Psychiatry is a HOAX? What?!?

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illusenjester

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http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1246920

Take a gander at this thread I stumbled upon. This is kind of surprising to me because I've always wanted to be a doctor, and seeing this kind of...disturbs me. I'm taking a psychology class (I'm in high school, junior) and thinking about telling the teacher about this, but I don't want to bother my teacher with nonsense if those people are just being paranoid idiots. I would really love your opinions, guys. Most of you are medical students so you know more in this field, thanks.
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I wouldn't show this to your professor unless you wanted to look dumb.
 
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That video is from the CCHR-a front group for the Church of Scientology. I've seen that video, in its entirety. Its a piece of propagandist & unfairly presented data, with every bit of shock value intentionally added to it such as gory music & dark pictures when psychiatrists are interviewed, and then happy music when CCHR members are interviewed.

Several of the doctors in that video are not credible research doctors. Several doctors in there are, but their comments are taken out of context. For example, one of the psychiatirst in the video, I've met personally and he doesn't back CCHR in any way shape or form. He was interviewed for several minutes & they only took a few moments out his interview--the moments that they could splice that they could exploit.

Is it true that there aren't lab tests in psychiatry? Yes and no. We use behaviors we gauge, and obtain history from interviews, but we also rule out medical causes of mental illness such as for example hypothyroidism. We use a urine drug screen for example to rule out drug induced psychosis. There is for example no specific lab test that can prove or disprove if a patient is depressed. However any medstudent knows this is true of several medical disorders, psychiatric or not.

We often base diagnosis on clusters of symptoms which several medical professions do because they too are in a state where labs tests cannot yet diagnose their disorders. E.g. Still's disease-a disease that affects the kidneys? Would CCHR, Szasz or the Church of Scientology then keep consistent with their logic & deny the existence of Still's disease?

Take for example Lupus. It too is diagnosed based on clusters of symptoms.

Diabetes too was once diagnosed based on clusters of symptoms & not lab tests because the science from decades ago was not yet advanced enough to dx it. Doctors often had to resort to tasting urine, & had to have a sensitive palate to be able to detect it. Does that disprove diabetes existed before the advent of modern testing methods?

As for psychiatry--yes we're not at that point yet where we can apply lab tests for much of it. Does that invalidate mental illness? Well look at it this way. 100 years ago when blood sugar tests were not yet available, would that prove that diabetes did not exist?

And as a contradiction to their own argument--they criticize psychiatry for lack of lab tests--but at the same time, for psychiatry to get a proper lab test created--research into psychiatric illness, on the order that CCHR demands would involve invasive lab testing into human subjects' brains. E.g. drilling holes into the brains of people mentally ill to gauge neurotransmitter levels & such. Yet they criticize research that was once done in that area decades ago before proper human rights have been identified to protect subjects & blame psychiatry for engaging in it.

As for Thomas S. Szasz, he's associated himself with CCHR which is a known front group for the Church of Scientology and he basically advocates that there's no such thing as mental illness, but at the same time offers treatment for it.

It is completely true that sometimes patients get involuntarily committed due to errors in the system. Just like cops sometimes detain suspects who turn out to not be guilty, just like people who are suspected of carrying Ebola might get quarantined, even if it turned out they were not carrying it. Is that unfair? Of course it is. However the right way to handle it is to have 3rd party evaluation, anonymous whistle blowing oppurtunities, mental health advocates & under cover investigators frequently double check institutions that engage in involuntary hospitalization to make sure the system is working fairly. That is going on and I fully advocate that such measures be put into place, and that any psychiatrists who are unfairly holding patients without justifiable cause be pointed out & dealt with, just like a crooked cop should be brought out.

If you want to allow the mentally ill to walk free, even those that are dangerous to others--ok fine, then let that guy infected with Ebola walk around, give people the freedom to buy, sell & eat rotten meat without inspection & let murderers go free because they should have the right to kill who they want, we won't need any police officers arresting anyone.
 
michaelrack said:
Don't waste your teacher's time with this nonsense. They're being idiots.
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Why do you think so?
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv469wuAS6g[/YOUTUBE]

Watch this short video, it seems very exaggerated but is there any truth to what they are saying at all? Is psychiatry really an industry of death? Perscribing pills to millions and treating instead of curing, it just seems like a hit on the head to me and I'm not sure what to believe. I want to believe you guys when you say they're being idiots, I just need facts and reasonsings.
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Diabetes type I--an Industry of Death.

