Psych Residency Programs

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
R

Reduviid

New Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2012
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Long time lurker here - 4th yr student. I'm a competitive applicant for a competitive field that I've been interested in since starting school. I liked my rotations in this field but psych is the only thing I've done since starting med school where I was actually excited to wake up most mornings on the rotation. I've tried to ignore it but I think I'm finally going to do a psych elective and apply to a handful of psych programs(in addition to the other field)... not because I don't think I can match in the other field but because I genuinely think I might be happier in life as a psychiatrist.

I've been perusing this forum for a while now and think I have a feel for what programs people believe have the highest quality training/prestige, but I'm interested in psych as an alternative to a life of constant rigor/academics/research. I would rather work 40-50 hrs a week, spend time with my family, enjoy my job and make a little less money.

My question: what residency programs should I look into/apply to? Lifestyle (hours/moonlighting/positive environment) > training quality ~ prestige >> location. Are there tangible differences for these factors among programs or are most programs in general considered equally laid back, benign, reputable, etc.?

Thanks for the help.
Members don't see this ad.
 
Reduviid said:
Long time lurker here - 4th yr student. I'm a competitive applicant for a competitive field that I've been interested in since starting school. I liked my rotations in this field but psych is the only thing I've done since starting med school where I was actually excited to wake up most mornings on the rotation. I've tried to ignore it but I think I'm finally going to do a psych elective and apply to a handful of psych programs(in addition to the other field)... not because I don't think I can match in the other field but because I genuinely think I might be happier in life as a psychiatrist.

I've been perusing this forum for a while now and think I have a feel for what programs people believe have the highest quality training/prestige, but I'm interested in psych as an alternative to a life of constant rigor/academics/research. I would rather work 40-50 hrs a week, spend time with my family, enjoy my job and make a little less money.

My question: what residency programs should I look into/apply to? Lifestyle (hours/moonlighting/positive environment) > training quality ~ prestige >> location. Are there tangible differences for these factors among programs or are most programs in general considered equally laid back, benign, reputable, etc.?

Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

I'll give this a shot. I am by no means an expert though, so bear with me...I didn't apply to any of the Ivy-type places, mostly because I had zero desire to live in any of those locations, so my experience is limited, but I'll try and help:

As a general rule, the programs which are more prestigious *tend* to work harder/more. There are some exceptions to this, I'm sure, but on average, you're going to work harder at the bigger name places. Partly because they don't have to sell you on lifestyle to attract awesome applicants.

Among the "Big Name" places...I've heard the best things about Brown, in terms of "best all around" from reviews here and on scutwork. If you're stuck on an Ivy.

I, however, am of the opinion that prestige is a REGIONAL phenomenon. For example, in Virginia, a degree from, say, UVa would make you MUCH more marketable (to the public, at least) than a degree from Brown, which most people there have never heard of, unless they themselves went to an Ivy school, or have family who did, which is unlikely.

First, I'd decide at least what part of the country you want to be in. From there, you'll have to make some decisions. Let's pretend that you want to live in the Southeast (since that's where I'm most familiar with).

The biggest "name" programs in the Southeast would probably be, in no particular order: MUSC, Duke, UNC, UVA, Emory, UF, and Vanderbilt. None of those are particularly well known for their lifestyle. In the same region, the lifestyle KING is USC-Palmetto, which is ~40 hours/week during ALL of residency, including intern year (even off service months!), and very minimal night call...basically never. Mind you, USC-Palmetto is also well-respected and known for provided quality training, but it's not the Big Name place these other places are. So, you make compromises. You say, well, I'll settle for not abusive, but still a name. Then you do MUSC, UVA, and maybe UNC. Or, you decide you can stomach 3-4 years of "abuse" and go for Duke or Emory (or Vandy, depending on who you believe).

Keep in mind, this is all relative. The toughest psych programs are still, by and large, following the work hour rules, and aren't really that bad.

So, before we can really offer more advice, we need at least the following information:

1. What area of the country would you prefer?

2. Any particular interest in a certain field of psychiatry? Child? C-L? Forensics? Research? Anything?

Hope that helps, at least a little bit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
digitlnoize said:
For example, in Virginia, a degree from, say, UVa would make you MUCH more marketable (to the public, at least) than a degree from Brown, which most people there have never heard of, unless they themselves went to an Ivy school, or have family who did, which is unlikely.
Click to expand...

