 🙂
 
BVMS=DVM. I dunno why everyone is so hung up on the lettering. No client asks a vet from Penn why they have a VMD instead of a DVM. Both schools are AVMA accredited. Good enough for me! 👍 I'm not being picky. I want to be a vet first and foremost, and I'll go where I'm accepted with a smile. I've had MANY vets tell me that vet school is what you make of it.
 
BVMS=DVM. I dunno why everyone is so hung up on the lettering. No client asks a vet from Penn why they have a VMD instead of a DVM. Both schools are AVMA accredited. Good enough for me! 👍 I'm not being picky. I want to be a vet first and foremost, and I'll go where I'm accepted with a smile. I've had MANY vets tell me that vet school is what you make of it.


Actually, a LOT of clients ask what the difference is. They don't all realize its the same.

I work for a hospital that at one point had 2 penn grads, a Tufts grad, an Ontario Grad, a Ross Grad, and an Edinburgh grad. Our sign out front looked like alphabet soup!

And I felt like every time I covered a shift at the front desk there was somebody asking about the Edinburgh grad, and what the "BVM&S" means. And of course, once you said "bachelor of veterinary medicine and surgery" they think that a bachelor is a regular four year degree, and not equal to a DVM. Some people question VMD too, although not as many, and the wording doesn't really throw them off.
So while we know it's the same, it's our field. The clients don't know the difference half the time, and yes, they actually care.

Anyway, my two cents. From what I've heard, both the Scotland schools are AWESOME. Although, it's fun to make fun of the way they pronounce some meds and stuff, I have to admit!
 
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I have an interview in Boston in February. I actually applied to Glasgow two years ago, but I was rejected (thank goodness because I would NOT have been ready!) and I did the interview in Sacremento then.

A lot's been said about the city (Thanks guys!) and it's great that they're so close so you can experience both! I'd mostly like to know more about the academics/testing/program in general and basically anything that you think makes Glasgow a better choice then Edinburgh.

Thanks!

Haha...welllll I shall try and pick out the highlights for you from my Glasgow experience (I apologise if some of you recognize what I am saying from PMs, I got lazy and copy pasted....)

So far I love Glasgow!! Here goes my rambling....

The curriculum takes some getting used to, but when you sit down and think about it, the way they break it down is great. The first two years are 4 classes...Anatomy, Physiology, Biomolecular Science, and Animal Husbandry. 3rd year is the "dead year" where you get parasitology, pharmacology, pathology, and something else I am forgetting right now...microbiology maybe?? 4th and 5th year are the clinical years. Also, throughout your time here, you do something outside of class/school called EMS. The first two years you do 12 weeks of preclinical EMS...basically animal experience. Then your final 3 years, you do 26 weeks of clinical work. Most people do all of this on breaks, and a lot of American students get exemptions because of previous experience (I already have 8 weeks of my 12 done). You can also do EMS all over the world..a lot of people I know from Glasgow go to Vets Gone Wild in South Africa for EMS..others go back to the states, so roam around the UK...you can do it wherever you want!! Go global!!!...Networking like a fiend...

The grading is a bit weird, but you deal. 70% is an A, which is hard to get into your head as an American student. Luckily Glasgow just switched its grading system, so my class does not have endure negative marking (+1 for correct answer -1 point for incorrect...like the SATs/GREs). With that system, negative grades were still possible...so yay for change!!! In the 3 months I have been here, I have only had 4 exams...but as these are only class exams, they are worth 7.5% of my total class grade. The professional exams in May are cumulative for the year and 85% of my grade..so check in again with me after those!!If you fail a professional, you take orals in June, if you don't pass those, you do a resit exam in August, if you still do not pass, you get another oral...so they WANT you to pass and move up a year...and try to provide you with ample chance to succeed. Sounds a bit scary I know, but it all works out!! Glasgow also has tutorials for some of the classes, which breaks down your class into groups of 10-20, and you are given a set of discussion questions. These are SUPER helpful for test review, as they revolve around test questions, and some are even from previous exams...very very helpful if you don't understand something and need a bit more personal attention. CALs are another tool Glasgow uses to review material...it is computer based learning that has simulated dissections and labs, topic quizzes, and overall review for all of the classes. Very handy for testing yourself and seeing how your studying is coming along.

The testing style for each department is a bit different, but seems to pretty standard with the other schools. Anatomy we had a 2 hour written, 1 hour lab practical (think naming this pin prick). It was a nice first exam though, because Anatomy, being two years, we only had the forelimb to worry about for our very first exam...a lot of information, don't get me wrong, but breaking down the anatomy really helps you learn it. The other 3 exams (physio, biomolec, and husbandry) were all during "finals" week...each lasting around 1.5-2 hours...and mostly multiple choice and short answer format..not so bad!!!

