Psych on fire last 3 years

[Stagg737]

Only the upper tier programs (either due to reputation, location, or both) seem to be getting more competitive. The middle tier (ex. Mayo) is still very attainable for average and below average applicants, especially in "less desirable" areas such as the Midwest.

Is Mayo really mid-tier though? I realize it's not elite like MGH or Yale psych and the location isn't the most desirable, but I thought it was still considered an "upper tier" program.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[clausewitz2]

See what I have been saying! People have accused me of being out touch. I made my decision to abandon psych because I could see things will get even more and more competitive every year.

You are not a DO. Their situation is not your situation. You know this. And have been told. Repeatedly.

 

[SmallBird]

Is Mayo really mid-tier though? I realize it's not elite like MGH or Yale psych and the location isn't the most desirable, but I thought it was still considered an "upper tier" program.

Luckily, there aren't actually "tiers". You could try place it according to a number of dimensions and decide which matter to you. For NIH funding, its definitely not upper tier. In terms of the reputation of their clinical services, its rated highly by US World News, and patients still think highly of the mayo brand. In terms of its capacity to attract the most competitive applicants, its not upper tier. In terms of its clinical training, which is probably what matters to most people, its really hard to say!

 

[Stagg737]

Luckily, there aren't actually "tiers". You could try place it according to a number of dimensions and decide which matter to you. For NIH funding, its definitely not upper tier. In terms of the reputation of their clinical services, its rated highly by US World News, and patients still think highly of the mayo brand. In terms of its capacity to attract the most competitive applicants, its not upper tier. In terms of its clinical training, which is probably what matters to most people, its really hard to say!

Thank you, this is what I was wondering about. I'm mostly interested in the actual clinical training and how reasonable it is to try and apply there (would be a reach for me), NIH funding isn't a major priority to me, and while prestige isn't a big factor for me I'd prefer my patients not question my credentials or where I trained (which wouldn't be an issue with Mayo).

 

[OldPsychDoc]

its not really known for psychiatry. it's probably not one of their stronger departments. it is not popular choice for applicants because of the terrible location. they get some questionable people going there. i imagine they get lots of interesting patients on the c/l service. locally, university of minnesota probably has a stronger rep for psychiatry, particularly as they do a lot of schizophrenia research, though the dept there has been embroiled in controversies surrounding gross ethical violations.

New Chair now, though...so fingers crossed...

 

[Stagg737]

its not really known for psychiatry. it's probably not one of their stronger departments. it is not popular choice for applicants because of the terrible location. they get some questionable people going there. i imagine they get lots of interesting patients on the c/l service. locally, university of minnesota probably has a stronger rep for psychiatry, particularly as they do a lot of schizophrenia research, though the dept there has been embroiled in controversies surrounding gross ethical violations.

Interesting, I didn't realize that. Wasn't that whole thing a few years ago though or are they still investigating it? Sorry to derail the thread, but my school has a decent relationship with both schools, so this piqued my interest.

 

[Merovinge]

Interesting, I didn't realize that. Wasn't that whole thing a few years ago though or are they still investigating it? Sorry to derail the thread, but my school has a decent relationship with both schools, so this piqued my interest.

It's fair, if you are from the Midwest growing up Mayo is like Harvard or UCSF. Then you get into the world of psychiatry and realize Mayo has a relatively limited psychiatry exposure in their training and struggle to get the applicants they would in other fields. Programs like Michigan and UPMC are clearly much better for psychiatry but places that in other areas of medicine would never be considered better than Mayo are probably better bets for most applicants (UofM, Iowa, Wisconsin, UIC, Indiana, Wash U etc in absolutely no order).

 

[Seroquel]

Mayo definitely has the name recognition but I really don't think it applies to the psychiatry dept. Not saying that it isn't a solid program because it is, but for me personally there were a lot of things lacking, i.e, low patient volume, similar demographic of patients, etc. U of Minnesota just got a new chair but it will probably take a few years to obtain more faculty and researchers. The new chair is great, I met her and was impressed with her plans for the program.