My experience with members of the public is that they have no idea how medical training works at all, let alone do they care where a doctor did their residency.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Reduviid said:
Long time lurker here - 4th yr student. I'm a competitive applicant for a competitive field that I've been interested in since starting school. I liked my rotations in this field but psych is the only thing I've done since starting med school where I was actually excited to wake up most mornings on the rotation. I've tried to ignore it but I think I'm finally going to do a psych elective and apply to a handful of psych programs(in addition to the other field)... not because I don't think I can match in the other field but because I genuinely think I might be happier in life as a psychiatrist.

I've been perusing this forum for a while now and think I have a feel for what programs people believe have the highest quality training/prestige, but I'm interested in psych as an alternative to a life of constant rigor/academics/research. I would rather work 40-50 hrs a week, spend time with my family, enjoy my job and make a little less money.

My question: what residency programs should I look into/apply to? Lifestyle (hours/moonlighting/positive environment) > training quality ~ prestige >> location. Are there tangible differences for these factors among programs or are most programs in general considered equally laid back, benign, reputable, etc.?

Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

there are tangible differences for these factors among programs

best lifestyle while still having good training that I know of is brown or san mateo
 
I know nothing about Brown's residency program. But I did my undergrad there and think RI is a really cool place to live. Kinda sad from time to time that I haven't ended up back there.
 
Very helpful, thanks! Your response was exactly what I'm looking for. As far as your questions:

1. Virtually no preference in location. I've been in my state for a long time and think it'd be fun to try something new for residency, but don't really care where. East coast would be a blast. Would be fun to get into the NE for a while. But equally interested in TX programs and Michigan.. I guess this is all part of the question - who are the USC-Palmettos around the country?

2. I haven't had enough experience to know which areas I'm most interested in, but maybe forensics or child.. probably not C-L or research.

Thanks again for everyone's responses. I was worried I was going to get thrashed for not "using the search" button (I did but felt like I couldn't fully answer my question).
 
As far as lifestyle during residency, the duty hours rules over the past 3-5 years have, I think, leveled the playing field a lot. I'd be surprised if there are many good malignant programs left. A lot of programs that used to "front load" call in G1 & G2 now have more call (though not heinous call) in the senior years--but I find our seniors, by virtue of being more experienced and confident, don't find it as painful as they once did.
 
Reduviid said:
who are the USC-Palmettos around the country?
Click to expand...

Other reportedly USC-like places:

- Medical College of Wisconsin
- U Arkansas

Some of this is splitting hairs. Almost all psych programs fall into the "~50-60 hours a week during 1st year, except when off service" category. I haven't felt abused at my program yet, and have been consistently running in the low-50's since I started...and hit 70 during one week when I had a few nights in a row.

I would only truly avoid a few places known for pushing 80 hours constantly throughout intern year (*cough* Hopkins *cough*).
 
Reduviid said:
Long time lurker here - 4th yr student. I'm a competitive applicant for a competitive field that I've been interested in since starting school. I liked my rotations in this field but psych is the only thing I've done since starting med school where I was actually excited to wake up most mornings on the rotation. I've tried to ignore it but I think I'm finally going to do a psych elective and apply to a handful of psych programs(in addition to the other field)... not because I don't think I can match in the other field but because I genuinely think I might be happier in life as a psychiatrist.

I've been perusing this forum for a while now and think I have a feel for what programs people believe have the highest quality training/prestige, but I'm interested in psych as an alternative to a life of constant rigor/academics/research. I would rather work 40-50 hrs a week, spend time with my family, enjoy my job and make a little less money.

My question: what residency programs should I look into/apply to? Lifestyle (hours/moonlighting/positive environment) > training quality ~ prestige >> location. Are there tangible differences for these factors among programs or are most programs in general considered equally laid back, benign, reputable, etc.?

Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

In the Northeast, I think Albert Einstein - Montefiore has the best lifestyle. The department is apparently doing well financially, and the chair has been actively spending money to improve attending coverage to limit the amount of call housestaff take. In the west, there are rumors that San Mateo residents don't even take call, but I believe they only take 3-4 residents a year, so its actually one of the more competitive programs.

