Psy.D. List

[xXIDaShizIXx]

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I originally intended on attending medical school, but have since decided to pursue clinical psychology. I want to pursue a program that focuses on a practitioner model, so it seems that a Psy.D. program will be the best for me. I have 8 so far on my list and will add up to two more. I'll be applying to attend next year. I was wondering if you would tell me what you think of my list of schools and what you think of them and if you know any pros or cons to watch out for, or if I need to take off a school or add one to my list. I'll be living with my wife. The area needs to be affordable, and I don't want an extremely religious college (besides Baylor, obviously). Here they are:

1.) Nova Southeastern University
2.) Florida Institute of Technology
3.) Midwestern University
4.) University of Indianapolis
5.) Marshall University
6.) Pacific University
7.) Baylor University
8.) Wright State University

I'd be happy to give you my stats if you could tell me about what kind of chance I stand at these schools as well. Thank you!

 

[mcvcm92]

You have a pretty good range of schools on your list. Baylor is consistently talked about as being one of the top PsyD programs because it fully funds its students... and I think that University of Indianapolis funds well too (not sure if its full). I've also heard good things about FIT, but I don't know if it is funded.

On the contrary, I've heard not-so-great things about Nova Southeastern due to its lack of funding and large cohort sizes. I'm not sure on the other ones, but best of luck!

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

Thanks! What about the University of Denver? It seems like a good program, but it is very expensive for out of state students.

 

[voyeurofthemind]

Univ. of Denver - the costs were mind boggling (150K for tuition alone) - also only a three year program which I think would put you at a disadvantage in having enough time to develop solid opportunities to prepare for internship. Nova - PM me and I can give you a pretty detailed pro / con list.

As to the other universities, I don't have any basis to evaluate them.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

Univ. of Denver - the costs were mind boggling (150K for tuition alone) - also only a three year program which I think would put you at a disadvantage in having enough time to develop solid opportunities to prepare for internship. Nova - PM me and I can give you a pretty detailed pro / con list.

As to the other universities, I don't have any basis to evaluate them.

Will do. That's definitely what kept them off my list. The price was just ridiculous. Any other thoughts?

 

[KillerDiller]

... and I think that University of Indianapolis funds well too (not sure if its full).

U Indy is not funded. I think they offer 3 students each year (out of 25-30 incoming) an assistantship that is good for 1/3 of tuition costs. So, yeah, not really anything that I would consider a funded program. I wouldn't recommend it.

OP, you are coming from a place where you are more familiar with medical training, where it is expected that students pay for their degrees. This is not the case in psychology. There are plenty of funded programs that will pay you while you get your doctorate. I recommend looking into these, as it is not the best economic decision to take on major debt for a graduate degree in this field. Also, the funded programs tend to have the better internship/ licensure outcomes, so it's win/win. However, you will almost certainly have to broaden your search to PhD programs to do this. AFAIK, Baylor is the only fully-funded PsyD program.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Just out of curiosity, what made you switch from premed to prepsych?

 

[PHD12]

I originally intended on attending medical school, but have since decided to pursue clinical psychology. I want to pursue a program that focuses on a practitioner model, so it seems that a Psy.D. program will be the best for me. I have 8 so far on my list and will add up to two more. I'll be applying to attend next year. I was wondering if you would tell me what you think of my list of schools and what you think of them and if you know any pros or cons to watch out for, or if I need to take off a school or add one to my list. I'll be living with my wife. The area needs to be affordable, and I don't want an extremely religious college (besides Baylor, obviously). Here they are:

1.) Nova Southeastern University
2.) Florida Institute of Technology
3.) Midwestern University
4.) University of Indianapolis
5.) Marshall University
6.) Pacific University
7.) Baylor University
8.) Wright State University

I'd be happy to give you my stats if you could tell me about what kind of chance I stand at these schools as well. Thank you!

I would add Rutgers to your list. They have better match rates and significantly better outcomes than most programs on your list (EPPP pass rate of 98%), as well as partial funding. Baylor is the only PsyD program that has full funding with a stipend for all years that I have ever heard of. Off the top of my head, Nova, Midwestern, and Pacific are all expensive and don't have good outcomes (low APA match rates).

If you are looking for affordability, the PsyD is not really a good fit in general. Unless you get into Baylor/Rutgers (both are tougher to get into statistically than vast majority of med schools), you are looking at 120-200K in loans (depending on the program). Many of the programs on your list have minimal to no funding. So you are taking out medical school loans for a degree with very uncertain outcomes and 1/3-1/4 the salary of a physician (depending on specialty). If you already completed your pre-med coursework, I would strongly urge you to consider these statistics. Most people don't like being pre-med, but there is a huge pay off later. Unless you are independently wealthy, I don't know of any psychologist who is going to recommend an unfunded PsyD program.

