Psych career without psychopharm?

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Osminog

chemical imbalance obliterator
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What are the subspecialties/career paths within psychiatry that would allow a psychiatrist to seldom prescribe psychotropic meds, with a primary focus on non-pharmacological interventions, such as psychotherapy? (Also, no interventional modalities, e.g., ECT or TMS.)

Psychoanalysis? Sub-specialization in personality disorders? Eating disorders? Forensics?

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What are the subspecialties/career paths within psychiatry that would allow a psychiatrist to seldom prescribe psychotropic meds, with a primary focus on non-pharmacological interventions, such as psychotherapy? (Also, no interventional modalities, e.g., ECT or TMS.)

Psychoanalysis? Sub-specialization in personality disorders? Eating disorders? Forensics?
Yep, you're listing the interventions that don't involve medication. The bigger question is why?
 
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Just finish a Psychiatry residency, then open your own practice, and emphasize therapy modality XYZ.
Patients start to need medication therapy you could always refer out to another psychiatrist.
Or better yet, team up in group cash practice, emphasize the therapy, and if needed, do split management with a med focused psychiatrist.

No subspecializing necessary.

*Or do Sleep Medicine fellowship after psych, and be one who also does CBTi.
**Or do Obesity Medicine after psych, and be the one who does group therapy as part of management.
 
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Couldn’t you just advertise yourself as a psychiatrist who does psychotherapy only and not med management on somewhere like psychology today? Follow the model of what therapists do

Side question- anyone do CBTi or know a psychiatrist that actually does it? I am pursuing proficiency in it because I find it important, but haven’t met a psychiatrist who does it.
 
I know a psychiatrist who did Sleep, and does it.
I can get referrals to that person.

But the volume I refer out, I really should hone my skills... but dang, I just don't want to.
 
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If you are a psychiatrist you could do a therapy-only practice and refer out for medication questions. Be aware that as a psychiatrist you would need to identify when medications are needed and at minimum refer out (though it would be an odd thing to do). For example, failing to recommend or refer for medication for bipolar mania would very likely be deemed below the standard of care.

The better path for a therapy-only clinical practice is a psychology doctorate (PhD or PsyD). Doing the psychiatry route without prescribing will likely amount to having wasted a lot of time.

And yes, in forensic expert witness work you do not treat the person you are evaluating and thus would not prescribe. You will often be asked to offer opinions about their prescribed medication regimen or whether prescription medication would be appropriate though.
 
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Go be a psychologist if you don't want to be a doctor.

I say this as someone who does psychotherapeutic interventions in almost all my med visits. And currently happily helping a patient taper off literally all of their half dozen psychotropics one by one to see if they need any of them. And someone who frequently has appointments in which I either don't recommend meds, or I give a patient my rec and tell them it's totally OK to think about it and come back for a follow up if they want to start the medication.

But if you don't want to think about medications, then you're as good as saying you don't want to be a psychiatrist.

....and note, meds don't treat personality disorders directly, this is true. But patients with personality disorders often have other symptoms that meds can help with (ie, nightmares and hypervigilence in ptsd), and tapering them off unnecessary meds still requires prescribing during those pesky downtitrations.

Not to mention the occasional pt who is diagnosed with a personality disorder and turns out to actually have bipolar 2 or adhd which responds beautifully to meds to the point it's clear the personality disorder was a misdiagnosis.

All the psychiatrists I know pursuing analytic training still prescribe meds. Less frequently and to fewer patients than in high volume med clinics, but they do--because they are trained physicians who know better than to abandon an entire category of intervention.
 
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I have patients for whom I don't prescribe and just do psychotherapy WHEN it's appropriate and helpful. Sometimes it is, but there is a scientific evidence base for the use of psychopharmacological interventions. They work in many cases of psychiatric distress. They can help. As a psychiatrist, why WOULDN'T you want to prescribe WHEN it's a helpful option? The strength of psychiatry is that it gives you tools to evaluate and address the biological, the psychological, and the social. I will be the first to say that psychiatrists should understand and use psychotherapeutic tools, but we spend an awful lot of time learning about human physiology such that we can also address biological dysfunction and use pharmacological tools. There are psychiatric disorders which have no effective purely non-biological interventions. I have great respect for non-physician therapists, such as psychologists. Many of my supervisors and influential teachers were psychologists, but it's a different career. We go to medical school. We spend inordinate amounts of time committing the minutiae of anatomical and physiological details to memory. It seems a waste not to use it.
 