You will end up doing every type of animal (well especially the big 6 --sheep pigs cows horses cats dogs), but they throw pretty much everything in there. There is no tracking. In anatomy, you will learn everything on the dog, compare to the cat, then study the horse and cow etc. Same with all the classes...Even if you want to do small animal, you will do it all, which in my opinion is better, because you might be introduced to something you never have been before..and post grad you can go into any type of practice. They do a little bit of exotics, but not too much so far...if it interests you though, you can do research with the professors also interested in it. They even let first years get involved with research..and our wildlife/exotics guy is so much fun!!

Do you like hands on?? OMG all the time..the first week here I was on the school's farm restraining cattle and tossing sheep!! We also have dissection every Friday, where about 4 people work per station. We all get time practicing and helping each other. Plus, they usually have live animals around in another room so we can practice palpating what we are learning in the lab onto a live dog. It really helps associating all of that!! Oh and the dissection guide many vet schools here use, was written by our Professor...Dr. Boyd...amazing man...absolute legend. You also have wet labs in Biomolec..which most Americans have done..think electrophoresis...but it is a good refresher.

I love the people..I recommend finding a private flat with American students as opposed to dorm living...living with 17yr olds again gets old after you have done the college thing..or so I hear..I am living with 4 second years and loving it. There are tons of flats all over the city for pretty cheap!!

Take advantage of where you are..travel..have a good time..for at least in your first year...you should still live by the motto work hard play hard, otherwise the stress level may be too much. It's weird because you read all of these things about American students in vet school not having social lives and working all the time, but here, it is part of your growth as a vet, and you really can make lasting friendships in a very short time who can help you get through the hard times and homesickness. Glasgow vets definitely know how to live by that motto...and we have many social outlets, sports teams, and class/school parties all the time just to relieve stress!! Lock 27, the local pub, is also a fantastic place to walk to and unwind after a tough exam..and somehow, all the vets end up there together, and have a great time!!

A big thing I have noticed about Glasgow is how close-knit a group we really are, especially the overseas kids. I do get homesick every now and again, esp right now around the Holidays, but we try and support each other and make up for it...like having a huge 30 person Thanksgiving!! I have met so many people from all the different years, and they are not only a great resource for studying and getting through, but are some of the most fantastic people I have ever met. Glasgow also has a mentor program, so a faculty member checks up on you a few ties a year to see how you are doing, takes you out to drinks, and is a great resource for whenever you need them. And if they can't help you with what you need, they will find someone who can!!

Phew..ok...enough for now...let me know if any of that doesn't make sense...or you want to know more!!

PS....I keep a blog, which you are welcome to look at, to update family and friends back home...PM me if you want the link..I try to update it once a week...so a day in the life of a vet student if you will...
 
Not giving this a ton of thought at 12:30 AM, but in my mind there are so many pros:

--- Scotland is gorgeous

--- The schools are in cities:

so there is some choice in lifestyle
a bit more diversity and opportunity
and with their hospitals they have real caseloads...

--- The UK schools require 12 weeks of EMS and so you get some unique experiences

--- In my mind the UK is more progressive in terms of animal husbandry and food animal welfare

--- You can travel to Iceland and continental Europe for cheap or around the UK

--- Your class will be much more diverse (international) and so there will be different opportunities with networking

I could go on and on. I'm pretty sold, though, and so I guess I am biased. As for the degree title, I could care less... I already have two bachelor's degrees. A third is way more unique than a graduate degree added on! ;-)
 
The EMS at Edinburgh is actually 12 weeks by the end of year 1 if you are in GEP and by the end of yr 2 if you are in the 5 year. Total EMS is 38 weeks? Or, something close to that. It's a lot.
 
So how is everyone planning to pay for the tuition abroad? I know it is comparable to OOS in the US, but it's still a lot considering the whole expected income/opportunity cost...

Everyone planning to go on loans? Out of pocket/up front? Combo of both? I am so torn about how best to manage it... I think I need to visit a financial planner ASAP.
 
So how is everyone planning to pay for the tuition abroad? I know it is comparable to OOS in the US, but it's still a lot considering the whole expected income/opportunity cost...

Everyone planning to go on loans? Out of pocket/up front? Combo of both? I am so torn about how best to manage it... I think I need to visit a financial planner ASAP.

I'll probably end up paying for most of it with loans, if I end up going there. I mean, I don't HAVE that much out of pocket, but I could at least do some that way. Financial planner = the way to go.
 