 

[HarryMTieboutMD]

Aside from a few key faculty (Mark Frye, Keith Rasmussen) no one in academic psychiatry takes Mayo seriously, and within Mayo neurology and medicine are far more important (meaning, the institution itself doesnt value psych). And Rochester is a horrible place (I mistakenly interviewed there and wanted to leave as soon as I got there). If you consider Pitt as a midwestern program then it is probably the best. Otherwise Michigan and Wash U are the most established with Cincinnati and Iowa behind them. Northwestern attracts some of the best applicants (aside from Pitt) and has some marquee faculty (John Czernansky, Kathy Wisner, Dan Angres) because of location and name but in terms of academic power within the field the others are probably better.

 

[st2205]

Rule #1 of SDN: mention Mayo and people will come out of the woodwork to explain how their program does not match their name brand and mustn't be considered amongst the elites.

Rule #2 of SDN: mention Harvard Southshore and people will come out of the woodwork to explain how it isn't really a Harvard program but a place the DOs and IMGs like because of the name.

Rule #3 of SDN (this one is actually a bit dated): mention San Mateo and people will speak glowingly of its clinical training as if its location and no call aren't the real reasons it is beloved. Move this program to Kentucky and hear about how its lax schedule leaves its graduates ill prepared for the realities of psychiatric care.

 

[psychEpath]

Rule #2 of SDN: mention Harvard Southshore and people will come out of the woodwork to explain how it isn't really a Harvard program but a place the DOs and IMGs like because of the name.

I think this program is definitely on the rise. I thought I'd be coming here because of all the post-interview communication/love I received from them, but it turned out to be lies. I ended up at a fantastic program close to home, but I really think this program would've be an awesome experience for me.

 

[Dharma]

I think this program is definitely on the rise. I thought I'd be coming here because of all the post-interview communication/love I received from them, but it turned out to be lies. I ended up at a fantastic program close to home, but I really think this program would've be an awesome experience for me.

Not lies, but the game well-played. I see the process of interviewing and entering the Match similar to college athletic recruitment. During senior year of high school, the programs act as if you are THE one they need, practically drooling over you. They send cards, place phone calls, have you come to their games, maybe even bend recruiting violations. In reality, that athlete is one of many they have extended the same "love" to. Show up first day of practice and there are 3 other guys, with very similar qualities, all gunning for the same spot... all who were told they were THE guy during recruitment. That "love" from a few months earlier... gone. Coaches' affect, flat at best... more likely irritable and agitated. (Has oneself asking, "Who is THIS guy?") It was all a show... to get what they needed- A winning lineup.

I found the whole Match thing a lot friendlier than the recruitment gig. Definitely better post-Match.

 

[PistolPete]

Not lies, but the game well-played. I see the process of interviewing and entering the Match similar to college athletic recruitment. During senior year of high school, the programs act as if you are THE one they need, practically drooling over you. They send cards, place phone calls, have you come to their games, maybe even bend recruiting violations. In reality, that athlete is one of many they have extended the same "love" to. Show up first day of practice and there are 3 other guys, with very similar qualities, all gunning for the same spot... all who were told they were THE guy during recruitment. That "love" from a few months earlier... gone. Coaches' affect, flat at best... more likely irritable and agitated. (Has oneself asking, "Who is THIS guy?") It was all a show... to get what they needed- A winning lineup.

I found the whole Match thing a lot friendlier than the recruitment gig. Definitely better post-Match.

That's a pretty good analogy!

 

[drsolo]

Rule #2 of SDN: mention Harvard Southshore and people will come out of the woodwork to explain how it isn't really a Harvard program but a place the DOs and IMGs like because of the name.

I think this program is definitely on the rise. I thought I'd be coming here because of all the post-interview communication/love I received from them, but it turned out to be lies. I ended up at a fantastic program close to home, but I really think this program would've be an awesome experience for me.

Yeah, I'd tend to agree with psychEpath. Maybe that reputation is just a thing of the past. I was very impressed during my interview day. Seems like a strong program with tons of opportunity. Not to mention, all the residents were personable and seemed genuinely happy.