 

[PsySeeker]

Have you looked into Indiana University of Pennsylvania?

 

[mcvcm92]

U Indy is not funded. I think they offer 3 students each year (out of 25-30 incoming) an assistantship that is good for 1/3 of tuition costs. So, yeah, not really anything that I would consider a funded program. I wouldn't recommend it.

OP, you are coming from a place where you are more familiar with medical training, where it is expected that students pay for their degrees. This is not the case in psychology. There are plenty of funded programs that will pay you while you get your doctorate. I recommend looking into these, as it is not the best economic decision to take on major debt for a graduate degree in this field. Also, the funded programs tend to have the better internship/ licensure outcomes, so it's win/win. However, you will almost certainly have to broaden your search to PhD programs to do this. AFAIK, Baylor is the only fully-funded PsyD program.

My mistake! I was thinking of Indiana U of Pennsylvania when I wrote about University of Indianapolis

 

[futureapppsy2]

Also, it's worth noting that the IL program of Midwestern isn't APA accredited. They applied and were actually denied a couple of years ago and are currently reapplying, I think. The AZ program is accredited, but both are incredibly expensive.

I've known some really good psychologists associated with Wright State (in OH, not to be confused with the Wright Institute in CA), but I don't know about the funding situation.

Generally, your best bets for a funded PsyD program are Baylor, Rutgers, and Indiana U-Pennsylvania (IU-P).

 

[Doctor Eliza]

Also, it's worth noting that the IL program of Midwestern isn't APA accredited. They applied and were actually denied a couple of years ago and are currently reapplying, I think. The AZ program is accredited, but both are incredibly expensive.

I've known some really good psychologists associated with Wright State (in OH, not to be confused with the Wright Institute in CA), but I don't know about the funding situation.

Generally, your best bets for a funded PsyD program are Baylor, Rutgers, and Indiana U-Pennsylvania (IU-P).

Although in contrast, I have known several poor psychologists from Wright State. In all cases, interpersonally odd with some glaring clinical judgement errors. But, that's just anecdotal. Look at the stats relative to cost and go from there.

I also am curious about the question posed by previous posters: Why did you lose interest in the MD?

Dr. E

 

[futureapppsy2]

but, that's just anecdotal. Look at the stats relative to cost and go from there.

+1

 

[pretzels]

OP, you are coming from a place where you are more familiar with medical training, where it is expected that students pay for their degrees. This is not the case in psychology. There are plenty of funded programs that will pay you while you get your doctorate. I recommend looking into these, as it is not the best economic decision to take on major debt for a graduate degree in this field. Also, the funded programs tend to have the better internship/ licensure outcomes, so it's win/win. However, you will almost certainly have to broaden your search to PhD programs to do this. AFAIK, Baylor is the only fully-funded PsyD program.

I have a feeling if erg were here, he'd be asking you why you aren't applying to boulder model (balanced) phd programs. I echo his sentiments regarding PsyDs; it seems unnecessary to apply to a PsyD for the purpose of being more clinically oriented when a balanced PhD program will give you the rigorous clinical training you need. The difference is you will also be a trained producer and consumer of research, will be much more likely to match come internship, and will have little to no debt at the end.

 

[Pragma]

I have a feeling if erg were here, he'd be asking you why you aren't applying to boulder model (balanced) phd programs. I echo his sentiments regarding PsyDs; it seems unnecessary to apply to a PsyD for the purpose of being more clinically oriented when a balanced PhD program will give you the rigorous clinical training you need. The difference is you will also be a trained producer and consumer of research, will be much more likely to match come internship, and will have little to no debt at the end.

Yeah, I think a balanced PhD program is going to be more affordable and, on average, I think the training is probably better. Not to say that some of the programs you are considering aren't great programs. But I would not recommend any unfunded program, personally. It is tough enough making ends meet in a funded one.

 

[LPPSYD]

The area needs to be affordable, and I don't want an extremely religious college (besides Baylor, obviously).

Just a note about this part of your post, I attend a program at a small Catholic school and I can say that this generally does not affect graduate students. I know it tends to leak into undergraduate education, but graduate programs are different. Obviously there is a religious culture to the campus itself but being a graduate student separates you from a lot of that. This is something I've heard from people at other religious schools as well. Also, I am very nonreligious so I would be sensitive to this. I wouldn't rule out schools on this basis.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

Just a note about this part of your post, I attend a program at a small Catholic school and I can say that this generally does not affect graduate students. I know it tends to leak into undergraduate education, but graduate programs are different. Obviously there is a religious culture to the campus itself but being a graduate student separates you from a lot of that. This is something I've heard from people at other religious schools as well. Also, I am very nonreligious so I would be sensitive to this. I wouldn't rule out schools on this basis.

