Psych Applicants for '08

[ioh]

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Hey guys, I'm fairly new to the forum so first I'd like to thank everyone for all the information you've provided in older threads. I've been frequenting the search feature and am grateful for your shared wisdom.

Since ERAS opened a couple days ago I'm starting this thread to see who else is applying for psychiatry for 2008. I've been spending quite a bit of time lately researching which programs to apply to, so hopefully the non-applicants will be able to help with that. Look forward to meeting some of you on the interview trail this fall!

 

[JMC_MarineCorps]

Hey guys, I'm fairly new to the forum so first I'd like to thank everyone for all the information you've provided in older threads. I've been frequenting the search feature and am grateful for your shared wisdom.

Since ERAS opened a couple days ago I'm starting this thread to see who else is applying for psychiatry for 2008. I've been spending quite a bit of time lately researching which programs to apply to, so hopefully the non-applicants will be able to help with that. Look forward to meeting some of you on the interview trail this fall!

West Coast psych trail hopeful here...socal specifically, possibly with an interest in one or two FL programs.

JMC

 

[jjbmsiv]

Alright, well before this thread takes off asking these kinds of Q's, I'm gonna try to be helpful by heading you guys off at the pass and giving a kind of guideline for how your MSIV year should go (having gone through this all myself last year):

Jul-Sept: Focus on working hard getting letters of Reccomendation. Preferably one or two non-psych to 2 or 3 psych, but it can vary. Having letters from an OBGYN or Int. Med attending will break up the monotony of applicants having 3 psych letters plus 1 Family Med... though, hey, that's okay too, as I was one of those people myself, and I like to think I got into a damn fine program! Also, try to complete your final CV and Personal statement by the end of July, as many attendings like to have this BEFORE writing up a LoR for you.

October: Rec letters are due, and if you haven't done it by now, fill out ERAS! Also, many Dean's Letters are in their finalization process by this point, but often programs will not actually release them until November. You may also want to have tackled one or both parts of Step 2 by the end of this month. Putting it off further is PAINFUL at best.

Nov-Jan: Interview time! Some people prefer to schedule a month off and do all their interviews at one 2 week stretch, then take 2 weeks for Step 2 CK/CS, but I personally think this is short-sighted on both ends. CK is definitely harder than people seem to make it out to be, and at the same time doing 4 interviews in five days makes it really tough to separate out the good from the bad by time the weekend rolls around- you end up catching your breath and then say "What the hell did I just do?" "Which one of them had the nice call rooms? Which one was q4? Crap!"

Hope that helped, even if it was unsolicited. Good luck guys! And have fun this year: it's going to be your last chance at some freedom for a long time. Enjoy it.

 

[Nutshell]

Hi, I'm entering the 2008 psych draft. Looking forward to meeting some of you during interviews and helping where I can.

NS

 

[atsai3]

and if you haven't done it by now, fill out ERAS!

All good points. I wanted to emphasize: fill out ERAS! Even if your Step 2 scores aren't in, even if your letters aren't in, even if you are waiting on doing an away elective, even if you are waiting for grade X in rotation Y, etc. Just fill out ERAS. Many programs will issue interview invitations on the basis of ERAS alone. (The year I applied, I received 4 interview offers within 2 weeks of submitting my ERAS in September, and another 3 offers within the month.)

-AT.

 

[Rpre19]

thanks for the info guys & I juts might see u if you're on the east side 😎

 

[Chrismander]

Thanks to the above posters for your insight into this crazy process.
One question though--how many LoR's do we need? I couldn't tell from the above poster whether it was 3 or 4. Is a Peds attending all right if I did better in that than medicine?
Thanks for your help!
Chris

 

[jjbmsiv]

3 seems to be the bare minimum, though there are plenty that have this requirement. 4 is pretty common too, though... so I urge you to err on the safe side and get the extra letter as to not overlook many great programs out of sheer laziness.