There is no cure for diabetes type I....oh yeah, and therefore it is an industry of death. There is no cure, only a treatment.

Systemic Lupus Erythematosis: There is no single lab test that can correctly diagnosis it. Its diagnosis is based on a cluster of several factors, some of them that must be observed by the doctor, and there is no cure for it. Only treatments. Therefore doctors that engage in the treatment of SLE are part of an Industry of Death.

Still's Disease. There is no specific lab test that can diagnose it. The treatment involves giving pills. Nephrologists are now part of the Industry of Death.

The biggest provider of psychiatric medications are not psychaitrists but primary care providers such as Family Practictioners, they too are part of the Industry of Death.

Yes my friend, I too am part of that Industry, and when I go home, I press a secret button behind a painting, and a secret command center door opens. I then communicate with my Leader--Stewie Griffin, and we discuss our plans to take over the world.

Dude, I saw that video and its presented in a very unfair manner. You're young & in the early stages of your training and you've seen a video that had millions of dollars pumped into making it. Heck Fox played a similar style documentary years ago claiming the Moon Landing was a hoax and people actually walked away from it thinking it might be a hoax. If you were around the corner, I'd have a beer with you & talk to you about how bogus the video is. Unfortunately, all I can do is give you a post back.
 
whopper said:
Several doctors in there are, but their comments are taken out of context. For example, one of the psychiatirst in the video, I've met personally and he doesn't back CCHR in any way shape or form. He was interviewed for several minutes & they only took a few moments out his interview--the moments that they could splice that they could exploit.
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Sounds like they learned something from Michael Moore. 🙄
 
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There is of course the possibility that Illusenjester is a scientologist trolling the board with the usual propaganda, given that the posts from him/her on this forum are his/her only ones. However the questions are legitimate, especially since the video is very misrepresentational & had millions of dollars pumped into making it. Its a piece of propaganda that will confuse the open minded that haven't studied the field extensively.

I have seen the video in its entirety. Its called "Psychiatry: An Industry of Death".

I am being quite sincere when I say its presentation was on the same order of misinformation & misrepresentation that the Fox documentary claiming the Apollo Moon landing was a hoax. The presentation was so similar, with the same spliced comments, overly dramatic music & calls for direct evidence on an order that could not be accomplished (such as having another country fly to the moon to verify) I was actually wondering if the same people worked on it.

The Wikipedia entry on it is quite accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychiatry:_An_Industry_of_Death

The CCHR has been criticized by journalist Andrew Gumbel for "crudeness" and "paranoia" in its criticism of psychiatry. Gumbel, who covered the museum's gala opening for Los Angeles CityBeat magazine, described how CCHR publicist Marla Filidei attempted to engage him in a debate about the evils of psychiatry:

" I told her I wasn't a scientist and had no interest in getting into a detailed argument about the benefits or dangers of mood-altering drugs; on the other hand, she wasn't a scientist either, and the Church of Scientology had absolutely no standing to pronounce on medical issues. That clearly riled her, because by the time I got home there was an e-mail waiting in which she called our meeting "the most bizarre encounter I have had with a reporter in 10 years" and essentially berated me for refusing to engage in an argument she was clearly itching to have [...]. The crudeness of the anti-psychiatric argument is tinged with a distinct patina of paranoia. It's not enough for Scientologists to express their near-pathological hatred of psychiatry in all its forms; they also have to feel they are being persecuted for their beliefs.[7] "

Two scientists featured in the DVD, Holocaust scholar Michael Berenbaum and bioethics scholar Arthur Caplan, have rejected the attack on psychiatry and psychology. Berenbaum stated that "I have known psychiatrists to be of enormous assistance to people deeply important to me in my life," and Caplan complained that he had been taped without being told what the film was about, and called the producers "smarmy and dishonest."[8]
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By the way, the Psychiatrist I mentioned who I met personally & in fact have worked with him that was misrepresented is a very active member of the NJ Psychiatric Association.

We both attended a dinner where the NJPA presented an award to former NJ Governor Richard Cody. As Gov Codey got his award, we both stood up & gaving him a standing ovation at the ceremony. Why did we give him an award?

Gov. Codey had uncovered several human rights violations occurring at a NJ Psychiatric inpatient facility-Marlboro, by working undercover. He also advanced the watchdog system that allows & advocates for undercover state investigators, and mental health advocates (many of whom are former patients) to make sure psychiatric facilities are observing human rights.