Really, at places like George Fox University? They require a pastoral reference for admission.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

The reason why I cannot pursue a PhD program is because I have zero research experience. I go to a small college and many of the professors are doing little if any research. Not to mention, I want a career in the military as a clinical psychologist, not as a researcher in any sense.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

Although in contrast, I have known several poor psychologists from Wright State. In all cases, interpersonally odd with some glaring clinical judgement errors. But, that's just anecdotal. Look at the stats relative to cost and go from there.

I also am curious about the question posed by previous posters: Why did you lose interest in the MD?

Dr. E

I lost interest because all of the physicians I shadowed were money hungry, and did not care about the patient, they did not care about anything, but prescribing and did not really care what the patient's had to say. Theres more but lets just say I became disillusioned with medicine and much more interested in psychology. Just PM me if you want to know more.

 

[PHD12]

The reason why I cannot pursue a PhD program is because I have zero research experience. I go to a small college and many of the professors are doing little if any research. Not to mention, I want a career in the military as a clinical psychologist, not as a researcher in any sense.

If you want a career in the military, you are going to need an APA internship as a requirement. PsyD graduates, on average, have a tougher time landing an apa internship and getting positions with the federal government because many of these careers value the scientist-practitioner model and research. Many of the programs on your list have poor apa match rates (50% or so) so they will not be a great fit with your goals and put you into significant debt to boot. Baylor and Rutgers have excellent outcomes and match rates, but they accept 5% or less of applicants.

 

[PHD12]

The reason why I cannot pursue a PhD program is because I have zero research experience. I go to a small college and many of the professors are doing little if any research. Not to mention, I want a career in the military as a clinical psychologist, not as a researcher in any sense.

Most psychologists will likely inform you that you shouldn't consider a doctoral level degree (PsyD or PhD) if you have no interest and experience in research. You will still have to write a dissertation so you should at the very least have some experience with research to see if you can work on research for several years in your doctoral training. Any good PsyD program is going to have a good amount of research requirements/coursework and dissertations usually take several years to complete (even if qualitative etc).

You may also feel disenchanted with the psychology profession once you work in the field so it's better to get some experience before school.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

How much research would be necessary for a PhD program? Decent ones, it does not have to be top tier.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

To get in? Highly variable. One of the problems with PhD programs is they are not generic. You are applying to labs, essentially. Think of it as an early specialty focus. You could have very limited research experience, but a good interest match, or lots of research (e.g., 2 year RA) but terrible match and the limited research experience might win out. For me (a long time ago now) an honors thesis plus a few directed individual studies in undergrad was enough to get in to a clinical science program. I had no presentations or publications at the time of entry to graduate school.

Once you are in, it is also highly variable. Being a mentorship model, it will depend on the lab. At a minimum, you are looking at a master thesis and a dissertation. Sometimes a preliminary exam can be a research project or a theoretical paper or a test or a combination. This varies. Generally, some programs will include research activities within a class. For example, you might have an assignment such as writing a grant in a health psychology class. Some classes might require you to propose, run and complete a research project as part of the semester's activities. Hell, I did this when I taught an undergraduate psychology class. It is really quite variable.

Are there any schools you recommend that are more practitioner based? And thank you for helping, I really do appreciate it.

 

[LPPSYD]

Really, at places like George Fox University? They require a pastoral reference for admission.

That school's program itself is faith-based; it's built into the curriculum. That's not typical at all. I can see why that wouldn't be a good fit for you 🙂

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

That school's program itself is faith-based; it's built into the curriculum. That's not typical at all. I can see why that wouldn't be a good fit for you 🙂

So what other places would be good? You seem to be for the Psy.D. correct?

 

[LPPSYD]

So what other places would be good? You seem to be for the Psy.D. correct?

I am about to complete a PsyD program, though I don't think I would recommend going that route if you can get into a funded program. There is a lot I know now that I didn't know then, and I consider myself one of the lucky ones that found a decent program and matched to an APA-accredited site on the first try. If you plan to go for the PsyD, you need to make sure their APA internship match rate (not just the general match rate) is high. I believe 85% is what others on this forum suggest? It is tough trying to decipher the program stats though. My program is only 10 years old and has only had APA accreditation for 7 I think, so our internship match rate is all over the place. We also have a lot of locals who refuse to leave the area and subsequently drag down that rate, but my cohort did pretty well this year.