More broadly speaking, I was strongly ambivalent about lifestyle when I interviewed. On the one hand, call can be incredibly educational if done right; you see a ton of diversity, get exposure to new patients in different settings. On the other hand, even the most interesting case kinda loses its flavor at 3am Sunday morning, and the best evening in the ER can't match-up to even the worst one with your loved ones.

That being said, I realize you're only applying to a couple of places, but when you do look, try to keep an eye out for the quality of the call versus the absolute quantity. That'll probably be true for that other mystery specialty.
 
Anyone familiar enough with Midwestern programs to comment on this topic? I'm talking Minnesota/Wisconsin/Iowa/Illinois/Ohio/Michigan mostly.
 
for the question on texas programs...
Baylor-found them to be a good program but they tend to work you harder than avg (and freely admit that). they are more into psychotherapy than many programs and have the menninger clinic attached which is a unique experience. because of location, they have less social worker help so you end up doing a bit more of that. horrid traffic. i also felt that not speaking spanish would really hinder me there.

UTSW i really liked. i clicked with the program director and they seemed pretty balanced. good facilities, good research, good hours. seemed like good trajectory to what they were doing.

in the midwest...
iowa- great program in the medical model. great facilities, great lifestyle (50hrs a week throughout), down-to-earth residents. all call is for psych. would be a great training program but the location turns some people off im sure. if you dont like the college town, you have a 5 hour drive to civilization.

U of WI- very outpatient oriented. college town with limited diversity and more upper middle class pull. i personally dont like madison, but would be a great place to raise a family for most. the assistant PD is really cool. a lot of madison "lifers" who stayed for undergrad, med school, residency, faculty. not urban enough for some.

MCW- psychotherapy/ outpatient oriented (second year is outpatient). great facilities and mix between indigent mke and suburban insured patients. reputation for being pretty cush, and because its in mke they tend to take more IMGs. milwaukees an underrated city really.

U of MN- almost everyone there did U of MN for undergrad, med school, and residency, almost to the point of being weird. PD said if you dont have a connection to MN they wont even interview you (i heard he got burned by a Florida resident who transferred out years ago). good VA exposure, but other main site is fairview riverside and the psych unit there was small. it kinda felt like the residency was a tenant and could get booted at any time. because HCMC treats a lot of the indigent city folk, i felt youd get short changed a bit there if thats your population of interest. theres a psych ER but residents dont rotate through it! the PD was stepping down due to family reasons and i didnt quite click with the new PD. very good moonlighting at the VA and pretty cush hours overall. great city to live in.

Mayo- beautiful facilities. awesome faculty. solid research. medical model. the ONLY downside i found (but it was a big one) is that the patients are white, middle class. everyone in the city either works at mayo, ibm, or hormel foods. they say they see lots of psychotic patients, but its not the same as being in a city. the only real international pull they could site for psych is an occasional eating disorder from the middle east. living in rochester might turn some off, but i thought it was nice in a small town way. if i was going into anything other than psych i probably would have gone there, due to patient population.

i didnt look in the other states you mentioned so i cant help you there!


SteinUmStein said:
Anyone familiar enough with Midwestern programs to comment on this topic? I'm talking Minnesota/Wisconsin/Iowa/Illinois/Ohio/Michigan mostly.
Click to expand...
 
SteinUmStein said:
Anyone familiar enough with Midwestern programs to comment on this topic? I'm talking Minnesota/Wisconsin/Iowa/Illinois/Ohio/Michigan mostly.
Click to expand...

Here's a list I PM'd to someone concerned about their chances as a USIMG a few weeks ago:

Top programs that give USFMGs and IMGs a fair look include Wash U (St Louis) and Michigan. Northwestern, Cincinnati, and Pittsburgh are probably reaches for you--but you never know.

High-mid university programs where you could have a shot include Iowa, Indiana, Medical College of Wisconsin, Ohio State, and Kansas. U Wisc and U Minn tend to fill internally a lot. There's a great community program at Hennepin County/Regions in Minnesota (much broader scope than just a "county program", BTW). Mayo also can be surprisingly non-competitive, poss d/t the small-town feel of Rochester. Speaking of Rochesters--Rochester (NY) isn't bad.