If I didn't have as many critters as I do I would have applied to Glasgow, and am envious of all who have applied or been accepted. Though to tell the truth it's probably better that I'll never have the chance, I'd probably just sit there all day long listening to the wonderful Scottish brouge and never actually listen to WHAT they were saying😍
 
Without a doubt both programs offer more than many in the US.

Can you elaborate on that?

As for the OP, look at the schools and compare the curriculums and what you want out of vet school. The country is small enough that I wouldn't base as much of a decision on what city, only because it isn't hard to get out of the city. I had great experiences in both places, but have a personal preference for Edin. At the time I was there, Glasgow had more of a run-down feel to it, but a near decade changes things, and I may have also been influence by being an American in the region only a week after 9-11. I can definitly comment that I do not think having a degree other than DVM will affect your options here; clients just don't notice in the places I have worked, but then again, we didn't list degrees prominantly like some places do...they assume if you are running a vet clinic and no one has stopped you, you have appropriate credentials. They are going to judge you far more on how you treat fido and fluffy, how you interact with them, and how you handle their pets health and well being.
 
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Can you elaborate on that?

No problem 🙂

I will use radiology as an example, Oregon State only recently (believe it was last year) hired a radiology faculty position and they have limited radiology facilities. Not every school has all of the same facilities, equipment or expertise.

If you are interested in particular aspect of veterinary medicine, or research then you might want to go to a school that has the top instructor/resources in that field.

As institutions go, both the University of Glasgow and the University of Edinburgh are on the list of top 100 universities in the world (i.e Harvard in #1 then Cambridge). Many US schools with veterinary programs did not make the list. As for veterinary schools, Glasgow is rated #1 in the UK and both have internationally recognized programs.

My comment echoed those voiced to me by a vet at the AVMA who’s job it was to participate in the evaluation of both of these programs in Scotland. As it was his job to critique veterinary programs, I consider him a good source on the subject. He said that both schools in Scotland have strong large and small animal programs. Both have cutting edge facilities; have (or have access to) CTs, MRIs, hydrotherapy pools, gene therapy etc. Both schools have instructors who are leaders in their field, Glasgow is one of the top research Universities on earth, and the Royal (Dick) School has a research partnership with CSU (nothing to scoff at) and the Roslin Institute (folks that brought us Dolly). The percentage of students at both Scottish schools passing the NAVLE is consistently higher than the 80% required by the AVMA, and both school have and are developing new state-of-the-art facilities. I am especially excited about the new Veterinary Oncology and Imaging Centre at the University of Edinburgh.

The gentleman I spoke to from the AVMA ended our conversation by saying, if he had the opportunity to go back he would have gone to school in Scotland instead of the US. I can think of no better endorsement from a veterinarian than that. If I do not get into CSU then I will personally choose Scotland over any of the other US schools I applied to.

My comment was NOT that I thought Scotland had more to offer than ANY of the schools in the US. But, from what I have read and heard, the breadth and quality of education, the up-to-date facilities, extensive research opportunities and extramural study requirement suggest to me that both schools in Scotland have more to offer than MANY of the veterinary programs in the US.

I hope this provides the clarification you were looking for. I certainly recognize that all AVMA accredited schools provide a strong veterinary education, and many have top-notch facilities. If you require additional clarification, feel free to PM me.
 
My comment was NOT that I thought Scotland had more to offer than ANY of the schools in the US. But, from what I have read and heard, the breadth and quality of education, the up-to-date facilities, extensive research opportunities and extramural study requirement suggest to me that both schools in Scotland have more to offer than MANY of the veterinary programs in the US.

I would agree that the points you are making about these schools are made by many of the vet schools in the US.

I agree, everyone needs to look at what they are seeking in a school during the application. However, I would argue that in the small world of vet schools, rankings aren't terribly useful, particularly rankings that review entire universities vs. individual programs (as some countries have much smaller dimensions/populations and concentrate education into individual institutions rather than focusing on being excellent in fields.)

We have state of the art imaging and research (one of the current research projects of one of the professors I had this semester was the nature cover recently). Heck, I learn more and more as I go on about the school I attend, which is part of why I feel rankings aren't very useful in such a field. Also, rankings don't always reflect education...how well the school teaches, because what works best for one student won't for another...and no one has attended all of these schools at the same time? Also, how do we weight what is most important? Is Dolly more important than Pegasus? How about cancer research vs neuro vs endo vs behavior? And then, looking at that, the costs of research can be so very different so using research dollars as a measure or student:faculty ratio can be very misleading. Of course, just my opinion; find the programs that fit you, and if you have multiple options, find the best one that fits you and enjoy.
 
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