Psychiatry Prestige

[Horners]

I don't really get sensitive about the whole IMG discussion that comes up here and there, but I find this pretty offensive. I don't think you need to degrade a whole class of physicians just because they did not go to medschool in the US.

I think you missed my point entirely. I wasn’t degrading them. IMG, USMD, DO... it all doesn’t matter to me. If you’re competent, hard working and willing to learn from mistakes, I respect you.

Prestige, big names, titles don’t compare to that.

Also you can acknowledge a hierarchy exists without agreeing to it. People view IMGs as less “prestigious” candidates, similarly some people view psychiatrists as less “prestigious” doctors. I’m saying you should do what you want to do according to your priorities, because finding fulfillment in other people’s acceptance will leave you ultimately unhappy.


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[SmallBird]

I have a really good friend with excellent board scores interviewing at top EM programs. One of his genuine concerns is that EM docs are seen as dumb by everyone else in the hospital and that he feels like PAs/NPs do his job in the ED.

I told him that he should live his life in a way where he doesn’t depend on other people’s approval for fulfillment because even if you’re a Harvard orthopedic surgeon, there’s always the IMG IM doc who you end up consulting to manage your patients’ diabetes.

Does prestige matter to you personally? And honestly should it ever? I don’t understand the value of it in actual daily life.


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I don’t understand the example at all. You shouldn’t care about approval because even if you get into a competitive specialty and work at a good hospital you may still need advice from a foreign doctor? The example seems offensive to me as others have pointed out.

 

[Old&InTheWay]

I don’t understand the example at all. You shouldn’t care about approval because even if you get into a competitive specialty and work at a good hospital you may still need advice from a foreign doctor? The example seems offensive to me as others have pointed out.

I think you are missing the point. It doesn't have to be a foreign doctor, it could be a woman doctor, or a dentist. Point is, there's always going to be some lesser doctor to steal your glory, so there's no point in pursuing prestige.


Edit: guess I need to explain what ought to be obvious. Either I am the most tone deaf and bigoted person on earth or I am being facetious. Hint: it’s the latter.

 

[splik]

I think you are missing the point. It doesn't have to be a foreign doctor, it could be a woman doctor, or a dentist. Point is, there's always going to be some lesser doctor to steal your glory, so there's no point in pursuing prestige.

so women are "lesser doctors" now? keep digging

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

I think you are missing the point. It doesn't have to be a foreign doctor, it could be a woman doctor, or a dentist. Point is, there's always going to be some lesser doctor to steal your glory, so there's no point in pursuing prestige.

Definitely not prestigious to get advice from a woman doctor, amirite bros?

 

[deleted736562]

It usually kinda annoys me when we are advised to wear white coats on CL so we are taken seriously as physicians. I make it a point not to; it just seems like an inferiority complex in our specialty that is constantly being reinforced. The constant pandering to be treated as "real doctors" is kinda silly. Then again my own counter-reaction always has been not to give a s*it about 'prestige'.

 

[Shufflin]

once you exit the hallowed halls of training, you'll be an appreciated desired commodity in the real world. so don't sweat it.

 

[mymembernames]

once you exit the hallowed halls of training, you'll be an appreciated desired commodity in the real world. so don't sweat it.

Couple folks out in the real world have told me this too


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[Shufflin]

Couple folks out in the real world have told me this too


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IM doctors are asking me for help with their patients believe it or not where i work. they're not comfortable dealing with psychosis, depression, mania, dual diagnosis, even severe anxiety. it's increased in my mind our prestige. we serve a critical cog in the medical multidisciplinary wheel. don't forget that.

 

[billybb]

They didn't degrade anyone, they are making a comparison between the most prestigious and least prestigious doctors, saying that we all work together regardless and prestige doesn't matter at all. Horners even goes on to say "I don't understand the value of (prestige) in daily life." Implying that Horners has absolutely no problem with IMGs. You seem to be actively trying to be offended.

Ok. Would anyone dare say “Even if you’re a Harvard Orthopedic Surgeon, there’s always a black IM doc you’ll end up consulting” ?
As I said, I don’t easily get offended by people bashing IMGs. I’m stunned by your and OPs ignorance.

 

[Horners]

I don’t understand the example at all. You shouldn’t care about approval because even if you get into a competitive specialty and work at a good hospital you may still need advice from a foreign doctor? The example seems offensive to me as others have pointed out.

