Providers below Phd/Psyd

[softballtennis]

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I'm not trying be rude or overgeneralize but most therapists below the psychologist level, were some of the worst I ever had. I mean psychologists have a 1 year residency/internship that is guided and mentored through. I mean being a clinical psychologist takes a lot of effort and work. I'm not saying all psychs are good but most of them are pretty good. I think mid-levels only have the basic knowledge down. I'm not saying all of them are bad . If my child needed a therapist they would see a psychiatrist or psychologist nothing less than that.

 

[ikibah]

Well then they would be limited to only some of the best therapists in your area.

 

[erg923]

I'm not trying be rude or overgeneralize but most therapists below the psychologist level, were some of the worst I ever had. I mean psychologists have a 1 year residency/internship that is guided and mentored through. I mean being a clinical psychologist takes a lot of effort and work. I'm not saying all psychs are good but most of them are pretty good. I think mid-levels only have the basic knowledge down. I'm not saying all of them are bad . If my child needed a therapist they would see a psychiatrist or psychologist nothing less than that.

Is there a question here?

 

[KillerDiller]

Psychologists actually have more than just one full-time year before they end up sitting for licensure. The training really is equivalent in length to medical school. However, masters-level providers also have to log quite a lot of supervised hours before they can become licensed too.

 

[wesleysmith]

Thank you for sharing...it was very..constructive?

 

[PsychBiker]

Is there a question here?

Also, any examples of how they were the "worst therapists" ?

 

[thewesternsky]

The research literature generally shows no differences in patient outcomes, actually. But thanks for your opinion?

 

[chartero]

I mean psychologists have a 1 year residency/internship that is guided and mentored through.

Don't master's level licensed clinicians typically have 2-year internships under supervision before license to practice independently? With, generally, a larger percentage of their time focused on therapy, whereas psychologists spend more time on assessment, and psychiatrists much more time on medical management.

If my child needed a therapist they would see a psychiatrist or psychologist nothing less than that.

Shouldn't you think, "it would depend just what my child needs a therapist for, and what providers in our area had matching skill sets?" If they needed medication management, that would point to a psychiatrist. If they needed a subtle psychological assessment, that would point to a psychologist.

But let's say your kid was fairly nervous about identifiable stresses in the family, and it would help them to talk it out extensively with somebody skilled. Are you saying you'd absolutely rule out an MFT – because what, "psychologist level" providers are better for all forms of therapy for all indications? If they were having trouble in school, you'd rule out a master's- or Ed.S.-level school psychologist?

If a psychiatrist or psychologist refused absolutely to refer clients to master's level providers ever – for any form of therapy for any indication – do you think that would be commendable professionally?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

If a psychiatrist or psychologist refused absolutely to refer clients to master's level providers ever – for any form of therapy for any indication – do you think that would be commendable professionally?

It'd raise an eyebrow if it was a blanket refusal for *all* non-doctoral level folks, but I definitely can understand if they have reservations about a particular training approach. I personally do not refer to any chiropractors or pastoral counselors because I have significant reservations about both of their training models. I'll refer to a PT/OT/physiatrist instead of a chiropractor or defer to the person's local pastor (or similar) for spiritual needs instead of a pastoral counseling person. I also do not refer to any "substance abuse counselors" (the certificate level, not an MA/MS/other who works with addiction counseling)…also because of concerns with training model/standards.

 

[chartero]

It'd raise an eyebrow if it was a blanket refusal for *all* non-doctoral level folks, but I definitely can understand if they have reservations about a particular training approach.

This is reasonable, of course.

 

[gradschooldream]

How many therapists below the psychologist level do you have personal experience with?

 

[smalltownpsych]

The research literature generally shows no differences in patient outcomes, actually. But thanks for your opinion?

From what I have seen this statement is based on a couple of very old and popularly cited studies that have numerous design flaws. Some of the newer studies that I have seen primarily look at manualized treatments with equivalent levels of supervision and training for the manualized treatment and are also comparing doctoral students to licensed MA people. More flaws. Nevertheless, it is correct to say that we don't have research to show that you are better off choosing a psychologist, but I do know we have quite a few more hoops to jump through so it could be hoped that it weeds out. That is a tough one to measure.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Also, one of the best therapists that I ever worked with was a master's level therapist. He had incredible conceptualization skills that were at least equivalent to my own (and that's actually one of my own personal strengths) and he was much better at creating innovative and effective treatment plans than I was and I was his boss. There were a few areas that my extra experience and training gave me an advantage, especially when it came to law, ethics, and diagnosis. The other 20 or so master's level people that I have worked with didn't come close to the skill set of a good psychologist. I did work with a really bad fake psychologist who got an online degree but that is a whole 'nother story.

 

[wesleysmith]

.. but I do know we have quite a few more hoops to jump through so it could be hoped that it weeds out. .

I wonder if this is the reason mid-level providers get such a bad reputation; there is such a wide array of educational paths (or program setups/concentrations) that can lead to someone getting licensed as a "therapist". Also, there are less hoops, and lower standards for admission, so the field could be loaded with poor quality graduates (the bad cops set the tone) when a properly motivated, intelligent, mid-level practitioner could actually be quite the effective therapist (?). Of course, I know there is a lot more that goes into their training that separates them professionally and what not, but this might at least account for the poor quality people encounter more so than the overall training alone. Or maybe not, I'll find out as time goes by...

 

[softballtennis]

How many therapists below the psychologist level do you have personal experience with?

7

 

[PsychBiker]

7

I hope that is not the only question you will answer from this entire thread.

 

[erg923]

7

Is what percent of licensed MH providers practicing in the US?

Now, put on your scientific thinking hat. Do I need to go on...?

 

[CheetahGirl]

7

IMO perhaps someone would have been better served seeing one (or 2) provider(s) on and off for several years, rather than building clinical relationships with so many practitioners...unless these varied relationships were necessary for treatment (like a referral to Social Work, followed by a referral to Clinical Psych, followed by a referral to Psychiatry, etc.) or perhaps this was due to change in local.

However, I follow the group and am perplexed by this discussion.