Psych match

[yongjongsilver]

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Hello all,

California DO student here aspiring to become a psychiatrist but the match this year was truly terrifying and has me second guessing my choice. Seems like both DO schools in CA had at least 1/3 of their psych applicants go unmatched. I was wondering if this was the same story all around the country or just our local neck of the woods? I don't really care where I go for residency, but this is discouraging.

 

[MADD!!!]

You'll probably get better info in the Psych thread than here tbh...

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Hello all,

California DO student here aspiring to become a psychiatrist but the match this year was truly terrifying and has me second guessing my choice. Seems like both DO schools in CA had at least 1/3 of their psych applicants go unmatched. I was wondering if this was the same story all around the country or just our local neck of the woods? I don't really care where I go for residency, but this is discouraging.

Anecdotally it seems like Psych became even more competitive than it was last year. Its becoming a competitive specialty. Maybe its the SDN effect? Either way, I understand the concern, and maybe you should apply to backups, but I still think you try for what you want.

 

[Meekor]

Psych has become insanely competitive. At my GFs university ACGME program, it use to be USMD or Carib grads with a DO scattered here and there. In her class there is only one Carib grad, and this past cycle she doesn’t think they even interviewed a single Carib grad this year. The incoming class starting in July is almost 50% DOs now.

What I’m trying to say is what was formerly a low competitive field where Carib grads could easily get a spot in are being pushed out by increasing competition from DOs. There is a much bigger applicant pool than there was even 3 years ago. It’s not longer a safety specialty for people to apply to. But thats not to say it’s impossible, just have to play the game properly and work hard.

 

[deleted547631]

Everyone was right last year, Psych is the new Derm! Switch to CT surgery, stat, if you don't want to go unmatched!

 

[atomheart]

Why would the match results cause you to feel differently about something you like? Work hard and pursue it if you like it.

DO's will continue to match into Psychiatry if they work hard for it and don't feel entitled to a match in an "easy matching specialty".

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Everyone was right last year, Psych is the new Derm! Switch to CT surgery, stat, if you don't want to go unmatched!

No need. Just match Columbia in the scramble.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Why would the match results cause you to feel differently about something you like? Work hard and pursue it if you like it.

DO's will continue to match into Psychiatry if they work hard for it and don't feel entitled to a match in an "easy matching specialty".

No joke. I know a dude with mid-240s on both steps with multiple psych publications that went unmatched. DOs will continue to match, but I'd say plan for the worst.

 

[MADD!!!]

No joke. I know a dude with mid-240s on both steps with multiple psych publications that went unmatched. DOs will continue to match, but I'd say plan for the worst.

Ok but which programs did this person apply to? Region also plays a big role. Coming out of Western, I've seen the match lists in prev. years where students basically apply and try to match all over the nation. But if you go to a school that has Psych residencies nearby that are more DO-friendly, it's a different ball park. Strategy is a bigger factor than scores I think for matching Psych. I've seen multiple matches this year with low COMLEX and no USMLE getting decent to good matches.

 

[Peach Newport]

Psychiatry is not competitive. It’s just not. Anecdotes aside, it’s simply not a competitive field. The average DO school sends 4-10 people into it every year, with half of those being university ACGME university programs.

It’s simply upgraded from “send me your IMGs with multiple board failures” to “oh come on you guys.”

There have been anecdotal reports on SDN of a slight increase in competitiveness. All these reports have one thing in common - they’re all from California (they’ve been trickling in for over a year). This is a regional issue that a serious psych applicant in Cali must consider.

I speculate that this because California has relatively few psychiatry residency programs, a disproportionate number of which are affiliated with prestigious institutions, and lots of interested applicants.

An applicant with a slightly below average board score, even if it’s just COMLEX, who has great psych letters and demonstrates genuine interest and skill in the field, will have no problem matching psych... if she applies broadly.

 

[MADD!!!]

Psychiatry is not competitive. It’s just not. Anecdotes aside, it’s simply not a competitive field. The average DO school sends 4-10 people into it every year, with half of those being university ACGME university programs.

It’s simply upgraded from “send me your IMGs with multiple board failures” to “oh come on you guys.”

There have been anecdotal reports on SDN of a slight increase in competitiveness. All these reports have one thing in common - they’re all from California (they’ve been trickling in for over a year). This is a regional issue that a serious psych applicant in Cali must consider.

I speculate that this because California has relatively few psychiatry residency programs, a disproportionate number of which are affiliated with prestigious institutions, and lots of interested applicants.

An applicant with a slightly below average board score, even if it’s just COMLEX, who has great psych letters and demonstrates genuine interest and skill in the field, will have no problem matching psych... if she applies broadly.