First of all, an IMG is not a foreigner, they are American students who went to the Caribbean. If for one second you are insinuating that I am making a racially-charged comment, f*ck you. You are being purposefully manipulative with language. You are either truly ignorant or you are just trying to be offended.


And you know what, I’m going to just take my own advice. I don’t need your acceptance or the other guys’ acceptance. Because I know what I said and anyone with the ability to read in context and a small amount of reading comprehension can understand what I said. Have a good day.

 

[Horners]

Ok. Would anyone dare say “Even if you’re a Harvard Orthopedic Surgeon, there’s always a black IM doc you’ll end up consulting” ?
As I said, I don’t easily get offended by people bashing IMGs. I’m stunned by your and OPs ignorance.

Why are you guys assuming that it was a racial comment?!?!? Let me make it clear, it WAS NOT. Jesus Christ... you have to be kidding me.

IMG = American student who went to Caribbean. (Less prestigious)
FMG = Foreign person who went to medical school in their home country and is applying for residency here. (Actually somewhat more prestigious if you ask me because they studied medicine in a different language, learned English, took boards and matched in the US.)


This is why you guys were getting offended? Jesus... please spare me the benefit of the doubt at least.


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[SmallBird]

Why are you guys assuming that it was a racial comment?!?!? Let me make it clear, it WAS NOT. Jesus Christ... you have to be kidding me.

IMG = American student who went to Caribbean. (Less prestigious)
FMG = Foreign person who went to medical school in their home country and is applying for residency here. (Actually somewhat more prestigious if you ask me because they studied medicine in a different language, learned English, took boards and matched in the US.)


This is why you guys were getting offended? Jesus... please spare me the benefit of the doubt at least.


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Actually that terminology is not commonly used. IMG is now the phrase used almost universally to capture both groups.

 

[Horners]

Actually that terminology is not commonly used. IMG is now the phrase used almost universally to capture both groups.

I can understand why you read it with a racial tone now. But I hope you also understand what I meant.

Never thought I’d see the day where I (an immigrant from another country) would have to defend myself from accusations of being racist towards foreigners.


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[AD04]

Ok. Would anyone dare say “Even if you’re a Harvard Orthopedic Surgeon, there’s always a black IM doc you’ll end up consulting” ?
As I said, I don’t easily get offended by people bashing IMGs. I’m stunned by your and OPs ignorance.

So we mentioned women. We mentioned blacks. It ain't a safe space unless we also include the outrage against LGBTs and Muslims.

 

[WisNeuro]

So we mentioned women. We mentioned blacks. It ain't a safe space unless we also include the outrage against LGBTs and Muslims.

I, for one, would like to see Southpaws barred from positions in healthcare. They should be drowned in burlap sacks.

 

[VeryOldSpice]

Ok. Would anyone dare say “Even if you’re a Harvard Orthopedic Surgeon, there’s always a black IM doc you’ll end up consulting” ?
As I said, I don’t easily get offended by people bashing IMGs. I’m stunned by your and OPs ignorance.

I'm stunned that you're trying to straw man my argument and call me ignorant.

First, you have to acknowledge that there are different levels of prestige in medicine. Yes, a Harvard ortho doc does have more prestige than an IMG IM doc, whether that hurts your feelings does not have any bearing on the validity of the statement. There is no question the Harvard doc got higher test scores throughout their life, hence why they are at Harvard. The Harvard doc likely got more rigorous training as a result of going to Harvard, was probably exposed to the best of the best attendings, etc. If you were looking up a doctor for your mother to go see, likely you would be comforted if you saw that the doc you were interested in taking her to graduated from a Harvard/Stanford/Yale etc.

Now, does that mean the Harvard doctor is necessarily happier? NO.

Does it mean the Harvard doctor is a necessarily a better doctor? NO.

Does prestige make you happy? Not necessarily.

What you did was take a totally reasonable argument by Horners about prestige not mattering, look straight past their intentions and try to pillory Horners for the example they used. This is the problem with the far-left, far-right, and the current state of "call out culture." You are not trying to have a reasonable, logic driven argument, you just want to point out perceived bigotry in hopes that other people will give you a bunch of likes on your posts. Actions like this are directly eroding free speech. When you can't have a reason based discussion rooted in good intentions, that's bad for everybody.

 

[TexasPhysician]

I think the argument for and against perceived prestige has been thoroughly discussed. Locking this thread as the discussion is no longer meaningful.