Psychedlics

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Ray D. Ayshun

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I'm very much a believer in this approach when it comes to a number of things, but specifically, I believe psychedlics can serve a significant role in helping terminal cancer patients. Anyone have any experience in getting patients to places that do this? Based on my understanding of things, I'd certainly prefer psilocybin or lsd treatment, but my impression is that similar results can be achieved with mdma or ketamine infusions, which are used in certain situations off trial/legal.

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I'm very much a believer in this approach when it comes to a number of things, but specifically, I believe psychedlics can serve a significant role in helping terminal cancer patients. Anyone have any experience in getting patients to places that do this? Based on my understanding of things, I'd certainly prefer psilocybin or lsd treatment, but my impression is that similar results can be achieved with mdma or ketamine infusions, which are used in certain situations off trial/legal.
Several months ago, I was working with the Palliative Care docs on a patient with incredibly challenging pain control issues. Ultimately we were able to get the patient on ketamine infusions.

Fortunately for me, PallCare had done all the heavy lifting before I ever came on the scene. As I recall, there are potential state and institutional issues. Though ketamine is legal in my state, I guess there was significant pushback from the hospital when this was started. Eventually, a protocol was adopted to allow inpatient ketamine infusions for pain control.

The challenge becomes if you're sending people home on ketamine (e.g. to home hospice). I remember a lot of phone calls being made to area pharmacies to find one willing to work with us. We were eventually successful. I believe there's something about the stability of ketamine, the legality, or maybe both, because I think we needed to arrange frequently home deliveries (like, 3x a week).

Two things I learned:

1) Ketamine worked when nothing else did. This patient was in agony and we were using high doses of everything else with minimal efficacy. It was a drastic improvement.

2) I would start with your local Palliative Care and/or Hospice docs. Even if they don't have avenues in place for you, I imagine you'll find them easy allies down the road.
 
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Several months ago, I was working with the Palliative Care docs on a patient with incredibly challenging pain control issues. Ultimately we were able to get the patient on ketamine infusions.

Fortunately for me, PallCare had done all the heavy lifting before I ever came on the scene. As I recall, there are potential state and institutional issues. Though ketamine is legal in my state, I guess there was significant pushback from the hospital when this was started. Eventually, a protocol was adopted to allow inpatient ketamine infusions for pain control.

The challenge becomes if you're sending people home on ketamine (e.g. to home hospice). I remember a lot of phone calls being made to area pharmacies to find one willing to work with us. We were eventually successful. I believe there's something about the stability of ketamine, the legality, or maybe both, because I think we needed to arrange frequently home deliveries (like, 3x a week).

Two things I learned:

1) Ketamine worked when nothing else did. This patient was in agony and we were using high doses of everything else with minimal efficacy. It was a drastic improvement.

2) I would start with your local Palliative Care and/or Hospice docs. Even if they don't have avenues in place for you, I imagine you'll find them easy allies down the road.
I have prescribed intranasal ketamine from compounding pharmacy (not eskatamine- the s enantomer). It was 50$ and worked.
Both ketamine and psilocybin effect hippocampal neuro Genesis. Not sure why no one is looking at this with whole brain. How about 5 meoDMT?
 
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Several months ago, I was working with the Palliative Care docs on a patient with incredibly challenging pain control issues. Ultimately we were able to get the patient on ketamine infusions.

Fortunately for me, PallCare had done all the heavy lifting before I ever came on the scene. As I recall, there are potential state and institutional issues. Though ketamine is legal in my state, I guess there was significant pushback from the hospital when this was started. Eventually, a protocol was adopted to allow inpatient ketamine infusions for pain control.

The challenge becomes if you're sending people home on ketamine (e.g. to home hospice). I remember a lot of phone calls being made to area pharmacies to find one willing to work with us. We were eventually successful. I believe there's something about the stability of ketamine, the legality, or maybe both, because I think we needed to arrange frequently home deliveries (like, 3x a week).

Two things I learned:

1) Ketamine worked when nothing else did. This patient was in agony and we were using high doses of everything else with minimal efficacy. It was a drastic improvement.