It has gone up... look at the numbers. 1238 USMD applicants this year for Psych compared to 1067 last year. 983 or something matched this year vs. 920 something last year. About 1558 spots total. So just in this past year alone an additional 180 or so more applicants compared to last year with only about 60 more matches. And I don't think this is chalking it up due to ppl applying as Psych as a backup residency. One of our good friends here on SDN didn't do as well as he liked in the match this year, Northeast, and he had very reasonable stats, both USMLE and COMLEX, no red flags, etc. A lot of ppl got screwed this year b/c of this mindset, but it's changing and this year was the first year to really show that.

 

[Peach Newport]

It has gone up... look at the numbers. 1238 USMD applicants this year for Psych compared to 1067 last year. 983 or something matched this year vs. 920 something last year. About 1558 spots total. So just in this past year alone an additional 180 or so more applicants compared to last year with only about 60 more matches. And I don't think this is chalking it up due to ppl applying as Psych as a backup residency. One of our good friends here on SDN didn't do as well as he liked in the match this year, Northeast, and he had very reasonable stats, both USMLE and COMLEX, no red flags, etc. A lot of ppl got screwed this year b/c of this mindset, but it's changing and this year was the first year to really show that.

I don’t think match rates are a great indicator of the degree of competition. I think something like average board scores would be a better metric. Also, the number of DO students matching university programs does say something.

I would speculate that the lower match rate could simply be due to more lower-performing students applying. Psych has certainly gotten to be a more popular choice, without a doubt. For many lower-performing students, it represents an opportunity to make more money than, say, FM. The increase in demand for psychiatrists definitely feeds into that.

However, I do not believe psychiatry will ever really become anything more than “low-moderate” competitive for a few reasons.

1) Psych will always be psych. It’s not a sexy field. Lots of medical students have the mindset that they didn’t go to medical school to be called a psychiatrist. Lots of people don’t even realize psychiatrists are doctors... and you should never underestimate the fragility of the average med student’s ego.

2) More importantly, psychiatry requires a VERY particular skill set and personality. We talk a lot about how you need to have people skills in medicine, but in most fields, you can kind of get by even if you’re kind of an awkward robot. When the definition of your job is to work with the mentally ill, personality is king and it always will be. Psych is simply not a field where PDs can just just start selecting for high board scores over personality, compatibility, and dedication.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Ok but which programs did this person apply to? Region also plays a big role. Coming out of Western, I've seen the match lists in prev. years where students basically apply and try to match all over the nation. But if you go to a school that has Psych residencies nearby that are more DO-friendly, it's a different ball park. Strategy is a bigger factor than scores I think for matching Psych. I've seen multiple matches this year with low COMLEX and no USMLE getting decent to good matches.

Valid criticisms. We could also include the personality and what else the person does. If someone shows interest in psych before 3rd year, I'd imagine PDs would pick up on that and see them more favorably.

I think the point I'm trying to drive is that scores alone are not predictors of success as we'd like to think. I also think that the move into ACGME has made it so some programs are opening doors to different candidates. Losing one DO spot here, then one there, then another there eventually adds up to a lot of DO students that previously could enter psychiatry easily will find a harder time to do so. This is coupled with the fact that there are more DO and MD graduates than ever before.

By no means give up on your dream, but have a strategy and backup plan no matter how strong you believe your app is.

 

[yongjongsilver]

Thanks folks, some insightful posts. I think I will apply with a backup but continue on with my goal! And yes I agree with the person who posted about California. Its a double ended curse. On one hand all your local programs are shafting DO's in favor of OOS MD applicants from powerhouses, on the other hand out of state programs think Californians don't want to leave the state. Both seem to combine to make insane no match rates. Solution? I think I will be doing auditions out of state to show my willingness to leave.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I don’t think match rates are a great indicator of the degree of competition. I think something like average board scores would be a better metric. Also, the number of DO students matching university programs does say something.

Its important to look at both match rate and board scores to get an understanding of the big picture of what the real competition looks like. Radiology for instance has an average board score of 240, but the match rate for MDs is 98% (going off old statistics of course). In other words, the range of scores matching into the specialty is wider. Meaning that an MD could match into radiology with a 200 USMLE if he or she applies to the right programs.

However, dermatology has an average around 249 with a match rate 77% amongst MD students. This means the range of matching is smaller, and thus a person can't walk into any program interview with a 230 thinking that their chances are decent, unlike that radiology applicant applying with a 200 to community programs (yes, I know radiology is getting more competitive, for those who want to counter my post for the sake of it).

You need both to get a gauge of what your competitiveness is, because each alone doesn't tell the whole story.