Gov Codey by the way is considered a hero in the psychiatric community & the APA, and is considered to have advanced the field of psychiatry. He is also a very strong advocate for the field of psychiatry & has defended psychiatry from several of the less than honest statements from Scientologists.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9B0DEEDB1231F93BA35750C0A961948260

I fully advocate Gov Codey's actions and fully admit that psychiatry--like any other field needs 3rd party observation to make sure we, just like any other group does our jobs objectively & follow the rules.

This is something that Scientology video doesn't show. What Psychiatry & any profession needs are people to make sure it follows the rules--people like Gov. Cody. What we don't need are people willing to shove lies & misrepresentation down the throats of others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Codey

I also believe Illusenjester to be a psychology student with an open mind because his/her questions are the same I'd expect of anyone who didn't know the field who saw that propaganda. I'm hoping I'm right.

PS-Illusenjester-keep that open mind. The field needs people who'll question & think about these issues critically.
 
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whopper said:
If you were around the corner, I'd have a beer with you & talk to you about how bogus the video is. Unfortunately, all I can do is give you a post back.
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How about a coke instead, as I'm a minor and all 😀
And by the way your posts (and others too) are extremely appreciated, you said something about me being spreading Scientologist propaganda? Hell no, I'm not spreading anything around, my mission is to find out the truth of all and justify uncertain matters like this one (assuming this video is BS). See, being a doctor to me is like a dream come true and just stumbling upon this makes me cringe, it's disturbing and irks me because I want to help others and have a job that's worth doing, by TRULY helping others in any way. I take a psychology class in my high school as an elective for my junior year, being a psychologist doesn't interest me as much as being a doctor though (that was my plan before I took this class) Then I discovered about psychiatry, and that interested me. That's something I look forward to finding out more about, so as I'm searching around you can imagine me stumbling upon that video and wanting to know and ask questions, "Is it true? What if being a psychiatrist is wrong? Should I change my goals to being a teacher instead? They're making people miserable for money!" et cetera...
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illusenjester said:
How about a coke instead, as I'm a minor and all 😀
And by the way your posts (and others too) are extremely appreciated, you said something about me being spreading Scientologist propaganda? Hell no, I'm not spreading anything around, my mission is to find out the truth of all and justify uncertain matters like this one (assuming this video is BS). See, being a doctor to me is like a dream come true and just stumbling upon this makes me cringe, it's disturbing and irks me because I want to help others and have a job that's worth doing, by TRULY helping others in any way. I take a psychology class in my high school as an elective for my junior year, being a psychologist doesn't interest me as much as being a doctor though (that was my plan before I took this class) Then I discovered about psychiatry, and that interested me. That's something I look forward to finding out more about, so as I'm searching around you can imagine me stumbling upon that video and wanting to know and ask questions, "Is it true? What if being a psychiatrist is wrong? Should I change my goals to being a teacher instead? They're making people miserable for money!" et cetera...
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Don't buy into the propaganda. Work hard on getting into med school. There is a good chance you wont select psychiatry as your specialty because psychiatry is only one of 30+ specialties/subspecialties out there. If you still stick to psychiatry, I am sure you will find it rewarding just as much as anything in medicine. The question is... do you like medicine enough to go through the hell known as medical college/residency.
 
My gutt impression was that you are who you said you were.

this is 100% true.
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Some teachers might appreciate students who question. This is the sign of a truly thinking mind. However some teachers also see their job as only their job & want to go home ASAP.

If you're teacher is the former, he'll appreciate you questioning. If he's the latter, he's going to get ticked with you questioning what he's teaching.

Psychiatry unfortunately has the same type of risks where our clients (patients) are often in a position where they will not be believed or listened to should they have a complaint. This tips power over to us. Same occurs in several other professions such as being the geriatrician in a nursing home full of demented patients, or being a police/security guard in a prison.

History is filled with several situations where when this type of power over the norm can be abused, and it has in the past. Not just by psychiatrists but by doctors in all fields of medicine & people in all professions. In the 80s, there were several reports of nursing home patients being abused. There are several elderly abused by their own adult children who take care of them. There are several reports of police brutality.

The solution in the case of police brutality is to not get rid of the police & law enforcement, its for Internal Affairs, prisoner advocates, defense attorneys & local government to get involved & make sure everyone is doing their jobs right.

Same too with psychiatry. Our power to commit gives us legal power similar to the police because we can incarcerate people. When we get someone who appears to be mentally ill & is willing to kill themselves or others due to mental illness--we are bound legally to commit them. Just like police brutality happens--with the several doctors that practice-mistakes can occur. However these mistakes do not justify that psychiatry be destroyed, just like a case of police brutality does not justify that the entire legal system be destroyed.