Other decent mid-range progs would be Louisville, St Louis U, and Penn State- Hershey, Michigan State, Wayne State and Henry Ford (Detroit). Case Western can be hit or miss, depending on the year.

Low-mid programs that are worth a look are Creighton, Missouri-KC, even U of S. Dakota and N. Dakota, though the Dakotas tend to also take folks with stronger local connections.

Have heard bad things about U Chicago and Rosalind Franklin in Chicago--but it's mostly hearsay.
Click to expand...
 
Members don't see this ad :)
U of Cincinnati is a solid program with research and clinical diversity. Several of the researchers in this program are top 100 physicians in the country and have a reputation for also being solid teachers such as Paul Keck, Henry Nasrallah, Douglas Mossman, Mike Keys, among several others.

It has several fellowships (addiction, child, forensic, geriatric, triple-board, FP-psychiatry), spreads residents across a curriculum that can include PES, involuntary inpatient, geriatric inpatient, forensic inpatient, long-term inpatient, outpatient, consult, ECT, VA, among several others. The department has merged with the Lindner Center further opening up possible exposure to TMS, outpatient DBT, eating disorder treatment, and exposure to a private facility.

I was at a faculty meeting and several people have a genuine concern for teaching including some of the top people there. Nasrallah, for example, has gone out of his way on several fronts to encourage better teaching and ignite discussion on inspiring medstudents to go into psychiatry. The university has a knack for asking only top residents that had a passion for the field and teaching juniors to stay as faculty.

The program is IMG and DO friendly. We have a few IMGs and DOs here.

What I can't tell you is the more phenomenological aspects of the program since I didn't attend it's general residency program. E.g. is the call schedule comfortable? I can tell you the that food selection is pretty good, Cincinnati is decent in terms of having a life (low cost of living, there's a college campus right around you with lots of single young people, a thriving art and music scene, etc.)

The only disadvantage I can think of that I think a resident may experience that I experience as an attending is the institution is so damn big. E.g. I got at least 7 usernames and passwords and those passwords need to be changed every few weeks. (I wouldn't be surprised if I even had more. I just called IT today not being able to log into something I needed to log onto and didn't even know about it until today). I get an e-mail once in awhile saying something to the effect that I didn't do XYZ and if I don't go to building 123 I'm going to have to do a procedure 789 or I'm going to have rule ING enforced and I'll be screwed, and I don't know what the heck this means.

But there's advantages in it being so big. You can use the olympic size pool in the gym, go to a college football game with a decent sized stadium, go to one of the many excellent restaurants in the college area...
 
Last edited:
What are the prestigious positions like: were talking the creme dala creme? MGH, Duke, Columbia. Also, are there any psych programs that have extreme hours, lots of on calls and physician burnout like most other residencies.
 
whopper said:
U of Cincinnati is a solid program with research and clinical diversity. Several of the researchers in this program are top 100 physicians in the country and have a reputation for also being solid teachers such as Paul Keck, Henry Nasrallah, Douglas Mossman, Mike Keys, among several others.

It has several fellowships (addiction, child, forensic, geriatric, triple-board, FP-psychiatry), spreads residents across a curriculum that can include PES, involuntary inpatient, geriatric inpatient, forensic inpatient, long-term inpatient, outpatient, consult, ECT, VA, among several others. The department has merged with the Lindner Center further opening up possible exposure to TMS, outpatient DBT, eating disorder treatment, and exposure to a private facility.

I was at a faculty meeting and several people have a genuine concern for teaching including some of the top people there. Nasrallah, for example, has gone out of his way on several fronts to encourage better teaching and ignite discussion on inspiring medstudents to go into psychiatry. The university has a knack for asking only top residents that had a passion for the field and teaching juniors to stay as faculty.

The program is IMG and DO friendly. We have a few IMGs and DOs here.

What I can't tell you is the more phenomenological aspects of the program since I didn't attend it's general residency program. E.g. is the call schedule comfortable? I can tell you the that food selection is pretty good, Cincinnati is decent in terms of having a life (low cost of living, there's a college campus right around you with lots of single young people, a thriving art and music scene, etc.)