 

[atsai3]

Thanks to the above posters for your insight into this crazy process.
One question though--how many LoR's do we need? I couldn't tell from the above poster whether it was 3 or 4. Is a Peds attending all right if I did better in that than medicine?
Thanks for your help!
Chris

Generally if you have 4 letters in your file you should be fine. Exact number varies from program to program. Some programs have an explicit requirement that one of your letters come from a non-psych attending (eg., if I remember correctly, Cambridge Hospital). Peds letter should be fine. Some programs (eg., University of Washington) give you the option of completing peds rotations instead of internal med rotations during your intern year. Many interns, esp. those interested in child psych, go this route.

-AT.

 

[musm2008]

2008 applicant here too. I'm finishing my PS now and going to start bugging attendings for LORs. Does anyone know how that works? Do they send the letters directly to the Dean's office?
I'm applying to schools in New England. Hoping for a Boston program, but I would love being in NH or VT.

 

[werewethere]

For LoRs, you should provide the attendings with a brief CV (2 pgs or less) and personal statement, so that the letter can be written personalized a little. Also provide an ERAS coversheet, your OSA should have it. This form details the format in which the letter should be written and the person in your OSA that it should be sent to. Finally, sign the ERAS coversheet and determine if you will wave your right to review the letter. Most people will wave the right to see it since programs tend to treat any student reviewed letter as being suspect for content (i.e. prescreened). Good luck. Oh, and make sure you give them plenty of time and the deadline you need these letters written by, some people can take months to get them in, especially if they have heavy academic responsibilities or like to vacation a lot.

 

[iheartpirates]

2008 applicant. currently bothering attendings for LORs and writing my PS. should be a busy few months...

 

[atsai3]

I'm finishing my PS now and going to start bugging attendings for LORs. Does anyone know how that works?

No need to start "bugging" them right away. You get your first wave of interview offers the week or two after you turn in your ERAS (hopefully in September). Then it slows to a trickle. And then you get the second wave of interview offers after the Dean's Letter is released in November. It is possible that a shining letter from a famous department chair could prompt an interview offer, but my experience and the experiences of my classmates suggest that, really, programs are just waiting on the ERAS or the Dean's Letter to pull the initial trigger. The rest of your interview offers will trickle in after the Dean's Letter, as other candidates start canceling their interviews once they get a better sense for how many interviews they need to actually attend in order to have a reasonable shot at matching.

So, it would be reasonable to provide your attending with your materials (described by the previous poster) maybe 4-6 weeks in advance of when you want your letter to be turned in. At the time, tell your attending "I don't need the letter now, but I wanted to give you all the materials so that you can plan around your grant applications / weeks you will be on service / vacations. Would you be able to have the letter mailed to my student dean by September 15?" Once you agree on an approximate date, let the attending know you will send her a reminder. "If it's okay with you, I'd like to send you a reminder e-mail/page/call about 10 days before then." The reminder is important, because many attendings will just shove your materials in a drawer and forget about them until they get your second e-mail. And it is important to tell them up front that you plan on sending them a reminder, because when they do get your reminder phone call, they will be less likely to perceive that you are "bugging" them. ("Oh yeah. musm2008 did tell me that he would be calling me to remind me about it.") In this respect, the reminder e-mail works quite well, because when the time comes, you can just hit "Reply-To" on the original request you sent, and that in itself will remind them that you had informed them four weeks ago that you would be reminding them today. I promise to never again type out a sentence as convoluted as the previous.

All but one of my attendings liked this process. (The one who didn't like it was an extremely busy -- and forgetful -- person. "If you give this stuff to me now, I'm just going to lose it. Can you just give it to me the week before you need it? And I'll make sure to get it in that week.")

-AT.

 

[musm2008]

I really don't like the idea of giving my attendings my PERSONAL statement. I designed it with admissions committees in mind, not my attendings who already know me. I understand that it should be done- just doesn't feel right to me.