That video as I mentioned is produced by CCHR which is a front group for the Church of Scientology, which has for decades lead a paranoid campaign against Psychiatry, & has been identified as a cult.

The following was an article in Time Magazine on Scientology & is considered one of the best pieces of investigative journalism of the 80s.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Fishman/time-behar.html
 
illusenjester said:
How about a coke instead, as I'm a minor and all 😀
And by the way your posts (and others too) are extremely appreciated, you said something about me being spreading Scientologist propaganda? Hell no, I'm not spreading anything around, my mission is to find out the truth of all and justify uncertain matters like this one (assuming this video is BS). See, being a doctor to me is like a dream come true and just stumbling upon this makes me cringe, it's disturbing and irks me because I want to help others and have a job that's worth doing, by TRULY helping others in any way. I take a psychology class in my high school as an elective for my junior year, being a psychologist doesn't interest me as much as being a doctor though (that was my plan before I took this class) Then I discovered about psychiatry, and that interested me. That's something I look forward to finding out more about, so as I'm searching around you can imagine me stumbling upon that video and wanting to know and ask questions, "Is it true? What if being a psychiatrist is wrong? Should I change my goals to being a teacher instead? They're making people miserable for money!" et cetera...
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Don't think I've ever shared this on the forum, but seems to fit.

I was applying to med school at the ripe old age of 28. I'd spent 6 years after undergrad in a service job that had been pretty frustrating, and not a good fit for my personality. Basically I was thinking primary care, small-town family practice because that's what I'd grown up with as "what doctors did".

I was interviewing at Mayo med school (not where I ultimately ended up) and I remember the conversation very clearly. The guy looked at my personal statement and life experience and said--"You know, you should consider psychiatry." And I said--"No, I don't think so. I want to be able to DO things for people." The interviewer kind of smiled and gave me a really earnest "Oh you'll see. They really do." and moved on.

Well guess what--he was right. He even qualifies as prophetic, I think, in that I eventually did choose psych, and that this conversation still sticks in my mind. Anyway, I thought to share this since it illustrated the total lack of awareness we often have about specialties until we actually get there, and how sometimes the influences that guide our path just start out as the most innocuous little nudges.

Glad you brought your interest to us.
 
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Faebinder said:
There is a good chance you wont select psychiatry as your specialty because psychiatry is only one of 30+ specialties/subspecialties out there.
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Why is there a good chance I won't select it as a specialty? And why is that even good, are you saying there's something to being a psychiatrist or it's not for me...?

Faebinder said:
The question is... do you like medicine enough to go through the hell known as medical college/residency.
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Ah...I just don't know. I'm not experienced at all in the medical field and have absolutely no idea what it's about. Sure, I've heard it's hard as hell, whatever...I mean what's life without challanges to go through? It only makes it more rewarding. All I know is that there's something about the doctors field that interests me, and everytime I go to my doctor (who is a pediatrition, remember I'm still a minor) I get this huge admiration for the whole staff, they seem so into it and know what they're doing and talking with other patients/helping, that's what I really want. I just dunno yet about the medical stuff, I'm sure you all will help me out with that stuff though. 😀
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Medschool & premed are tough, but like you said, what's life without challenges. (& IMHO engineering is tougher in undergrad than premed, though medschool is worse).

If you're serious about medschool, go to the premed & medschool sections and ask there for advice. While we could help you out in that area, residents (& attendings) are somewhat removed & farther along in the training.

My own advice is choose well where you go to premed. Some colleges & universities have a horrendous weed out mentality that eliminates several people that could've been great medstudents & doctors. Other programs have a more nurturing environment.
 
Premed? I thought you just went from 4 years to college to medical school...
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illusenjester said:
Premed? I thought you just went from 4 years to college to medical school...
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That's correct - 4 years college then off to med school.**

But, while in college, if people already specifically know they are planning to go to med school they may refer to themselves as "premed". I'm not sure - at some schools there may even be a major that is called "premed" (but would seem like a pretty useless major if you changed your mind later). In general, med schools don't care WHAT you majored in, just as long as you completed enough of the science, etc. courses that are prerequisites for med school. (There's someone in my med school class who majored in FRENCH & minored in biology or something like that...)

