Psychiatric dermatologic conditions?

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ladysmanfelpz

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I'm doing a little powerpoint for a preceptor on title. I was just wondering if I missed anything. So far I have psychiatric parasitosis, body dysmorphic disorder, factorial dermatitis, neurotic excoriations and acne excorie, brimhydroso phobia, trichotillomania, onchotillomania, lichen simplex chronicus, and prurigo nodularis. Is there anything else I am missing that is psychologically related where a patient may end up in a Derm's office? Thanks

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How about dermatologic stigmata of substance use?
 
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Psoriasis has a very strong association with depression and alcoholism.

Also if you're getting into BDD and olfactory reference syndrome, why not illness anxiety disorder generally? Might as well hit all the OCRDs...

If you want to get fancy then there is more English literature than you'd expect on taijin kyofusho and in some parts of the US you might legitimately encounter it not too rarely.
 
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(I am not a doctor.)

I don't know much about Morgellon's, but I know enough to know it's not well understood and controversial and has fallen under the purview of both psychiatry and dermatology.

 
what about infections etc. from extreme nail picking/biting? also i was trying to think if there was a different term for the red nose associated w/ prlonged alocholism, so ran across this: Skin diseases in alcoholics - PubMed
"The most common skin manifestations of alcoholism presented in this review article are urticarial reactions, porphyria cutanea tarda, flushing, cutaneous stigmata of cirrhosis, psoriasis, pruritus, seborrheic dermatitis, and rosacea."
 
also perhaps more generally rather than a specific skin condition, but poor quality of hair, skin, nails due to eating disorders or other conditions that might cause nutrient/vitamin deficiency. I agree it would be interesting to include possible dermatologic side effects of medications used to treat various psych conditions. e.g., adderall (and especially abuse thereof) can cause various skin conditions that resolve upon cessation of the drug use.

Interesting topic- hope your presentation goes well!
 
Interesting topic. I'd include alternative names to some of the above, Morgellan's for delusional parasitosis for example.

Also, don't forget the basics! Russell's Sign should be an immediate red flag for purging and consideration of an eating disorder.


If you want to get fancy then there is more English literature than you'd expect on taijin kyofusho and in some parts of the US you might legitimately encounter it not too rarely.

Aren't there multiple sub-types of that though? If we're looking into really specific things then I'd also include trypophobia 2/2 inflamed comedones.
 
Aren't there multiple sub-types of that though? If we're looking into really specific things then I'd also include trypophobia 2/2 inflamed comedones.

There are, but some of them are fear of offending people via your body odor/sweat and fear of your face being deformed in some way that would upset people, which could lead to going to see a dermatologist.
 
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Interesting topic. I'd include alternative names to some of the above, Morgellan's for delusional parasitosis for example.
morgellons is not an alternative name for delusional parasitosis the eponym for which is ekbom syndrome. Morgellons is an internet spread shared delusional disorder where patients think they have fibers in their skin and have characteristic ulceration due to skin picking. It is a disease patients think they have instead of delusional disorder. It used to be a big thing in the early 2000s I see few patients claiming to have it these days
 
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Interesting topic. I'd include alternative names to some of the above, Morgellan's for delusional parasitosis for example.

Also, don't forget the basics! Russell's Sign should be an immediate red flag for purging and consideration of an eating disorder.




Aren't there multiple sub-types of that though? If we're looking into really specific things then I'd also include trypophobia 2/2 inflamed comedones.
Or as a medication adverse reaction?
 
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morgellons is not an alternative name for delusional parasitosis the eponym for which is ekbom syndrome. Morgellons is an internet spread shared delusional disorder where patients think they have fibers in their skin and have characteristic ulceration due to skin picking. It is a disease patients think they have instead of delusional disorder. It used to be a big thing in the early 2000s I see few patients claiming to have it these days

Ah, thank you. I've seen a couple of people claiming to have the disorder (though they didn't call it Morgellon's, they just said they had the fibers/parasites which obviously weren't there). Of the 2-3 people I've known who believed they had it, they all thought the "fibers" were actual parasites or worms coming from their skin, so I often (incorrectly) group the two together. All of them also had significant problems with meth which also adds to my error. I've always considered Morgellon's to be a form of a psychiatric/substance-related delusional disorder resulting in physical symptoms (excoriations), though I realize this may not be how it's generally seen.

Or as a medication adverse reaction?

Oh wow, interesting case. Haven't seen something like this before, but I'm always interested in unusual cases.
 
morgellons is not an alternative name for delusional parasitosis the eponym for which is ekbom syndrome. Morgellons is an internet spread shared delusional disorder where patients think they have fibers in their skin and have characteristic ulceration due to skin picking. It is a disease patients think they have instead of delusional disorder. It used to be a big thing in the early 2000s I see few patients claiming to have it these days
In residency a friend who was a dermatologist and I talked about an embedded psych clinic because of how commonly there was psychiatric overtones in derm issues. I told him to send any patients my way since I was interested in this and would get about 20 referrals from this persons derm clinic, not a single person showed over the two years, except one who wanted a bzd rx because their pcp was retiring.

I think it’s more common than we think, we just rarely have patients with this issue show up in our clinics.
 