 

[DebDynamite]

Hello everyone. I'm applying to SE & SW programs. I'm so happy to be ending 3rd year and starting (mostly Psych) 4th year. I'm stoked to be doing one month outpt Psych, 2 weeks forensics, one month Emergency Psych (hopefully- the "away" response is still pending), and another away in some TBA psych elective. Happy ERAS to us all.

 

[FURY 161]

Can anyboby tell me how the application process is for changing a program. I plan to change my program and begin my PGY 3 in a different program. Is it done through ERAS?

 

[atsai3]

Can anyboby tell me how the application process is for changing a program. I plan to change my program and begin my PGY 3 in a different program. Is it done through ERAS?

Transferring into a PGY3 spot happens less often than transferring into a PGY2 spot, but it happens. (eg., last year, one of the Stanford EM PGY3's transferred out because her husband got a job somewhere else.) Unless the program you are transferring into has a formal apparatus for accepting new PGY3's, then the same issues would apply as if you wanted to transfer into a PGY2 spot. The transfer process has been discussed in previous threads recently, for example here (Dec '06) and here (Apr '07).

Searching the SDN forums is likely to yield further information that may be useful to you. However, that may take some time and it is often easier to post a question without searching the archives in the hopes that someone takes the time to search the archives for you.

-AT.

 

[chocomorsel]

Hello everyone. I'm applying to SE & SW programs. I'm so happy to be ending 3rd year and starting (mostly Psych) 4th year. I'm stoked to be doing one month outpt Psych, 2 weeks forensics, one month Emergency Psych (hopefully- the "away" response is still pending), and another away in some TBA psych elective. Happy ERAS to us all.

Hey, I'm applying to the SW and SE programs as well. Texas, Georgia, NC, maybe SC and TN. Maybe we'll run into each other on the interview trail. Good luck to all.
I do have one question though, interview suits. What do the residents think about not so traditional colors in psych. Would it be ok if i veered a little from the black, brown, navy and grey? I have an olive green suit that I kinda want to wear. I don't want to look like I'm going to a funeral, but I know I need to be somewhat conservative. Thanks

 

[jjbmsiv]

I always encourage people to wear whatever the hell you want- I think it's absurd to feel one has to conform to such standards. Then again, I'm fairly libertarian. FWIW, it seemed 90% of people last year, men and women both, wore black suits.

EDIT - I wore a black suit, myself. This was more a matter of that was the suit I owned that was the correct size & fit than anything else.

 

[golfpropsychguy]

Is four letters from all psych not the way to go even if they are all from pretty reputable people. I have one letter from a Peds program director that is really great.

any advice would be great.
thanks

 

[atsai3]

Is four letters from all psych not the way to go even if they are all from pretty reputable people. I have one letter from a Peds program director that is really great.

any advice would be great.
thanks

Varies from program to program. Some programs have an explicit requirement that one of your letters come from a non-psych attending (eg., Cambridge Hospital). At the very least, you should solicit a non-psych letter to put in your file in case you need it to apply to some of these certain programs. (To pre-empt "which programs require non-psych letters?" questions, my reply would be that it would be to your benefit to look at the Web sites and application guidelines for all the programs to which you are applying.)

I don't have any survey data on the preferences of psych program directors regarding the following question: for a reasonably competitive applicant, would you prefer 4 psych letters or 3 psych letters and 1 non-psych letter? Anecdotally, I know at least one psych PD on the west coast who would value the non-psych letter to the extent that it provides some data regarding your roundedness. And that would seem to make some sense. If the 4th psych letter pretty much confirms the content in the first 3 psych letters, then it is less valuable as additional data (to the program director evaluating your candidacy) than a letter from a non psych attending. Additionally, during your intern year, you will be doing medicine and/or pediatrics rotations. It reflects poorly on the program as a whole when one of the "psych interns" struggles on the medicine or peds ward teams, and it's kind of a hassle for the program director to have to arrange for remediation months for you.

So my non-data based response is that, unless the program to which you are applying has explicit guidelines on what kinds of letters they would like, a peds letter should be fine. Some programs (eg., University of Washington) give you the option of completing peds rotations instead of internal med rotations during your intern year. Many interns, esp. those interested in child psych, go this route. So for a program like that, a peds letter could be of benefit.