At my school there was no "premed" major (so, for example, I was a biology major), but we did have a premed ADVISOR people could talk to to make sure that they were choosing courses that not only fulfilled their degree requirments but also the "prerequisites" for getting into med school. (And she could also advise people about other things to do during college to make oneself a stronger applicant for med school. Then during the 4th year of college she was able to provide a lot of help to people applying to med school, she could advise them about different schools to apply to, help them with questions about the application process, etc.)

I think what Whopper was talking about was looking for one of the forums here on studentdoctor that is geared specifically to people who are "premed". (ie - not yet in med school, but planning to go that route eventually, or at least thinking about it...)

**By the way, I know there is a tiny little handful of programs around the country where you enter into a six-year program right after high school - at the end of 6 years you get your M.D. degree. You have to KNOW already at that stage of the game you want to go to med school if you are going to enroll in one of these programs. (If I remember right, you never actually get a bachelor's degree, only an M.D.) University of Missouri at Kansas City has a program of this type...
(If you enroll in a regular 4-year college and major in something like biology, with the thought that you might go to med school after college, you still have some flexibility to do other things with that [biology] degree if you change your mind about the med school part.)
 
Still Kickin said:
You have to KNOW already at that stage of the game you want to go to med school if you are going to enroll in one of these programs.
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Ugh but that's the problem, I don't know. Is there any programs for high school students who could be apprentices or like junior assistance to psychiatrists or doctors? By the way, are dentists considered doctors? Off-topic, I know it's just been bugging me and I need to know.
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OldPsychDoc said:
Don't think I've ever shared this on the forum, but seems to fit.
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:nod: Well thank you for sharing, I've a small question though. Was the journey to becoming a doctor very difficult for you? Is it very rewarding to know that you are a doctor?
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illusenjester said:
Ugh but that's the problem, I don't know. Is there any programs for high school students who could be apprentices or like junior assistance to psychiatrists or doctors? By the way, are dentists considered doctors? Off-topic, I know it's just been bugging me and I need to know.
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Very few people know at this stage of the game, that's why there are so few of those 6-year programs.
(I personally think going to a 4-year college first is GREAT [even if you do suspect you want to go to med school]. There is just more time for you to explore other interests and become a more well-rounded person. [And to be really sure about your decision to go to med school.]) 😉

(And for some of us, like myself & OPD - we don't even know yet at that stage. You can ALWAYS go back to med school, even way later.)
(I talked about the "premed" advisor at my schoool. I know about her because I had friends [other biology majors] who were "premed" at the time, but I myself wasn't premed - just a "plain" old biology major.)

To get experience, I would look for some volunteer opportunities - such as being a candystriper, or finding a doctor who would let you "shadow" them occasionally. Your high school counselor might have some ideas of people in your area to contact to set up something like this.

Dental school is a completely different thing from medical school. (dentistry is not one of the "specialties" that someone with an M.D. might go into.) It is it's own separate profession. (But, dentists do get to put the title "Dr." in front of their name. Their doctoral degree is usually "D.D.S.", it is not "M.D.")
 
Holy cow, you guys should read through the comments on that site. Paranoia and delusions out the yin-yang. Let me post a few excerpts...

I've been researching bipolar disorder because I think my son got it from taking antibiotics for chronic ear infections from when he was a baby. He then became addicted to sugar, showing extreme bipolar symptoms, all before he was 7-years-old. He even had athletes feet before 7, which is proof he had systemic candida that went to his brain.

That was before the internet, and I thought doctors were right up there next to God, we couldn't get enough antibiotics to kill all the bad bugs, and sugar was vitamin S.

My son is a man now and still in denial and living in pain somewhere, but I'm not giving up hope. Thank God for the internet! (But our laptop's may be killing us!)
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I'd first try the strict candida diet with strong prescriiption anti-fungals. Candida is a fungus that can cause schizophrenia and bipolar disorder when it becomes systemic, and they're figuring out anti-psychotic drugs kill parasites that may cause mental illness.
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If you have tried just about everything I would suggest the next step would be to have him go to a pastor that is able to remove demon/spirit possession.