I am not all that familiar with other PsyD programs, though I did interview at quite a few of them in the Northeast. Whatever you do stay far away from the professional programs, like Argosy. Also make sure you are required to do an actual dissertation where you are collecting data and not just a glorified research paper. My program calls it a doctoral project and knowing how other programs define that term is embarrassing to be honest. I see now why we were told to emphasize that it is an empirical thesis and doctoral project when applying for internship.

I would listen to the advice of the regulars on this forum. Sometimes it can be blunt but everything they say is true and extremely valuable information. No reason to sugarcoat something so important.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

I would apply to more like 15 schools rather than 10 or fewer, as you were planning. In general, doctoral admissions can be a bit of a crap shoot, even when you are an awesome applicant. 15-ish is not uncommon.

Feel free to share more if you'd like, but I'm going to guess that you are likely not as attractive of an applicant as someone who has been prepping to apply to grad school for 3 or 4 yrs. (Making a high number of apps even more important). You were a psych major though? Otherwise, it might be hard to get enough letters of rec from psychology profs. You also will want psych profs to provide you some IRL guidance and read your statement of purpose.

Dr. E

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

I would apply to more like 15 schools rather than 10 or fewer, as you were planning. In general, doctoral admissions can be a bit of a crap shoot, even when you are an awesome applicant. 15-ish is not uncommon.

Feel free to share more if you'd like, but I'm going to guess that you are likely not as attractive of an applicant as someone who has been prepping to apply to grad school for 3 or 4 yrs. (Making a high number of apps even more important). You were a psych major though? Otherwise, it might be hard to get enough letters of rec from psychology profs. You also will want psych profs to provide you some IRL guidance and read your statement of purpose.

Dr. E

I PM'ed you Dr. E!

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I lost interest because all of the physicians I shadowed were money hungry, and did not care about the patient, they did not care about anything, but prescribing and did not really care what the patient's had to say. Theres more but lets just say I became disillusioned with medicine and much more interested in psychology. Just PM me if you want to know more.

That kinda sucks, all the physicians I saw were amazing and loved their job and their patients. They generally moved mountains to make sure their patients were ok.

And regarding prescription, that's what they do. Patients come to physicians who prescribe them meds knowing that there's a chance that they may not even come back next year.

Regardless, it seems like you want to practice/ clinical work. Instead of paying 200k for a Psy.D you could just always get your MD/DO and getting your degree in psychiatry and subspecialize in a field that is more therapy oriented as well as getting a livable wage with the same amount of debt as your Psy.D.

 

[Solipsism3]

If you decide to pursue a Psy.D. I strongly recommend that you add Indiana State University to your list. ISU has been APA accredited for 20+ years, offers significant funding, and has a great match rate. I am 4th year student in the program, so I'm definitely biased, but I am extremely glad I decided to earn my Psy.D. at ISU.

The program funds approximately 80% of tuition costs through tuition remission. Additionally, 1st and 2nd year students are guaranteed an assistantship. Essentially, I made money through the program my first two years. I have had to take out loans, but nowhere near $100K. The program has established solid relationships with practicum sites for 3rd and 4th year students that pay significantly better than the assistantships. Despite what others have posted, ISU offers a road to a Psy.D. without having to incur debilitating debt.

This past match cycle 9 ISU students matched at APA accredited internship sites. The program had a 100% APA match rate last year. I believe the APA stats stated that ISU has a 91.7% match rate for the past 10 years. This past year several students matched at VAs, and two others were accepted into the Air Force's internship program. Other past students have matched at very competitive neuropsych sites and university affiliated medical centers.

Regarding the feel and format of the program at ISU, it does follow a practitioner-scholar model, but there is a considerable focus on research. We must complete a dissertation along with other lengthy research papers. That said, the program produces clinicians not researchers for academia. The program typically receives ~110 applications, interviews 30-40 canidates, and accepts 8-9 students. There is a very friendly and supportive vibe between students here. I always see that Baylor and Rutgers are considered the top Psy.D. programs, but it seems strange to me that ISU is not mentioned alongside them. Perhaps it is because ISU is in Terre Haute, which is not the coolest place to live. Anyways, look into ISU and good luck.

 

[KillerDiller]

If you decide to pursue a Psy.D. I strongly recommend that you add Indiana State University to your list. ISU has been APA accredited for 20+ years, offers significant funding, and has a great match rate. I am 4th year student in the program, so I'm definitely biased, but I am extremely glad I decided to earn my Psy.D. at ISU.

The program funds approximately 80% of tuition costs through tuition remission. Additionally, 1st and 2nd year students are guaranteed an assistantship. Essentially, I made money through the program my first two years. I have had to take out loans, but nowhere near $100K. The program has established solid relationships with practicum sites for 3rd and 4th year students that pay significantly better than the assistantships. Despite what others have posted, ISU offers a road to a Psy.D. without having to incur debilitating debt.