-AT.

 

[atsai3]

What do the residents think about not so traditional colors in psych. Would it be ok if i veered a little from the black, brown, navy and grey? I have an olive green suit that I kinda want to wear. I don't want to look like I'm going to a funeral, but I know I need to be somewhat conservative. Thanks

There are many ways to stand out as an applicant for residency programs. Attire is not one of them. There's simply no upside, only downside, to having an (however narrowminded and/or conservative) interviewer's attention focused on your attire rather than on the selling points of your candidacy.

-AT.

 

[winchester1615]

Hi all. I'm also applying for psych this year. I am aiming for NYC, maybe Boston. I have two questions...
1) How many programs do people normally apply to?
2) Any advice on the personal statement? (Content, length, etc.) I'm not sure how important it is to include where I see myself in the future. I am interested in many different areas of psych and really don't know what I want to do yet. Is this bad?

Thanks so much!

 

[PsychMD2100]

From my limited experience, I'd say average AMGs will apply to 10 programs and they'll usually match in their top 3 or 4 on their rank list.

Don't worry about not knowing what fellowship you want to do. People feel compelled to know what they're doing after residency. This is premature since, like med school, people and preferences change over time. Many people that thought they'd do one fellowship will do a different one, or not do a fellowship at all.

 

[atsai3]

Hi all. I'm also applying for psych this year. I am aiming for NYC, maybe Boston. I have two questions...
1) How many programs do people normally apply to?
2) Any advice on the personal statement? (Content, length, etc.) I'm not sure how important it is to include where I see myself in the future. I am interested in many different areas of psych and really don't know what I want to do yet. Is this bad?

Thanks so much!

1) Most of my classmates (those applying to psych) applied to ~10 programs, 15 max. I applied to 22 initially but cancelled 12 of them after the first week. (I cancelled these interviews partly because I was tired of interviewing, as I had 4 interview days in my first week and a redeye flight on the last; and partly because I decided there was just absolutely no way I would consider those 12 programs either for geographical or programmatic reasons. In retrospect, one could say that my initially applying was a big waste of money. Perhaps I should have simply settled my mind sooner and saved some cash.)

2) If you feel it is important for the admissions committee to get a sense for where you see yourself in the future, by all means write about it. If you see yourself as undifferentiated that this point, that's okay too. Certainly you may be asked about your future plans at your interview, and if you have no clue or have only a hazy sense for the future, then it would be okay to admit to that. About half of my intern class started internship thinking that they wanted to do child psych, and half of them changed their minds within the first month.

Cheers
-AT.

 

[sga430]

make sure u apply on day 1. use every advantage. if ur an img, apply wide.

 

[musm2008]

Hi all. I'm also applying for psych this year. I am aiming for NYC, maybe Boston. I have two questions...
1) How many programs do people normally apply to?
2) Any advice on the personal statement? (Content, length, etc.) I'm not sure how important it is to include where I see myself in the future. I am interested in many different areas of psych and really don't know what I want to do yet. Is this bad?

Thanks so much!

I think 10 or so programs is good too. I wouldn't feel comfortable taking more days off than that. Plus locaton is imortant.

That's how i was planning to do my PS. I was wondering if anyone else knows if that's the kinda stuff admissions committees like to hear about?

 

[enanareina]

Hey guys, I'll see you on the interview trail! I'm applying mostly in Texas, around Houston. I've filled out some ERAS, but have no letters yet, as I recently switched from urology and am playing catch-up in psych.🙂

 

[tennreb]

I'm applying as well. I'll be on the trail in Texas, Tenn, Georgia, SC, and Louisiana. I'm doing two visiting electives at Baylor in Houston this fall as well.

 

[enanareina]

I'm applying as well. I'll be on the trail in Texas, Tenn, Georgia, SC, and Louisiana. I'm doing two visiting electives at Baylor in Houston this fall as well.