2) I would start with your local Palliative Care and/or Hospice docs. Even if they don't have avenues in place for you, I imagine you'll find them easy allies down the road.
Thanks, but I'm talking more in the context of existential suffering. There is the interesting work out of jhu, and I think nyu as well, regarding psilocybin in this context, and I think lsd in Canada. The closest legal thing we have here is ketamine given with a "guide," though this is more generally in depression. A number of psychiatrists in my state are giving it for treatment resistant depression. Hopefully it will be given for more than that, but there's obv a big pharma disincentive to allow a therapy to happen before all the expensive daily administration therapies have been tried.
 
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Thanks, but I'm talking more in the context of existential suffering. There is the interesting work out of jhu, and I think nyu as well, regarding psilocybin in this context, and I think lsd in Canada. The closest legal thing we have here is ketamine given with a "guide," though this is more generally in depression. A number of psychiatrists in my state are giving it for treatment resistant depression. Hopefully it will be given for more than that, but there's obv a big pharma disincentive to allow a therapy to happen before all the expensive daily administration therapies have been tried.
Oh my bad!

In that case...this is something my nurses and I talk about, oh, once a week or so, haha. We're all super interested...although I guess we're waiting for someone else to take the plunge?
 
I haven't yet, but have had the discussion with one patient. That being said, I live in an area where patients would not have to travel far to access this type of care. If I do end up referring a patient I will def post here.
 
Do ketamine and magic mushroom help with crushing despair and depression from spending a decade of your prime years studying only to have a handful of work options in random corners of the country your s.o. won't move to, a large percentage of the income you generate taken by someone else, being constantly gaslit by accomplished academics that your experience is not real and everything is fine, and less autonomy than if you just hadn't gone to med school at all?

Asking for a friend.
 
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Do ketamine and magic mushroom help with crushing despair and depression from spending a decade of your prime years studying only to have a handful of work options in random corners of the country your s.o. won't move to, a large percentage of the income you generate taken by someone else, being constantly gaslit by accomplished academics that your experience is not real and everything is fine, and less autonomy than if you just hadn't gone to med school at all?

Asking for a friend.
I think the answer to that is, 'Yes!'
 
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I'd imagine MDMA is less than 3 years out from becoming quite common for depression and PTSD. It is magic.

I bet is going to have to be done by some sort of licensed practitioner in a facility.

There is a great recent NYTimes article on it for PTSD

I really want to learn more, but I suspect that one will have to be a psychiatrist and have a specific license for this.

I am so supportive of this as a treatment for many mental illnesses.
 
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I'd imagine MDMA is less than 3 years out from becoming quite common for depression and PTSD. It is magic.

I bet is going to have to be done by some sort of licensed practitioner in a facility.

There is a great recent NYTimes article on it for PTSD

I really want to learn more, but I suspect that one will have to be a psychiatrist and have a specific license for this.

I am so supportive of this as a treatment for many mental illnesses.
I think it was made by Merck and prescribed by psychiatrists in the 80s
 
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I'd imagine MDMA is less than 3 years out from becoming quite common for depression and PTSD. It is magic.

I bet is going to have to be done by some sort of licensed practitioner in a facility.

There is a great recent NYTimes article on it for PTSD

I really want to learn more, but I suspect that one will have to be a psychiatrist and have a specific license for this.

I am so supportive of this as a treatment for many mental illnesses.
 
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Really? I thought the series did a really good job of focusing on a few cases and showing potential benefits. I think at least it gets the conversation started without naysayers believing it's all about raves and hiking in the forest.
 
Really? I thought the series did a really good job of focusing on a few cases and showing potential benefits. I think at least it gets the conversation started without naysayers believing it's all about raves and hiking in the forest.
It could just be where I am in the process of thinking about pyschedelics, the mind etc. And I stopped watching the MDMA episode after they started talking to a "Dr" that got an online PhD in some type of psychology. In any case, inasmuch as it may make psilocybin, LSD etc more acceptable mainstream it is perhaps a good thing. But the depths to which the book goes is hardly approached.
 
I don't get the sense as scientists in the 2020s that we will ever truly understand the neuroscience of it all. There is something wild about how just a few sessions can "break" some of these maladies. To me, it is truly incredible.
 
I don't get the sense as scientists in the 2020s that we will ever truly understand the neuroscience of it all. There is something wild about how just a few sessions can "break" some of these maladies. To me, it is truly incredible.
I think confusion and absurdity is part of the magic. As in, experiencing something so confusing and absurd will allow you to accept that those are two descriptors for all of reality, which ultimately takes the pressure off.
 
