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There seem to be a lot of "rank my list" threads coming out, with the lists usually containing a mix of tiers, widely divergent locations, and few input parameters...
..."ranking" these kinds of lists is really kind of insane.
Part of the problem is that you all are about to move into a different phase in your career. Up until now, you've been dominated by individual ranking (MCAT, step scores, grades, class rank, AOA), and striving for some kind of excellence with a ranked objective or quasiobjective status is the goal. I know... I've been there.
This next step is different. If you find yourself puzzling over the your rank list with a smaller program from California, a prominent academic program in the Midwest, your alma mater, and that program everybody says is great at IR but hates the climate, or whatever, what you need to do is to not have a group of anonymous strangers create some group consensus on prestige, what you need to do is to "know thyself" PDQ.
There are no grades or scores in residency. The core exam currently is pass, condition, fail. Agonizing over which program is intrinsically "better" is insanity. It is all relative to *your goals*. If you don't know what your goals are, you can't rank intelligently. If you think it's too early to have a career or life goal at 26-27 and you're still developing, then go to the place that gives you more career options. This is usually an academic center and the "prestige" of the center is not really that important in the grand scheme of things. If you say should I go to a University of Texas academic center or Brigham? You need to get in touch with yourself and figure out some way to rank what's important in your life and the rank list will take care of itself.
Your career success from now on will depend more and more on your individual effort in improving yourself (with no glory of a high exam score), your networking skills, and your life happiness. No amount of "prestige" in your training program will overcome defects in these.
In the generic "rank these" question without any input parameters, there is not as much variability in training programs as you might think.
The best comparisons for a site like this are narrow ones... e.g. "I'm single, I'm interested in MSK radiology, private practice and interested in staying in the south, should I choose Emory or Duke?" People might have some small bit of information that may shift you one way or the other. The question "which is better? Emory or Santa Barbara Cottage Hospital or UPMC???" is worthless. Don't waste your time. Spend time figuring out what you want out of life instead... I mean... you're going to have to do it at some point, right?
This is a long post, but one more thing...
I would suggest you break yourself down into one of five categories:
1) Purely academic, no possibility of private practice.
- I don't imagine these people are asking questions on this site... but don't bother thinking about ranking. Pick the most "prestigious" institutions in order of where you would like to end up. The actual quality of the training doesn't matter.
- If you're having fun, you're not working hard enough on your grant.
2) Academically inclined, but leaving option open for private practice
- All top ranks must be academic centers.
- I would assume if you're academically "inclined" you have some areas that interest you more than others. Provisionally pick some future fellowship and see how many of the current residents at a residency program stay for that fellowship. This is a good correlation for "quality" of the program in that area.
- Rank partly based on location and what programs would make you happy for four years.
- Have fun.
3) Probably going private practice, small possibility of academics
- Similar to #2, but not as crucial that all top ranks must be academic centers.
- Rank based on order of gut feeling, personal happiness index, and target location.
- Go to nearby big-name academic center for fellowship, if not already there. If you find halfway through residency that you're a born academic, you can move into academics from efforts in the second half of residency and making connections at your academic fellowship.
- Have fun.
4) Definitely going private practice
- Choose training program purely based on eventual location, make contacts with area groups very early, do some real actual moonlighting, learn the business of radiology.
- Spend a year at a big-name academic center for fellowship... but your job is already lined up in your target location.
- Have fun.
5) The IR guy/gal
- Go to an academic center, rank based on where you would want to stay for fellowship.
- Rank a liver transplant center higher.
- Rank a center where residents have more SIR or WCIO abstract presentations. If no resident has ever published in IR or gone to SIR, forget it.
- Ideally pick a program with fewer fellows, but that's not necessary to be good at IR or to get a job.
- Have fun?
This post is too long. Hope it helps someone.
..."ranking" these kinds of lists is really kind of insane.
Part of the problem is that you all are about to move into a different phase in your career. Up until now, you've been dominated by individual ranking (MCAT, step scores, grades, class rank, AOA), and striving for some kind of excellence with a ranked objective or quasiobjective status is the goal. I know... I've been there.
This next step is different. If you find yourself puzzling over the your rank list with a smaller program from California, a prominent academic program in the Midwest, your alma mater, and that program everybody says is great at IR but hates the climate, or whatever, what you need to do is to not have a group of anonymous strangers create some group consensus on prestige, what you need to do is to "know thyself" PDQ.
There are no grades or scores in residency. The core exam currently is pass, condition, fail. Agonizing over which program is intrinsically "better" is insanity. It is all relative to *your goals*. If you don't know what your goals are, you can't rank intelligently. If you think it's too early to have a career or life goal at 26-27 and you're still developing, then go to the place that gives you more career options. This is usually an academic center and the "prestige" of the center is not really that important in the grand scheme of things. If you say should I go to a University of Texas academic center or Brigham? You need to get in touch with yourself and figure out some way to rank what's important in your life and the rank list will take care of itself.
Your career success from now on will depend more and more on your individual effort in improving yourself (with no glory of a high exam score), your networking skills, and your life happiness. No amount of "prestige" in your training program will overcome defects in these.
In the generic "rank these" question without any input parameters, there is not as much variability in training programs as you might think.
The best comparisons for a site like this are narrow ones... e.g. "I'm single, I'm interested in MSK radiology, private practice and interested in staying in the south, should I choose Emory or Duke?" People might have some small bit of information that may shift you one way or the other. The question "which is better? Emory or Santa Barbara Cottage Hospital or UPMC???" is worthless. Don't waste your time. Spend time figuring out what you want out of life instead... I mean... you're going to have to do it at some point, right?
This is a long post, but one more thing...
I would suggest you break yourself down into one of five categories:
1) Purely academic, no possibility of private practice.
- I don't imagine these people are asking questions on this site... but don't bother thinking about ranking. Pick the most "prestigious" institutions in order of where you would like to end up. The actual quality of the training doesn't matter.
- If you're having fun, you're not working hard enough on your grant.
2) Academically inclined, but leaving option open for private practice
- All top ranks must be academic centers.
- I would assume if you're academically "inclined" you have some areas that interest you more than others. Provisionally pick some future fellowship and see how many of the current residents at a residency program stay for that fellowship. This is a good correlation for "quality" of the program in that area.
- Rank partly based on location and what programs would make you happy for four years.
- Have fun.
3) Probably going private practice, small possibility of academics
- Similar to #2, but not as crucial that all top ranks must be academic centers.
- Rank based on order of gut feeling, personal happiness index, and target location.
- Go to nearby big-name academic center for fellowship, if not already there. If you find halfway through residency that you're a born academic, you can move into academics from efforts in the second half of residency and making connections at your academic fellowship.
- Have fun.
4) Definitely going private practice
- Choose training program purely based on eventual location, make contacts with area groups very early, do some real actual moonlighting, learn the business of radiology.
- Spend a year at a big-name academic center for fellowship... but your job is already lined up in your target location.
- Have fun.
5) The IR guy/gal
- Go to an academic center, rank based on where you would want to stay for fellowship.
- Rank a liver transplant center higher.
- Rank a center where residents have more SIR or WCIO abstract presentations. If no resident has ever published in IR or gone to SIR, forget it.
- Ideally pick a program with fewer fellows, but that's not necessary to be good at IR or to get a job.
- Have fun?
This post is too long. Hope it helps someone.