This past match cycle 9 ISU students matched at APA accredited internship sites. The program had a 100% APA match rate last year. I believe the APA stats stated that ISU has a 91.7% match rate for the past 10 years. This past year several students matched at VAs, and two others were accepted into the Air Force's internship program. Other past students have matched at very competitive neuropsych sites and university affiliated medical centers.

Regarding the feel and format of the program at ISU, it does follow a practitioner-scholar model, but there is a considerable focus on research. We must complete a dissertation along with other lengthy research papers. That said, the program produces clinicians not researchers for academia. The program typically receives ~110 applications, interviews 30-40 canidates, and accepts 8-9 students. There is a very friendly and supportive vibe between students here. I always see that Baylor and Rutgers are considered the top Psy.D. programs, but it seems strange to me that ISU is not mentioned alongside them. Perhaps it is because ISU is in Terre Haute, which is not the coolest place to live. Anyways, look into ISU and good luck.

It's an easy shortcut to say PsyD = a free standing professional school or a university-based program that is run like a free standing professional school. After all, this is true for the majority of PsyD programs. However, the above demonstrates that this isn't always the case. ISU should make its way onto the list of exempted/acceptable PsyD programs along with Baylor and Rutgers. (Rutgers often gets misconstrued as fully-funded when in actuality it is not). In short, for the OP and others in similar situations, if you can find a PsyD program that has the following, you are probably making a decent decision:

1. A funding situation that allows for students to get through the program taking out less than a typical year's salary in loans (probably <65K, because it's a fallacy to assume you'll make better than average)
2. Small incoming cohorts
3. High APA internship match rates
4. High EPPP pass rates
5. Some original research experience required, even if it is not the primary focus

At this point you may as well also apply to balanced or clinically-focused PhD programs, as there will be few differences between these and the scattered PsyD programs that provide all of the above.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

If you decide to pursue a Psy.D. I strongly recommend that you add Indiana State University to your list. ISU has been APA accredited for 20+ years, offers significant funding, and has a great match rate. I am 4th year student in the program, so I'm definitely biased, but I am extremely glad I decided to earn my Psy.D. at ISU.

The program funds approximately 80% of tuition costs through tuition remission. Additionally, 1st and 2nd year students are guaranteed an assistantship. Essentially, I made money through the program my first two years. I have had to take out loans, but nowhere near $100K. The program has established solid relationships with practicum sites for 3rd and 4th year students that pay significantly better than the assistantships. Despite what others have posted, ISU offers a road to a Psy.D. without having to incur debilitating debt.

This past match cycle 9 ISU students matched at APA accredited internship sites. The program had a 100% APA match rate last year. I believe the APA stats stated that ISU has a 91.7% match rate for the past 10 years. This past year several students matched at VAs, and two others were accepted into the Air Force's internship program. Other past students have matched at very competitive neuropsych sites and university affiliated medical centers.

Regarding the feel and format of the program at ISU, it does follow a practitioner-scholar model, but there is a considerable focus on research. We must complete a dissertation along with other lengthy research papers. That said, the program produces clinicians not researchers for academia. The program typically receives ~110 applications, interviews 30-40 canidates, and accepts 8-9 students. There is a very friendly and supportive vibe between students here. I always see that Baylor and Rutgers are considered the top Psy.D. programs, but it seems strange to me that ISU is not mentioned alongside them. Perhaps it is because ISU is in Terre Haute, which is not the coolest place to live. Anyways, look into ISU and good luck.

Good call. I'll add them, looks like a pretty good school and a decent place to live.

 

[PHD12]

This past match cycle 9 ISU students matched at APA accredited internship sites. The program had a 100% APA match rate last year. I believe the APA stats stated that ISU has a 91.7% match rate for the past 10 years. This past year several students matched at VAs, and two others were accepted into the Air Force's internship program. Other past students have matched at very competitive neuropsych sites and university affiliated medical centers.

This is not accurate. The last 4 years of data that is available (2008-2012), ISU has had APA match rates ranging from 50-78%. They have not gone above 78% in 5 years. The match rate last year was only 50%, not 100% as you state. We have no idea if the rest of your post regarding funding is even accurate. Please don't post inaccurate information about your program.

http://www.indstate.edu/psychology/psyd_program/Psychology Tables.pdf#nameddest=Completion

 

[AcronymAllergy]

This is not accurate. The last 4 years of data that is available (2008-2012), ISU has had APA match rates ranging from 50-78%. They have not gone above 78% in 5 years. The match rate last year was only 50%, not 100% as you state. We have no idea if the rest of your post regarding funding is even accurate. Please don't post inaccurate information about your program.

http://www.indstate.edu/psychology/psyd_program/Psychology Tables.pdf#nameddest=Completion

Their average from 2005-2012 looks to be right at 79%, which isn't generally very bad, all things considered. I also believe the poster might've been referring to a 100% APA match rate in the students who actually sought APA internships, although there's really no way of verifying that.