Some foster children are also secretly used in government experiments. Since a magnet can distrupt electronic equipment and devices. I would suggest using a magnet pulser around his body to render any such devices useless.
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And of course, one of the comments is by a fellow "mentoring" a young man with schizophrenia (he has "liberated" him from all the medications of course) and he goes to post you tube videos of what must be just about the entire scientology video series on how psychiatry is the primary source of all evil in the world. I feel sorry for the poor guy this fellow is mentoring, now in addition to his psychosis he has the money-grubbing soul suckers of scientology to twist what is left.
 
illusenjester said:
Ugh but that's the problem, I don't know. Is there any programs for high school students who could be apprentices or like junior assistance to psychiatrists or doctors? By the way, are dentists considered doctors? Off-topic, I know it's just been bugging me and I need to know.
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Many physicians are happy to have aspiring docs shadow them, either once or over a period of time. Shadowing a psychiatrist specifically would be problematic, as confidentiality issues and patient discomfort far outweigh the value in your shadowing.

Astrophysicists and theologians are doctors. Chiropractors are doctors. Dentists are doctors. Ph.D level psychologists are doctors. Most pharmacists now are doctors. But none of these are physicians. Blame our grandparents and their priors for misusing the term doctor. The level of our degree has little to do with our societal function.
 
whopper said:
We often base diagnosis on clusters of symptoms which several medical professions do because they too are in a state where labs tests cannot yet diagnose their disorders. E.g. Still's disease-a disease that affects the kidneys? Would CCHR, Szasz or the Church of Scientology then keep consistent with their logic & deny the existence of Still's disease?
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Are you referring to Bright's Disease ?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bright's_disease

Still's disease is a type of arthritis, and is not, to my knowledge, associated with renal disease. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Still's_disease
 
Therapist4Chnge said:
:laugh:

The term "Doctor" was started in academia, not medicine. Using the term physician makes things more clear in that regard.
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Until you see the term "Chiropractor Physician" and "Naturopathic Physician" outside someone's door and then you try not to get mad at this misleading of public.:annoyed:
 
illusenjester said:
:nod: Well thank you for sharing, I've a small question though. Was the journey to becoming a doctor very difficult for you? Is it very rewarding to know that you are a doctor?
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To quote Graham Nash:
"I am older now
I have more than what I wanted
But I wish that I had started
Long before I did
And there's so much time to make up
Everywhere you turn
Time we have wasted on the way..." 🙂

Anyhow, I'm very happy where I am now. Med school itself was not that difficult, but I had a few detours that complicated things...
 
Wise words...
Med School not difficult? You're like the first person I've ever heard saying that, everyone's always raising hell about how difficult med school is.
You are a psychiatrist though, right?
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illusenjester said:
Wise words...
Med School not difficult? You're like the first person I've ever heard saying that, everyone's always raising hell about how difficult med school is.
You are a psychiatrist though, right?
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I also did a PhD (hence the "time we have wasted on the way") and I found the lack of structure in grad school maddening. I've always been a really good multiple choice test-taker, though...😎
 
I also have this video, and it is targeting normal, average people who are susceptible to logical fallacies. This antipsychiatry vid is crammed with logics like, "since psychiatrists have done bad things, like having sex with patients, psychiatry is not a science/bad/awful." Since Psychiatrists have commited atrocities, psychiatry itself must be flawed. Some psychiatrists have a problem, defining ADHD, that is why it is "bad" to have kids take adderall, etc.

I have also seen antipsychiatric arguments that also appeals to association. Attacking the morals of diagnosing people with diseases, pointing out the stigmatizing effect, supposedly disproves the validity itself of the diagnosis, and so on.

Face it, we are humans, and we are manipulated by our emotions. I am, scientologists are, and you are as well. If I started a rant against labelling behavior as disease, based on dimensional criteria, a lot of you would get involved in a semantic flamewar. If i claimed that a socially successful antisocial person wasn't mentally ill, as there were no disadvantages to his OWN life, based on parameters such as reproductive ability and income, a lot of you would go bananas and emotionally deduce that I had to be wrong, long before you have actually managed to find a counter-argument.

But you probably already know that, as you are psychiatrists, and psychiatrists are bloody geniuses. I am only a regular guy who is attempting to become what was described here earlier as a "plumber."
 
in terms of the absence of definitive lab tests, you could also say the same thing about neurology:

ALS-clinical diagnosis
Parkinson's disease-clinical diagnosis
Huntington's disease-clinical diagnosis
migraine headache, tension headache, cluster headache-clincial diagnosis
Creutzfeldt-Jakob/prion diseases-clinical diagnosis (you can check a CSF 14-3-3 protein level, but it's not very sensitive)
Alzheimer's disease-clinical diagnosis
Pick's disease-clinical diagnosis

and that's just off the top of my head. clearly, there's A LOT we don't know about the brain! i hate these scientologist a-holes.
 