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I had a small therapy only practice for a while but I didn't like seeing other psychiatrists doing crazy things with my patients' meds and slowly came to embrace prescribing. In private practice, you can do whatever you like. If you want to have a practice that does not prescribe meds then you can do that. I will tell you that Americans have come to so wholly embrace meds even therapists recommend meds to their patients. There was once a time when psychiatrists rarely prescribed meds and many were hostile towards doing so. My former chair from residency once recalled being berated by a supervisor as a resident for prescribing an antidepressant ("what your patient needed was an interpretation, not a medication!") Now we've swung the other way with very few psychiatrists doing therapy and a whole generation (sometimes called the lost generation) of psychiatrists who trained in the 90s graduating with little to no therapy training at all.

Psychiatrists have come to be so defined by our prescription pads in the mental health arena, that we are often devalued as "prescribers". Your value is in part based on your medical training and ability to prescribe. If you want to forgo prescribing meds, expect to take a hit to your income unless you're a phenomenal therapist and marketing genius.

Of course, there is nothing stopping you focusing on another modality such as psychoanalysis, CBT, ACT, MBT, DBT, mindfulness, group therapy, couples therapy, family therapy, schema therapy, EMDR, IFS etc

I do sometimes still do split treatment where I am the therapist and another psychiatrist is the psychopharmacologist. This model could be beneficial when dealing with certain patients (e.g. personality disorders, trauma, somatization).
 
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Was thinking about a colleague who tried to go down this pathway. He started in addiction psychiatry, but after a year or so he’d had enough and decided to pursue a psychotherapy only practice which I think was due to having to deal with a lot of aggressive and drug seeking behaviour. It was fairly challenging making the change as he was now competing directly against psychologists, counsellors and other less expensive alternatives, and almost all of our psychiatry referrals come from GPs who usually want an opinion regarding diagnosis and medication and expect us to at the very least initiate treatment where indicated.

These days I believe he still does some prescribing, but it’s a relatively small proportion of his overall work.
 
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These potentially interesting questions are often so hamstrung by not understanding who the OP is or why such frankly confusing ideas came into their head. I just wish people would provide more background by default. They'll get better, more useful answers.
 
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It sounds to me like the OP has a negative opinion about the use or overreliance on medications in mental health treatment. If so, the best arena to challenge current modes of treatment is in research. Obtain data to inform the opinion and that would be of more usefulness to the field.
 
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Why train to be a carpenter who never uses a hammer?
I suppose one could also join or start their own deprescribing clinic.

There is one in the US charging patients a $295/month subscription fee started by the author of the Maudsley de-prescribing guidelines. This person hasn't even finished their own psychiatry training, yet according to the link below on their website, psychiatrists don't know the difference between withdrawal and relapse :rolleyes:

 
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I suppose one could also join or start their own deprescribing clinic.

There is one in the US charging patients a $295/month subscription fee started by the author of the Maudsley de-prescribing guidelines. This person hasn't even finished their own psychiatry training, yet according to the link below on their website, psychiatrists don't know the difference between withdrawal and relapse :rolleyes:

I'm sure the fact that they are a monthly subscription service will in no way impact the pace of tapers they recommend.
 
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What are the subspecialties/career paths within psychiatry that would allow a psychiatrist to seldom prescribe psychotropic meds, with a primary focus on non-pharmacological interventions, such as psychotherapy? (Also, no interventional modalities, e.g., ECT or TMS.)

Psychoanalysis? Sub-specialization in personality disorders? Eating disorders? Forensics?

I agree with others who are concerned about why you are so interested in this type of practice.

Forensics only in theory does not require prescribing medications. You could theoretically do only forensic evaluations, but almost nobody does this in reality. Those who do only forensic evaluations are generally late-career psychiatrists who previously did various types of clinical work for many years and do not have to worry so much about people scrutinizing their expertise.

For the rest of us, we should probably do clinical work if we want anybody to take us seriously in court. This should also involve prescribing medication because we are probably going to be forming opinions about topics that require an understanding of pharmacological treatment. You will sound really stupid talking about whether somebody with treatment-resistant schizophrenia is unrestorable if you are an analyst who hasn’t prescribed a medication in over a decade.
 
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I’ve wondered about this too but I think it would be a hard road. Prescribing adds stress and often interferes with growth and change. At the same time retaining therapy patients isn’t that easy especially at higher costs. I think maybe sleep medicine would be the best route to go. They do prescribe but not nearly as often.
 
I'm sure the fact that they are a monthly subscription service will in no way impact the pace of tapers they recommend.

Just saw this thread on Reddit today. Another supposed deprescribing guru, but charging 20-60k for a tapering plan!

 
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