The only disadvantage I can think of that I think a resident may experience that I experience as an attending is the institution is so damn big. E.g. I got at least 7 usernames and passwords and those passwords need to be changed every few weeks. (I wouldn't be surprised if I even had more. I just called IT today not being able to log into something I needed to log onto and didn't even know about it until today). I get an e-mail once in awhile saying something to the effect that I didn't do XYZ and if I don't go to building 123 I'm going to have to do a procedure 789 or I'm going to have rule ING enforced and I'll be screwed, and I don't know what the heck this means.

But there's advantages in it being so big. You can use the olympic size pool in the gym, go to a college football game with a decent sized stadium, go to one of the many excellent restaurants in the college area...
Click to expand...

Whopper, you might become a program director yourself. Maybe become the Head of the Derpartment? You look like you could be the next Nathan Kline. I could see it now: The Whopper Institute.
 
DOC PENGUIN said:
What are the prestigious positions like: were talking the creme dala creme? MGH, Duke, Columbia. Also, are there any psych programs that have extreme hours, lots of on calls and physician burnout like most other residencies.
Click to expand...

I don't think Duke fits in on that list. They also have the reputation of being sort of malignant.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile
 
Agreed, that I would not put Duke on that list. At least, not four years ago when I graduated from med school. It was harder to get into Emory back then. I went for lifestyle plus solid fellowship in one location, and Duke was not on my radar. But a classmate of mine went to Duke, and he was trying to go somewhere else (southeast). No one in the SE was dying to get into Duke back when I matched. Who knows now? Programs can change very, very quickly. Much of this is subjective. I agree with OPD that the change in resident work hours has really caused a lot of change in psych residencies across the board.
 
OldPsychDoc said:
As far as lifestyle during residency, the duty hours rules over the past 3-5 years have, I think, leveled the playing field a lot. I'd be surprised if there are many good malignant programs left. A lot of programs that used to "front load" call in G1 & G2 now have more call (though not heinous call) in the senior years--but I find our seniors, by virtue of being more experienced and confident, don't find it as painful as they once did.
Click to expand...

call is still(and will continue to be) pretty rare as a 4th year(and a 3rd year many places) at good programs.....
 
I don't see myself becoming a dept head, especially where I'm at.

If U of Cincinnati were the Justice League, I sure am not Superman, Batman, or Green Lantern. I just can't think of myself in that manner when there's people here who have literally advanced the state of the art and then happen to be incredibly good teachers and approachable people, a characteristic I've often found to almost be mutually exclusive based on several I've seen in medicine.

07-07-01-326a.jpg


Well scratch that a little bit. Nasrallah is one of the most courteous and welcoming people I've met in this field. At a faculty meeting (my first), he insisted I stand up while people clapped and welcomed me in. The guy still intimidates me. I was talking about it with another faculty member. It's nothing he does, other than that he's so damned good. The other faculty member told me that his PGY IV year, Nasrallah did his oral exam and he was intimidated to the extreme, again it was nothing Nasrallah did that was wrong. The guy is just so professional you want to do 110% in front of him all the time. Same goes with Keck, and Mossman. As for Keys, he and I were doing some work together, everything's going fine for several days, then I see him on the top 100 physicians list in the nation, and I'm running a unit he used to run and all of a sudden I'm thinking- okay, what am I doing wrong? Can't mess up here-feeling intimidated....

Consider me Blue Beetle. Newbie, feeling intimidated because I'm new in this place, and seeing people so accomplished in my presence. I guess it's not totally inappropriate given that the Justice League Headquarters is in Cincinnati, well kinda. The Cincinnati Union Terminal, now a museum, is the building the Justice League Headquarters is based on. On Halloween, there's a party there and a requirement is you dress up as a superhero.
 
Last edited:
BS81 said:
I don't think Duke fits in on that list. They also have the reputation of being sort of malignant.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile
Click to expand...

Not malignant. Grace Thrall is one of the best PDs in the business. But the (PGY2, I believe) rotation at John Umstead is pretty hectic, and morale is low among residents when they rotate through there. But even though John Umstead is difficult, I don't know that it would necessarily qualify for the "malignant" moniker. There's a difference between having to do lots of hard work vs. a truly malignant environment where there is no team spirit, the program director is abusive towards residents, and residents get fired without just cause.
 