Won't show the link, but I presume this is to the "how to change your mind" series. If so, it's meh. The book will open your eyes though.
Is it like these children's books that are accompanied with stuff to touch and smell? :D:D:D
 
I'd imagine MDMA is less than 3 years out from becoming quite common for depression and PTSD. It is magic.

I bet is going to have to be done by some sort of licensed practitioner in a facility.

There is a great recent NYTimes article on it for PTSD

I really want to learn more, but I suspect that one will have to be a psychiatrist and have a specific license for this.

I am so supportive of this as a treatment for many mental illnesses.

MDMA versus placebo for Rad Onc residency contraction: a cluster randomized trial
 
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Use of the Classic Hallucinogen Psilocybin for Treatment of Existential Distress Associated with Cancer
Psychological Aspects of Cancer
DOI: 10.1007/978-1-4614-4866-2_17

"“I had lost my faith because of anxiety, and I was just terrified. I was so anxious that it was hard to think about anything else. I didn’t think I was so worried about death as I was about the process of dying. About suffering and being in pain and having all kinds of medical procedures. I was becoming so irritable with my husband. I was just so anxious… My intention (for participation in the study) was to be able to control my anxiety so
I could enjoy the rest of my life. I was not enjoying my life at all.

As soon as it (the psilocybin) started working I knew I had nothing to be afraid of… It connected me with the universe… It was very gentle… And there were people (the treatment team) right there if I got upset… Everything looked absolutely beautiful. I didn’t see things that weren’t there. With my eyes closed I saw patterns, and visions and faces. I thought about being involved with people I loved, things I would do with people I knew, things I would tell them… I had an amazing spiritual experience. It re-connected me to the universe.

Comments from her husband 4 months after her death:

“Annie’s mood remained greatly improved for some time after the treatment. She also had much less anxiety, and her fear of getting sicker and her fear of the dying process also diminished a great deal. Beyond that, she and I got along much better after her psilocybin treatment … I have no doubt that the treatment Annie went through was of great value to her …”

From another patient journal entry:
"From here on love was the only consideration. Everything that happened, anything and everything that was seen or heard centered on love. It was and is the only purpose. Love seemed to emanate from a single point of light … It was so pure. The sheer joy … the bliss was indescribable. And in fact there are no words to accurately capture my experience … my state … this place. I know I’ve had no earthly pleasure that’s ever come close to this feeling … no sensation, no image of beauty, nothing during my time on earth has felt as pure and joyful and glorious as the height of this journey … I felt very warm but pleasantly so …"

"[On the day after the experience] …I felt spectacular … both physically and mentally! It had been a very long time since I’d felt that good … a serene sense of balance … a level of contentedness, peace and happiness that lasted all day and into the evening. Undoubtedly, my life has changed in ways I may never fully comprehend. But I now have an understanding … an awareness that goes beyond intellect … that my life, that every life, and all that is the universe, equals one thing … love."

Conclusion:
"The hallucinogen treatment model therefore offers a novel and potentially valuable approach for addressing the existential crisis often observed in cancer patients, with the potential of significantly improving overall quality of life and psychospiritual well-being for the time that remains in their lives."
 
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Therapeutic use of classic psychedelics to treat cancer-related psychiatric distress
Stephen Ross (2018): Therapeutic use of classic psychedelics to treat cancer-related psychiatric distress, International Review of Psychiatry, DOI: 10.1080/09540261.2018.1482261
Review article

"Four RCTs trials were published between 2011 and 2016 (n = 104), mostly with psilocybin treatment (n = 92), and demonstrated that psychedelic-assisted treatment can produce rapid, robust, and sustained improvements in cancer-related psychological and existential distress."

"Existential distress is under-recognized and undertreated in cancer patients within western medicine, there are no established medications with efficacy for this typology of distress, and having an intervention that can diminish the psychic agony and fear associated with the dying process could have enormous benefit for patients as they approach death. Use of psilocybin-assisted treatment in the terminally ill could be especially useful for patients in inpatient or outpatient hospice settings, and could aid the process of dying with dignity to help occasion a ‘good’ death process, in contrast to the current poor state of existential care of the dying in the US and internationally (Meier et al., 2016)."