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josehernandez94 said:
in terms of the absence of definitive lab tests, you could also say the same thing about neurology:

ALS-clinical diagnosis
Parkinson's disease-clinical diagnosis
Huntington's disease-clinical diagnosis
migraine headache, tension headache, cluster headache-clincial diagnosis
Creutzfeldt-Jakob/prion diseases-clinical diagnosis
Alzheimer's disease-clinical diagnosis
Pick's disease-clinical diagnosis

and that's just off the top of my head. clearly, there's A LOT we don't know about the brain! i hate these scientologist a-holes.
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Although most of these diseases don't have blood tests (I think you can check trinucleotide repeats with Hunington's), advanced cases of most can be pathologically confirmed by brain biopsy/autopsy, with the exception of the headache syndromes.

Don't try to compare Psychiatry with Internal Medicine or Neurology.
 
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long thread i happened to stumble upon......i went to visit a place like or maybe it was CCHR in Los Angeles 3 years ago. I saw the whole video and exhibit. It seemed like propaganda and it seemed to use shock value. I think Tom Cruise and Scientology have some good people with good intentions. And i think Psychiatry was out of line in certain instances. I dont have much sympathy for MD's who spend 5 mintues with a patient and prescribe some Xanax or Zoloft. I do appreciate the neuropsychs who spend 60 minutes talking to patients. I think Scientology tries to explain how each person's mind works and how to cope and handle life's curveballs. Zoloft is not the answer for that in the vast majority of patients. There is also something to be said for money driving all of this....psychiatry, Scientology, Catholocism.....all of it. What else is new. If you can live a better life from reading the Bible or reading LRH's Dianetics, i dont see anything wrong with it. But i think the Church has a much more checkered past than Scientology does.

If you hate Scientology or anyone for that matter, it says alot about you...not them.

my 2 cents
 
Doctodd said:
I think Tom Cruise and Scientology have some good people with good intentions.
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...who are poorly informed.

I was up in Tallahassee a few years ago (2005?) lobbying against a Scientologoly-backed bill that not only would have made it harder for professionals (psychologists and psychiatrists) to do their jobs, but also make it harder for people in need to receive services that would ultimately help them.

In between sessions I inadvertently got stuck with Kirstie Alley and Kelly Preston (both Scientologists who were at the capital to lobby on the bill's behalf) in the bowels of the capital building because of room changes, a malfunctioning elevator, etc. We talked a bit about the issues and while they were very passionate about their beliefs, they were very misinformed....as their "research" and "evidence" was poorly supported. I still remember their "Expert" who was an aging physician (former psychiatrist I think) who distorted and misrepresented so many basic things that it was hard to believe that he understood what the professionals involved actually did. I don't question the supporter's passion or beliefs, but I question the misinformation that they were fed, in addition to the lack of peer-reviewed empirically supported research. It is scary the kind of platform people can get when combining some fame and sensationalized headlines.
 
Mike-you're right about the Still's disease & rheumatology--brain fart. I said nephrology.

While labs of course do help, it still is a clinical diagnosis. Labs can help, though of course labs can help too in psychiatry.

Although most of these diseases don't have blood tests (I think you can check trinucleotide repeats with Hunington's), advanced cases of most can be pathologically confirmed by brain biopsy/autopsy, with the exception of the headache syndromes.

Don't try to compare Psychiatry with Internal Medicine or Neurology.
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Although you weren't responding to a post I made, it was someone else, I agree with the logic.

While IM & Neurology & Psychiatry are different fields, we are all physicians practicing medicine.

Those disorders were pointed out because an erroneous point of the CCHR video is that psychiatry does not conventionally use labs, & they erroneously imply that all of the other fields of medicine do to the point where they do not use clinical diagnosis. They also imply that any field of medicine that doesn't have a definitive test is practicing bogus medicine.

Hmm--drug induced psychosis? order a UDS
Depression 2ndary to hypothyroidism? order a thyroid panel
Hepatic Encephalopathy: order a serum ammonia test
Sleep Disorders: Sleep EEGs
Dementias--well Neurology handles them, but so does psychiatry
Depression 2ndary to Hypercalcemia? Order a serum calcium & PTH panel
panic attacks? Rule out pheochromocytoma
Depakote, Lithium, Clozaril, Carbamazepine, among several others-require lab testing to monitor for safety but also for medication to stay within therapeutic levels.