Although I agree that it seems disingenuous to say last year's APA match rate was 100%, when the website shows it as 50%. And also as you've mentioned, there's been a downward trend in recent years for ISU's APA match rate, which also coincides with the growing internship imbalance. However, there's not really any way of telling if this is due to fewer students applying to APA sites, perhaps the program removing a requirement that students obtain APA internships sometime within the past few years, a general decline in APA match rates despite the same proportion of students applying to APA sites, or any other number of factors.

I believe (if I'm remembering correctly) that I've heard good things about the program overall, but I have no first-hand (or even second-hand) knowledge of it myself.

 

[HomeworkHelper]

This is not accurate. The last 4 years of data that is available (2008-2012), ISU has had APA match rates ranging from 50-78%. They have not gone above 78% in 5 years. The match rate last year was only 50%, not 100% as you state. We have no idea if the rest of your post regarding funding is even accurate. Please don't post inaccurate information about your program.

http://www.indstate.edu/psychology/psyd_program/Psychology Tables.pdf#nameddest=Completion

I'm not sure if it helps any, but the table lists the 2011-2012 cycle as the most recent year. It does not list the 2012-2013, which could be the last year that this individual is referring to that had a higher match rate.

 

[Solipsism3]

This is not accurate. The last 4 years of data that is available (2008-2012), ISU has had APA match rates ranging from 50-78%. They have not gone above 78% in 5 years. The match rate last year was only 50%, not 100% as you state. We have no idea if the rest of your post regarding funding is even accurate. Please don't post inaccurate information about your program.

http://www.indstate.edu/psychology/psyd_program/Psychology Tables.pdf#nameddest=Completion

I apologize if my previous post seemed misleading or inaccurate. When I stated that "this past match cycle 9 ISU students matched at APA accredited internship sites," I was in fact referring to those who match in Febuarary of 2013. ISU did have a 100% APA match rate in 2013, 9 for 9. Also, when I referred to the 91.7% match rate I was recalling the stats listed on the link below.

http://www.appic.org/Portals/0/downloads/APPIC_Match_Rates_2000-10_by_State.pdf

Thank you PhD12 for posting the link to the program data on the ISU website, but it shows that the actual range between 2005 and 2012 is 100%(2005) - 50%(2012) for APA internship sites. The information I posted regarding funding is an approximation (~80% funded) as noted in my previous post. There are slight changes in funding from year to year, but the program at ISU has always provided significant funding for Psy.D. students during the past 25 years.

Perhaps my first post was unclear, but the information I shared was not inaccurate. I take offense to the insinuation that I was intentionally disingenuous.

 

[HomeworkHelper]

I lost interest because all of the physicians I shadowed were money hungry, and did not care about the patient, they did not care about anything, but prescribing and did not really care what the patient's had to say. Theres more but lets just say I became disillusioned with medicine and much more interested in psychology. Just PM me if you want to know more.

That's too bad. I wonder if it was a function of the sample of folks you shadowed. I was interested in medicine for a while before switching to Clinical Psych. A number of folks in my family are DO physicians, so I have had a lot of interactions with physicians (mostly DOs, I would say) over the years, such as family friends and coworkers. I have never gotten the impression that any of them had the characteristics that you mentioned, either in speaking with them or shadowing a subset of them. I switched away from medicine not because of the people but because I realized I was not interested in learning about all the things I would have to learn during medical school...and that I was much more interested in psychology. If I were to make any suggestions, it might be to see what you think about shadowing different physicians and considering a DO instead of an MD. I have heard there may be personality differences in who chooses to apply to which type of medical program. The reason why I suggest this is that you seem to have had some negative experiences that may not be fully representative and you may be less well positioned for psychology since you haven't been preparing for it as long (and have a lack of research).

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

That's too bad. I wonder if it was a function of the sample of folks you shadowed. I was interested in medicine for a while before switching to Clinical Psych. A number of folks in my family are DO physicians, so I have had a lot of interactions with physicians (mostly DOs, I would say) over the years, such as family friends and coworkers. I have never gotten the impression that any of them had the characteristics that you mentioned, either in speaking with them or shadowing a subset of them. I switched away from medicine not because of the people but because I realized I was not interested in learning about all the things I would have to learn during medical school...and that I was much more interested in psychology. If I were to make any suggestions, it might be to see what you think about shadowing different physicians and considering a DO instead of an MD. I have heard there may be personality differences in who chooses to apply to which type of medical program. The reason why I suggest this is that you seem to have had some negative experiences that may not be fully representative and you may be less well positioned for psychology since you haven't been preparing for it as long (and have a lack of research).