Agreed re: Duke. It's a solid top-20 program that struggles to recruit outside the region (just like UNC) based mainly on location (though the triangle is really a lovely place to live). I think there are some valid complaints about the place, but it's by no means malignant.
 
Duke was a DNR (did not rank) for me. Has some great features (academic powerhouse, nice PD, good family therapy training, prestige factor) but the residents didn't seem to know WTF they were doing, they were working far too much on psych (i.e. >70 hours/week without call - at Duke not John Umstead), things got worse in PGY2, people expressed their unhappiness and was told by one resident they were trying to leave. I do not buy the location being the main reason they have trouble recruiting as UNC does not seem to be as concerned about recruiting (though they have lots of their own).
 
whopper said:
I don't see myself becoming a dept head, especially where I'm at.

If U of Cincinnati were the Justice League, I sure am not Superman, Batman, or Green Lantern. I just can't think of myself in that manner when there's people here who have literally advanced the state of the art and then happen to be incredibly good teachers and approachable people, a characteristic I've often found to almost be mutually exclusive based on several I've seen in medicine.

07-07-01-326a.jpg


Well scratch that a little bit. Nasrallah is one of the most courteous and welcoming people I've met in this field. At a faculty meeting (my first), he insisted I stand up while people clapped and welcomed me in. The guy still intimidates me. I was talking about it with another faculty member. It's nothing he does, other than that he's so damned good. The other faculty member told me that his PGY IV year, Nasrallah did his oral exam and he was intimidated to the extreme, again it was nothing Nasrallah did that was wrong. The guy is just so professional you want to do 110% in front of him all the time. Same goes with Keck, and Mossman. As for Keys, he and I were doing some work together, everything's going fine for several days, then I see him on the top 100 physicians list in the nation, and I'm running a unit he used to run and all of a sudden I'm thinking- okay, what am I doing wrong? Can't mess up here-feeling intimidated....

Consider me Blue Beetle. Newbie, feeling intimidated because I'm new in this place, and seeing people so accomplished in my presence. I guess it's not totally inappropriate given that the Justice League Headquarters is in Cincinnati, well kinda. The Cincinnati Union Terminal, now a museum, is the building the Justice League Headquarters is based on. On Halloween, there's a party there and a requirement is you dress up as a superhero.
Click to expand...

WOW! That was self-deprecating, but you are an Asian libertarianish psychiatrist so your a rarity, i would like to know your history i will PM you. By the way will anybody answer my question: Are there programs in psych that make you work 100 hour weeks, and burn you to death?
 
If lifestyle is important, I'd look for a program that is all outpatient during PGY3, and then compare PGY2 schedules between them.

Based on your lifestyle > quality ~ prestige criteria, I'd put Harvard - Cambridge Health Alliance very high on your list.
 
MDchouette said:
If lifestyle is important, I'd look for a program that is all outpatient during PGY3, and then compare PGY2 schedules between them.

Based on your lifestyle > quality ~ prestige criteria, I'd put Harvard - Cambridge Health Alliance very high on your list.
Click to expand...

Isn't pretty much every program all outpatient in PGY3?
 
I knew of a program that made you work > 100 hours a week, but that was about 5-6 years ago and quite frankly I'm not in the mood to start some flame war by naming it and then having someone from that program call me a liar, add to my hesitation that it's been some time and things change.

But I will say this, the program was racist, simply doing an interview there will make you speculate there is some type of race issue going on there, it's full of nepotism where race played a part, and residents were constantly overworked. The program was also in NJ-and that narrows down the list to the degree where simply based on the interview you might be able to figure it out from the bones I threw here.

The program may have fixed itself up in the last few years. I hope it did.
 
BS81 said:
Isn't pretty much every program all outpatient in PGY3?
Click to expand...
No. Mine isn't. Makes for a harder third year, although I am still very happy here.

I'd also look at UPenn.
 
DOC PENGUIN said:
What makes a top 10 program a top 10 program?
Click to expand...

Look, once you start residency you won't care about rankings. Pick a location, go to the interviews, come up with your favorites, and rank them. That's it. Rankings are pertinent for other medical fields, not for psychiatry. Not true entirely, but you get my point.