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Derm condition induced by psych medication
Psychiatric conditions caused by derm medication
Derm conditions exacerbated by psychiatric conditions
Gardner Diamond
Rhinotillexomania, although that might be more of an ENT thing
If you want to make Clauswitz2 sound even more fancy than he is : Brimidrophobia (I've actually treated a physician for this)
 
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In residency a friend who was a dermatologist and I talked about an embedded psych clinic because of how commonly there was psychiatric overtones in derm issues. I told him to send any patients my way since I was interested in this and would get about 20 referrals from this persons derm clinic, not a single person showed over the two years, except one who wanted a bzd rx because their pcp was retiring.

I think it’s more common than we think, we just rarely have patients with this issue show up in our clinics.
Yh I've been to a psychodermatology clinic. The worst thing you can say to these patients is that their symptoms are due to a psychiatric illness. The delusion is way too strong and they'll deny it to kingdom come. So the dermatologist just ends up treating primary psych patients with antipsychotics. Weird set up but it works.
 
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I feel like Derm and GI both could benefit from having a psychiatrist around a lot of the time, like genuinely embedded/co-located. The last time I went in for a skin exam the dermatologist started excitedly curbsiding me during the exam the minute he found out I was a psychiatrist.
 
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I feel like Derm and GI both could benefit from having a psychiatrist around a lot of the time, like genuinely embedded/co-located. The last time I went in for a skin exam the dermatologist started excitedly curbsiding me during the exam the minute he found out I was a psychiatrist.

Right like physically in the clinic or with clinic attached with dedicated paid time for consults/patient discussions during the day. The problem with "referring" people to psychiatry is that only the people who 1) are motivated to schedule and actually go to another doctors appointment and 2) think they need to see a psychiatrist, will show up. The rest will never make the appointment, like was mentioned above.
 
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In residency a friend who was a dermatologist and I talked about an embedded psych clinic because of how commonly there was psychiatric overtones in derm issues. I told him to send any patients my way since I was interested in this and would get about 20 referrals from this persons derm clinic, not a single person showed over the two years, except one who wanted a bzd rx because their pcp was retiring.

I think it’s more common than we think, we just rarely have patients with this issue show up in our clinics.
It's like general neuro clinic. Something like 30% (I might be exaggerating?) of their outpatients are FNSD but we don't end up seeing the vast majority of them for various reasons (lack of engagement in psych treatment, pretty good remission rates, most gen psych not particularly skilled/knowledgeable with that population.)
 
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(I am not a doctor.)

I don't know much about Morgellon's, but I know enough to know it's not well understood and controversial and has fallen under the purview of both psychiatry and dermatology.

And if they don't show up for their psychiatry appointment, I'd imagine they are getting a very different second opinion from someone like the lead author of the quoted Morgellon's Disease article, Rapheal Stricker MD, who is a "past President of the International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society (ILADS) and a current board member of LymeDisease.org. He is also a member of the California State Lyme Disease Advisory Committee, and he has testified at Lyme disease hearings before the California State Senate and the United States Congress." He was also educated and trained at Columbia and "did subspecialty training in Hematology/Oncology at the University of California San Francisco fellowship" before being terminated for cause (conveniently withheld).

Furthermore he has some very serious allegations of scientific fraud against him including falsification of data leading to retraction of scientific work. The further down the rabbit hole I went the more questionable material I found. In his patient intake packet, he charges $850 for a one hour intake appointment (or $700 for his personally trained NP) paid upfront, no insurance of course. For 30 minute follow-up ("in office or by phone") its $500. It also includes this lovely line "If you find that you need to talk at length, we urge you to seek support from a therapist."

Instead of using FDA approved testing, "Unfortunately, the sensitivity and specificity of many FDA approved tests are too low to be reliant. As such, most are referred to as “coin-toss” testing." he relies on instead a Bay Area based IGeneX "due to its high sensitivity and specificity." Apparently "IGeneX is not required to be FDA approved. IGeneX provides services on clinical samples. We do not sell test kits." The company, like Rapheal Stricker, has a colorful past and is unlikely to be reimbursed by insurance. Here is a nice summary, although somewhat biased, of unorthodox testing for Lyme Disease. Both of them, Stricker and IGeneX, appear to be moving beyond the regulatory domain of the FDA and US insurance agencies by expanding into Mexico. You may also find it interesting IGeneX has also been conducting COVID-19 testing.

The chronic Lyme/Morgellon's movement has several parallels to Andrew Wakefield and the anti-vaccination movement. The scope of some of these movements is staggering with political backing, medical degrees from prestigious institutions, pseudoscience published in journals (Stricker has over 35 scientific articles on pubmed, including this one advocating for treating COVID-19 with antibiotics), professional appearing websites, and who knows how much money is involved. We are discussing treating individual cases of misdiagnosed patients with underlying delusional disorder/ somatic symptom disorder but its seems to be more of a societal/population level issue. All of this is not to say that the mainstream medical body is infallible or that we're right and the "others" are therefore always wrong, especially when it comes to illnesses of the mind which deal with uncertainty and epistemology. I'm reminded of the story of undercovering the H. pylori linked etiology of peptic ulcers versus "stress." The medical field changed course and even awarded Marshall and Warren the Nobel Prize. I just don't see Stricker being put up for a Nobel anytime soon.

TLDR; I fell into a rabbit hole. Article referenced is by a discredited physician with ties to the chronic Lyme community. The scope of the delusional disorder prevalence is likely larger than we understand and being perpetuated by seedy characters/organizations with ulterior motives.
 
I’m not sure that I would call LSC psychiatric. It can be, but its thickening of the skin in response to chronic rubbing which can be from very real pathology
 
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