I shadowed a DO for a short time. I actually intended on applying to some DO schools. I liked the idea of it at the time.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

I PM'ed you Dr. E!

I PM'd you back! 🙂

 

[PHD12]

I apologize if my previous post seemed misleading or inaccurate. When I stated that "this past match cycle 9 ISU students matched at APA accredited internship sites," I was in fact referring to those who match in Febuarary of 2013. ISU did have a 100% APA match rate in 2013, 9 for 9. Also, when I referred to the 91.7% match rate I was recalling the stats listed on the link below.

http://www.appic.org/Portals/0/downloads/APPIC_Match_Rates_2000-10_by_State.pdf

Thank you PhD12 for posting the link to the program data on the ISU website, but it shows that the actual range between 2005 and 2012 is 100%(2005) - 50%(2012) for APA internship sites. The information I posted regarding funding is an approximation (~80% funded) as noted in my previous post.
Perhaps my first post was unclear, but the information I shared was not inaccurate. I take offense to the insinuation that I was intentionally disingenuous.

I NEVER stated that you were intentionally misleading. I said that your post was inaccurate, which was true. You directly stated that last year (not 2013) the match rate was 100% and that this year 9 people matched. I acknowledge that this could have been an honest mistake. See below:

"This past match cycle 9 ISU students matched at APA accredited internship sites. The program had a 100% APA match rate last year. "

Anyhow, my correction was not a personal assault on you specifically. It's really important though to post accurate information when people are basing their future decisions on this advice. 50% vs. 100% is really a huge difference. I personally would not apply to a program like ISU that has had several recent years where the match rate has been 50-78%. I was including the last 5 years, not the past 8 years (2005 till now) because that is when the internship imbalance got worse. I am not counting 2013 because those numbers are not official (published on the website), and i've seen many people on this forum confusing their school's match rates. It sounds like the program has decent funding and the class size is pretty good.

 

[futureapppsy2]

It's an easy shortcut to say PsyD = a free standing professional school or a university-based program that is run like a free standing professional school. After all, this is true for the majority of PsyD programs. However, the above demonstrates that this isn't always the case. ISU should make its way onto the list of exempted/acceptable PsyD programs along with Baylor and Rutgers. (Rutgers often gets misconstrued as fully-funded when in actuality it is not). In short, for the OP and others in similar situations, if you can find a PsyD program that has the following, you are probably making a decent decision:

1. A funding situation that allows for students to get through the program taking out less than a typical year's salary in loans (probably <65K, because it's a fallacy to assume you'll make better than average)
2. Small incoming cohorts
3. High APA internship match rates
4. High EPPP pass rates
5. Some original research experience required, even if it is not the primary focus

At this point you may as well also apply to balanced or clinically-focused PhD programs, as there will be few differences between these and the scattered PsyD programs that provide all of the above.

To be fair, if you apply a strict definition of fully funded. there are MANY well-regarded, funded university-based PhD programs that wouldn't meet it. True full-funding (full tuition waiver and full stipend, guaranteed to everyone, for the duration of the program) is actually somewhat rare, especially outside of very research-focused programs. That's not to say that many students can't and don't get out of those programs with no or minimal/manageable debt--and they're *certainly* better than programs with no/minimal funding--but "truly fully-funded" programs are much rarer than most might think.

I agree the Indiana State is a solid PsyD program, and one I've frequently recommended, along with Baylor. Rutgers, and IU-P.

 

[KillerDiller]

To be fair, if you apply a strict definition of fully funded. there are MANY well-regarded, funded university-based PhD programs that wouldn't meet it. True full-funding (full tuition waiver and full stipend, guaranteed to everyone, for the duration of the program) is actually somewhat rare, especially outside of very research-focused programs. That's not to say that many students can't and don't get out of those programs with no or minimal/manageable debt--and they're *certainly* better than programs with no/minimal funding--but "truly fully-funded" programs are much rarer than most might think.

I agree the Indiana State is a solid PsyD program, and one I've frequently recommended, along with Baylor. Rutgers, and IU-P.

I don't have anything against partially funded programs as long as they meet the criteria I posted (that's why I worded criterion 1 that way). I'm just tired of seeing Rutgers touted as fully-funded when it is not.

 

[futureapppsy2]

I don't have anything against partially funded programs as long as they meet the criteria I posted (that's why I worded criterion 1 that way). I'm just tired of seeing Rutgers touted as fully-funded when it is not.