I think Scientology tries to explain how each person's mind works and how to cope and handle life's curveballs.
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Check out the Time Magazine article. Psychiatry, like any field of medicine of course has examples of doctors who didn't do the right thing. Of course all religions such as Catholicism have their history of errors. However, if you investigate Scientology, that organization has organized a multimillion dollar campaign against all of psychiatry, and it not just trying to expose bad psychiatrists-but to defame & as its leader David Miscavige says "obliterate" the entire field. Its willing to use misinformation to achieve that end.

Don't believe me?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfu7Sr50N7U

If any organization wanted to work to making sure medicine is being practiced properly, fine. An organization like NAMI does that.
http://www.nami.org
Scientology isn't interested in that. If Scientology were simply advocating reducing the use of meds (appropriately) & trying to get rid of bad psychiatrists, I'd be with them.

By the way, myself & several of the psychiatrist on this forum every once in awhile get into a rant about how managed care has pushed meds & reduced incentives for psychotherapy.
 
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what the hell would tom cruise do if suddenly every mentally ill person in america was taken off their meds and released from the hospitals and showed up on his doorstep for his magic cure?
 
Hi illusenjester. It is very nice to have plans and dreams for becoming a physician while in high school. My dreams started early too, at primary school. I would wait before deciding on specialty. Give yourself opportunity to fall in love with every rotation you have in med school. That way you will learn every field with passion, and that makes you a better doctor no matter what specialty you choose later.

In my case, I witnessed the positive change in my patients quality of life when I was treating them as a family practice resident. That was even more powerful than witnessing friends getting better with help of psychiatrist when going through though times in life. Psych is not all about extreme cases. Regular people whom you see on daily interactions may be under care of psychiatrists and gain positive results. Yes, that is a fact we can not save every body, in physical or mental health. If you be in a position to eliminate suffering or improve quality of life of ONE person over your whole carrier, consider your mission accomplished.

Med school is hard and fun. My best time of life was while in med school. The journey itself was fun. Lots of study. You should love sitting and reading.

Good luck:luck:
 
Spiderwoman said:
Hi illusenjester. It is very nice to have plans and dreams for becoming a physician while in high school. My dreams started early too, at primary school. I would wait before deciding on specialty. Give yourself opportunity to fall in love with every rotation you have in med school. That way you will learn every field with passion, and that makes you a better doctor no matter what specialty you choose later.

In my case, I witnessed the positive change in my patients quality of life when I was treating them as a family practice resident. That was even more powerful than witnessing friends getting better with help of psychiatrist when going through though times in life. Psych is not all about extreme cases. Regular people whom you see on daily interactions may be under care of psychiatrists and gain positive results. Yes, that is a fact we can not save every body, in physical or mental health. If you be in a position to eliminate suffering or improve quality of life of ONE person over your whole carrier, consider your mission accomplished.
Med school is hard and fun. My best time of life was while in med school. The journey itself was fun. Lots of study. You should love sitting and reading.

Good luck:luck:
Click to expand...

Good post but I am not particularly fond of this cliché. 😱
 
Whoa, thank you Spiderwoman. Am I crazy for wanting to go to medical school even after reading a few of this guys experience in all 4 years? You and OldDoc are the only two people I've ever heard positively from your experiences in medical school, I'm not sure how old you are either but it could be a generation difference that seperates how difficult medical school is from then 'till now. I dunno lol, I can't believe I'm even thinking about this when I have such a long way to go. :laugh:
x0x0
 
Hmm...someone on that thread posted an article, wanted to see what you guys think about it.
More medical system bashing?
:/
x0x0
 
I haven't double checked those numbers but there are problems with the medical system. No system is perfect.

For example, IMHO, I do believe that antibiotics are over prescribed by some doctors. They're over used--heck cattle is fed tetracycline which stays in their bodies when we eat them.

Someone has a cough-some doctors just jump on the antibiotic wagon, without taking the attempt to see the symptoms fit a viral etiology vs a bacterial etiology.

Same can be said of any field including our own-psychiatry. I've seen some doctors that IMHO over prescribed antidepressants. Does that make me think the entire field is bogus? No. There are some people who needed them. You got to judge the entire system objectively & not focus in on only the bad, presented by one side with an agenda.

There's good & bad in every field. There's plenty of doctors that do not over-prescribe antibiotics. There's good cops, bad cops, good priests, bad priests.

The goal then should be to improve the system, not do something irrational because of a problem, only making it worse. The problem here IMHO is some clinicians jump the gun & give a prescription without taking the proper time to dx & educate the patient.

Don't let something like this jade or dishearten you. If anything its only more reason why we need good people going into healthcare.
 
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