Big names... I'm all for them. They help you get good jobs. To put Cornell, Harvard, UCLA, etc on the resume helps. But as for top 10, nobody agrees on what they are in the academic or hiring side of psych.
 
The only ranking list I've seen was only based on research $$$. That is a poor method to rate programs. Some programs are research powerhouses but are lacking in clinical exposure and/or teaching. IMHO while research is important, if it were put on a scale vs. clinical exposure and teaching, it'd be 3rd with those other factors being one and two.

Even just for research it's a poor method. Some programs will have more research money because there's simply more researchers there but the quality, cost, and significance of that research is not factored into this list. I know of a researcher, for example, that made some significant breakthroughs by using some intense statistical models and number crunching, and since the guy is a genius, he was able to do it mostly with just using a computer program and plugging in numbers without having to spend a lot of money gathering the data.

Compare that to a guy using a PET scan and rate it on the money alone and the PET scan guy will always win even if his research blows.

A lot of the ranking I've seen discussed on this forum had swayed between a spectrum of rating the program based on several factors that actually are relevant IMHO/damn the brandname to the brandname programs. That said, several programs with a name are good programs, just that the name may be weighed a bit too heavily vs. the factors that really matter.
 
The top 10 are about 15-25 programs that otherwise reasonable people who spend way too much time on SDN might generate ;)

MGH, Columbia, Cornell, UCSF, and UCLA are sort of the locks, and then there are about 15-20 programs that could challenge to round out the other 5. It varies a little bit too by geography what people would generally rank.

I don't think anybody really takes the USNWR rankings seriously when thinking about the residency programs. Maryland and Hopkins do very well on that, but most people wouldn't put them nearly as high in terms of desirability for residency (though they are good programs).
 
Part of the Reason why we have medical school rankings are because of NIH funding. The biggest guys that get funding are Harvard and Johns Hopkins
 
Here's a little perspective. Lindner Center. I'd consider it one of the best places for someone mentally ill in the country. For example It's an institution where every doctor there is one degree away from if not one of the top psychiatrists in the country. Paul Keck could literally have been the doctor on call one night in admitting a patient. Several patients have been brought to that institution from other parts of the country, even other countries due to it's reputation.

Lindner is not in the top list.

And one place that I will not name is where patients used to get raped. Occurred decades ago, but the place doesn't hold a candle to Lindner.

I think that's pretty conclusive in saying the list is BS.
 
Last edited:
Thanks everyone for all the thoughtful responses, they have been extremely helpful!
 
OldPsychDoc said:
Here's a list I PM'd to someone concerned about their chances as a USIMG a few weeks ago:
Click to expand...

Do you mind sharing some of the things you heard about the Chicago programs? I'm looking into the Chicago area, but I really don't know anything about the reputation of the programs. If you don't want to mention it on here, you could just send me a private message
 
Northwestern is the place to go. Univ of Chicago is to be avoided according to recent interviewees who got strange vibes there.
 
Illinoisgrad said:
Do you mind sharing some of the things you heard about the Chicago programs? I'm looking into the Chicago area, but I really don't know anything about the reputation of the programs. If you don't want to mention it on here, you could just send me a private message
Click to expand...

If you check the interview thread from last year there are a number of reviews (hard for me to link now...I'm on my phone)
 
Is it time to start a thread about residency programs for the 2012-2013 season? This thread started off focused only on Southeast programs and then fizzled out.
 
On Walden Pond said:
Is it time to start a thread about residency programs for the 2012-2013 season? This thread started off focused only on Southeast programs and then fizzled out.
Click to expand...

I'd probably find that useful.
 
Apply to Cambridge. By far the most relaxed and well-paid residents in the 4 Harvard Programs. Very friendly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

W
How psych applicants evaluate residency programs
Replies
2
Views
79
Merovinge
Merovinge
P
What Are My Chances at Psych Residency?
Replies
7
Views
759
Stagg737
Stagg737
C
Which Boston Psych residencies requier medicine Sub-I's?
Replies
2
Views
204
Psychiater
P
milan95
Are there any child psych programs that do therapy training using ear pieces with live guidance?
Replies
11
Views
438
Atreides
Atreides
B
Serious Psych Programs to Steer From [2023]
Replies
19
Views
3K
milan95
milan95
Top