When are you at Baylor? I'm there in August. They told me yesterday (for the first time) that they want 2 letters of rec, my cv, and a statement of why I want to go to Baylor--and my rotation starts Monday! 😱

 

[sga430]

also if u r an img try and do an externship.

___________________
How To Get a Residency & Pass the USMLE ~ My Blog - CLICK HERE!

 

[tennreb]

When are you at Baylor? I'm there in August. They told me yesterday (for the first time) that they want 2 letters of rec, my cv, and a statement of why I want to go to Baylor--and my rotation starts Monday! 😱

I'll be there in November and December. I got those requests as well. I assume they are just to keep on file for residency application purposes and not really to do the rotation there, or maybe they just want to learn a little about us before we get there.

 

[Chrismander]

I'll be doing my sub-i in medicine october and december (my school splits sub-i's if they fall in the interview season). that leaves me november totally off and january when i'll be doing an elective but can take a bunch of days off to interview. to my knowledge, we're not allowed to take off during our sub-i for interviewing.
basically, am i gonna have enough time in just nov and jan to squeeze in ~10-15 interviews, and will places be offering interviews in time for me? i worry because i've seen some places that don't start interviews until dec--so if a lot of places are like that, i wouldn't be able to do all my interviews in just jan (at least not without failing my jan clerkship for missing every frickin day).
how many places will be interviewing in November? do any places interview right away at the end of sept or early october?

also, do i have to send college transcripts to ERAS somehow? i haven't seen any instructions to do this, but it seems weird not to have to.

Chris

 

[sikegeek]

I don't think you have to send college transcripts. I guess they figure that the medical school admission process takes care of that.

 

[atsai3]

basically, am i gonna have enough time in just nov and jan to squeeze in ~10-15 interviews, and will places be offering interviews in time for me?

<SNIP>

how many places will be interviewing in November? do any places interview right away at the end of sept or early october?

That should be plenty of time. You can do at least 1 interview per week if not 2-3 (if they are clustered geographically).

In terms of when programs start interviewing season, it varies by program and the dates vary from year to year. Some programs post this information on their Web site, e.g. IIRC UCLA does this. Really, the best way for you to collect this data would be to call each program administrator and ask them when their first interview date will be. It could potentially be a valuable service to the SDN community to start a new thread about first & last interview dates by program.

Some programs will begin sending out their interview invites in September once they've downloaded your ERAS form (even if they don't have your letters or grades); however, I do not recall any programs that offer interviews in September. When I went through the process, I tried to schedule all of my interviews early, and my first interview was in mid-November. I completed 12 interviews in 5 weeks.

-AT.

 

[kumar28]

just wondering if a lor from a peds outpt doctor is ok? does that look bad?

 

[sga430]

just wondering if a lor from a peds outpt doctor is ok? does that look bad?

especially not if u say ur interested in child psychiatry. make sure u use some psych letters.

_____________
How To Get a Residency & Pass the USMLE ~ My Blog - CLICK HERE!

 

[atsai3]

just wondering if a lor from a peds outpt doctor is ok? does that look bad?

See post #21 in this thread.

-AT.

 

[yeti00]

Hello all,

Also throwing my hat in the ring this year, most likely as a triple board applicant (want to end up in child psych). Just opened up ERAS, asked for LORs, et al.

Good luck everyone!

 

[Chrismander]

There was a sub-thread earlier in this post regarding how conservative to be with our attire at interviews. Knowing nothing about fashion, I asked the folks at Men's Wearhouse when I was suit shopping to help me find something conservative. They said that very traditional places and fields just want a dark, solid suit, but that pinstriped suits are more fashionable, but less acceptable to some. I know that some folks advised earlier to wear something traditional--does this just mean solid tone black or gray suit, or would a dark pinstripe still be okay?