I agree. I was just pointing out that I see the term "fully funded" used loosely/inaccurately for many programs other than Rutgers as.well, including a lot of PhD program, so, it's not just a Rutgers thing.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

I agree. I was just pointing out that I see the term "fully funded" used loosely/inaccurately for many programs other than Rutgers as.well, including a lot of PhD program, so, it's not just a Rutgers thing.

Well thank you guys for the help, if there are any other programs that you recommend, please let me know, or if there are any other pros or cons to the schools that were previously listed.

 

[PsyDLICSW]

Also, it's worth noting that the IL program of Midwestern isn't APA accredited. They applied and were actually denied a couple of years ago and are currently reapplying, I think. The AZ program is accredited, but both are incredibly expensive.

I've known some really good psychologists associated with Wright State (in OH, not to be confused with the Wright Institute in CA), but I don't know about the funding situation.

Generally, your best bets for a funded PsyD program are Baylor, Rutgers, and Indiana U-Pennsylvania (IU-P).

Marshall provides funding also. Both Marshall and IUP provide all incoming students with the opportunity for a 10 hour GA that pays half tuition. IUP advertized (four years ago when I applied) that they provided full funding, but only those with 20 hour GAs got full funding because there were very few 20 hour GAs and most students did 10 hour GAs for half funding. I don't know what the case is at IUP now. As far as I know, Baylor, Rutgers, IUP, and Marshall provide at least 50% of tuition assistance.

 

[PsyDLICSW]

If you want a career in the military, you are going to need an APA internship as a requirement. PsyD graduates, on average, have a tougher time landing an apa internship and getting positions with the federal government because many of these careers value the scientist-practitioner model and research. Many of the programs on your list have poor apa match rates (50% or so) so they will not be a great fit with your goals and put you into significant debt to boot. Baylor and Rutgers have excellent outcomes and match rates, but they accept 5% or less of applicants.

Actually, the low match rates refer to free standing professional schools. IUP, Rutgers, Marshall, and Wright State have good match rates. To the OP, my university-based PsyD program (PM me if you want more details) has a two-year VA practicum placement and ALL VA practicum students in my program match first round to APA -accredited VA or military-based internships and attain VA post-docs. My program has a 100% match rate and 90% match to APA sites. Given the imbalance, I think those are good rates as any.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Marshall provides funding also. Both Marshall and IUP provide all incoming students with the opportunity for a 10 hour GA that pays half tuition. IUP advertized (four years ago when I applied) that they provided full funding, but only those with 20 hour GAs got full funding because there were very few 20 hour GAs and most students did 10 hour GAs for half funding. I don't know what the case is at IUP now. As far as I know, Baylor, Rutgers, IUP, and Marshall provide at least 50% of tuition assistance.

Good to know about Marshall; thanks for the info. 🙂

 

[PHD12]

Actually, the low match rates refer to free standing professional schools. IUP, Rutgers, Marshall, and Wright State have good match rates. To the OP, my university-based PsyD program (PM me if you want more details) has a two-year VA practicum placement and ALL VA practicum students in my program match first round to APA -accredited VA or military-based internships and attain VA post-docs. My program has a 100% match rate and 90% match to APA sites. Given the imbalance, I think those are good rates as any.

Not exactly. Marshall does not have good match rates. Where are you getting your data or are you just assuming? They have APA match rates ranging from 17% to 75% from 2006-2012. I would not recommend their program as a result. Way too risky.

http://www.marshall.edu/wpmu/psych/files/2012/09/Student-Admissions-11-12.pdf

IUP's rates have been from 50%-81% since 2006. Not great either. I believe there are only two PsyD programs that have consistently high APA match rates even during the imbalance, Baylor and Rutgers. This is not uncommon for good PhD programs.

 

[KillerDiller]

Not exactly. Marshall does not have good match rates. Where are you getting your data or are you just assuming? They have APA match rates ranging from 17% to 75% from 2006-2012. I would not recommend their program as a result. Way too risky.

http://www.marshall.edu/wpmu/psych/files/2012/09/Student-Admissions-11-12.pdf

IUP's rates have been from 50%-81% since 2006. Not great either. I believe there are only two PsyD programs that have consistently high APA match rates even during the imbalance, Baylor and Rutgers. This is not uncommon for good PhD programs.

Yeah, after searching for several minutes, I couldn't find data on Wright State's website about internship match rates or the size of their incoming cohorts. Considering that every APA accredited program is mandated to post this data, this doesn't bode well. Are they hiding it somewhere?

OP: this just goes to show that you'll need to do your homework on all the programs that make it onto your application list. There is a lot of misinformation out there..

 

[erg923]

What about Marshall's Psy.D program? It happened to be in my region and Marshall is regarded as a good school, but I NEVER hear anyone mention it.