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Rapid and sustained symptom reduction following psilocybin treatment for anxiety and depression in patients with life-threatening cancer: a randomized controlled trial
Journal of Psychopharmacology 2016, Vol. 30(12) 1165–1180
DOI: 10.1177/0269881116675512

"Conclusions: In conjunction with psychotherapy, single moderate-dose psilocybin produced rapid, robust and enduring anxiolytic and anti-depressant effects in patients with cancer-related psychological distress."

"Psilocybin was associated with substantial anti-depressant response rates (as high as approximately 80% at 6.5 months follow-up)."

"In conclusion, single moderate-dose psilocybin (in conjunction with psychotherapy) was safely administered to a cohort of patients with cancer-related psychological distress (e.g. anxiety, depression). It produced rapid and sustained anxiolytic and anti-depressant effects (for at least 7 weeks but potentially as long as 8 months), decreased cancer-related existential distress, increased spiritual wellbeing and quality of life, and was associated with improved attitudes towards death. The psilocybin-induced mystical experience mediated the anxiolytic and anti-depressant effects of psilocybin. Psilocybin, administered in conjunction with appropriate psychotherapy, could become a novel pharmacological-psychosocial treatment modality for cancer-related psychological and existential distress. Further empirical research is needed definitively to establish its safety and efficacy."
 
Do ketamine and magic mushroom help with crushing despair and depression from spending a decade of your prime years studying only to have a handful of work options in random corners of the country your s.o. won't move to, a large percentage of the income you generate taken by someone else, being constantly gaslit by accomplished academics that your experience is not real and everything is fine, and less autonomy than if you just hadn't gone to med school at all?

Asking for a friend.
ABSOLUTELY THEY HELP!
 
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Grace Slick - what a voice.

White Rabbit, Jefferson Starship (Alice in Wonderland):

"When the men on the chessboard
Get up and tell you where to go
And you've just had some kind of mushroom
And your mind is moving low
Go ask Alice
I think she'll know"

 
Tomorrow I'm going on a guided ketamine trip fwiw. Wanted to start at the bottom. Perhaps others have experience with this or more. I plan to head west at some point in the near future to try the true psychedelics, but this is what I have locally, and wanted to see if it seemed like it might help my patients (i'm gonna try to write it off).
 
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Tomorrow I'm going on a guided ketamine trip fwiw. Wanted to start at the bottom. Perhaps others have experience with this or more. I plan to head west at some point in the near future to try the true psychedelics, but this is what I have locally, and wanted to see if it seemed like it might help my patients (i'm gonna try to write it off).
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Went tobogganing down the universal river this afternoon. Quite the experience. Next stop, true psychedelics. In any case, this could clearly help. Too bad it's so complicated to come by in the freest country on earth.
 
Went tobogganing down the universal river this afternoon. Quite the experience. Next stop, true psychedelics. In any case, this could clearly help. Too bad it's so complicated to come by in the freest country on earth.
Next time smoke the 5 meo dmt -toad venom which apparently is the mt Everest of psychedelics.

 
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yw
 
I am down for an ayahuasca trip in a south american swamp, drink some maté with an anaconda. Peyote with native americans would be cool too.
 
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Next time smoke the 5 meo dmt -toad venom which apparently is the mt Everest of psychedelics.

Haha. As much as I'm a believer in psychedelics, they can only do so much with the materials they're given. Mike Tyson is a very different starting point
 
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MD Anderson must be reading our posts!!!

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This was a heck of an episode. Koffler is gonna be “someone”.

 
This was a heck of an episode. Koffler is gonna be “someone”.


Interesting. Sounds like a thoughtful person. I wish I had more time/brain space to truly think about this stuff. I probably do, but I end up watching stand up specials instead. I also just watched a Netflix documentary about the Tebow era gators, which is one of the least interesting things I've ever seen. Yet I watched it.
 
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Interesting. Sounds like a thoughtful person. I wish I had more time/brain space to truly think about this stuff. I probably do, but I end up watching stand up specials instead. I also just watched a Netflix documentary about the Tebow era gators, which is one of the least interesting things I've ever seen. Yet I watched it.

I edited this podcast, got super hyped, came in all inspired to get to work today.

Then I read that SCAROP letter again. I knew it was going to make me mad. I knew it would lead to several typed out and deleted tweets/posts.

And yet, social media enriches my life too!
 
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