 

[Chimed]

There was a sub-thread earlier in this post regarding how conservative to be with our attire at interviews. Knowing nothing about fashion, I asked the folks at Men's Wearhouse when I was suit shopping to help me find something conservative. They said that very traditional places and fields just want a dark, solid suit, but that pinstriped suits are more fashionable, but less acceptable to some. I know that some folks advised earlier to wear something traditional--does this just mean solid tone black or gray suit, or would a dark pinstripe still be okay?

I'm not exactly a fashion expert, but I believe a gray suit is considered the most traditional. The point is that you want to look professional and neat during an interview, after that it really doesn't matter. You really just don't want to wear something that causes the interviewer to focus on your clothing or jewlery rather then you as a person.

 

[Chimed]

There was a sub-thread earlier in this post regarding how conservative to be with our attire at interviews. Knowing nothing about fashion, I asked the folks at Men's Wearhouse when I was suit shopping to help me find something conservative. They said that very traditional places and fields just want a dark, solid suit, but that pinstriped suits are more fashionable, but less acceptable to some. I know that some folks advised earlier to wear something traditional--does this just mean solid tone black or gray suit, or would a dark pinstripe still be okay?

Is this the suit you're thinking about?

How'bout this???

 

[ioh]

I submitted my ERAS application a few days ago, ah the relief. Now that I'm thinking about interviews, there are a few questions that come to mind for those who've had the experience:

What are the most thought provoking questions you've been asked on an interview?
Should I anticipate being pimped during an interview at any specific programs?
Is there any particular etiquette for how quickly to respond to an interview offer if/when I am offered one?

Good luck to my fellow applicants with your interview season!

 

[billypilgrim37]

Is there any particular etiquette for how quickly to respond to an interview offer if/when I am offered one?

You should wait about seven seconds after getting the email. Then you're good to go.🙄

 

[ioh]

You should wait about seven seconds after getting the email. Then you're good to go.🙄

Sorry, I stated that in a way that requires clarification: I meant it as in how long to wait, in an effort to consolidate at least some of the traveling.

 

[atsai3]

Sorry, I stated that in a way that requires clarification: I meant it as in how long to wait, in an effort to consolidate at least some of the traveling.

There is no etiquette. Schedule the interview when you are ready to make travel plans. If you are holding out to consolidate interviews, then hold out for now -- at the risk of losing flexibility at some undetermined point in the future.

When I was interviewing, my approach was to schedule an interview right away with the intention of possibly trying to reschedule it later on if I found myself in a situation where consolidation could be helpful to my budget.

-AT.

 

[strangeglove]

There is no etiquette. Schedule the interview when you are ready to make travel plans. If you are holding out to consolidate interviews, then hold out for now -- at the risk of losing flexibility at some undetermined point in the future.

When I was interviewing, my approach was to schedule an interview right away with the intention of possibly trying to reschedule it later on if I found myself in a situation where consolidation could be helpful to my budget.

-AT.

It's not a bad idea to reply to the interview request and say that you definitely want (or don't want) to interview and that you will be in touch soon about an interview date. This way you can come across as eager without committing yourself to specific dates that you may later regret.

 

[Pepper Greene]

Hey gang, I'm a 4th yr at Cornell applying in psychiatry with good Step 1 scores. In order to actually have time to study, I'd like to take step2 CK in the beginning of Jan. Is that too late? If so when is the latest that I can do it?
thanks!

 

[jjbmsiv]

It's pretty late. My medical school required us to have taken both parts of step 2 by the end of December, though your school may not. Regardless, programs are going to need your step 2 ck results by February AT THE LATEST because, well, they need to decide about ranking you! If they are uncomfortable in feeling that you will pass step 3 because you haven't even taken step 2 yet, well, who's fault is that really? It can take 4-6 weeks to get your CK score back, and 8 weeks for CS, so keep that in mind.

 

[BlueSkies01]

Pretty sure that's not true. Most of my classmates are not taking step 2 until the winter (or later), because my school does not have any sort of early deadline. Our administration actually discourages people with strong step 1's from taking step 2 early, as a solid step 1 can be 'ruined' with a weak step 2. Only people with weak step 1's are encouraged to take step 2 early.