Psychiatry Program Prestige

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fearisthemindkiller

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Hey All,

I'm getting interviews for psych residencies at a range of places, including MGH, Columbia, Penn, UCSF, Cornell. I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts about the importance of a fancy residency name. is it worth it to live in Boston for 4 years just to say I did my residency at MGH? (not that they've offered me a spot lol). My wife and I also lived in NYC for a long time and want to possibly go back, but I've heard malignant things about NYC psych programs. Anyone know if this is a real thing, esp at places like Columbia, NYU, Cornell? Thanks all 🙌
 
lol Im only a first year but Ive heard nothing but bad things at NYC residencies. You get prestige but not worth to me at the current moment. I remember reading about how a program was bragging about q3 call instead of q2 call because q2 call seemed to be the norm... Things like that

I would also imagine just having MGH as any part of your training would give you an advantage in any job market.
 
I went to an internationally recognized “name-brand” residency program. What I will say is that the reason you would want to go to one of these places is the training, not the name recognition. The name itself can be helpful but it really depends on how you’re intending to practice.

In academia, people do recognize the names of the better residency programs and it probably helps a bit with hiring. That being said, a fairly large number of programs would get you to the same place in this respect. Academic positions often don’t pay as well, and they’re kind of self-selecting more than anything. I’ve known people from pretty middle-of-the-road residencies who have gotten jobs at MGH and people from my program who have taken jobs at more middle-of-the-road places. Part of the issue is that places with very big names (I think MGH and Hopkins might be some of the biggest offenders here but I think that a similar thing probably goes on at many of the places you listed) pay their attendings terribly compared to basically every other institution. So, if you’re going to work at one of these places, the name better be worth a lot to you (as in, almost $100k per year)

The two places I can think of where the name recognition of your residency can actually matter are forensics and certain forms of cash-pay private practice in more saturated markets. But even here, it’s not like anybody is going to quibble about one program vs another past a certain point. In these situations, you’re taking about lawyers, judges, and the lay public. They’re not doctors, and they’re certainly not psychiatrists. They have no idea what goes into making a residency program good. Most of these people don’t even know what MGH is, or how it’s different from BWH or BIDMC. All they will hear is “Harvard,” “Columbia,” “Hopkins,” “UCLA,””Duke,” “NYU,” or whatever. Distinctions don’t really matter at that point and all people are going to see is that you trained at what they perceive to be a top academic institution. That being said, if you’re going through voir dire to testify in a legal case, it will definitely be perceived differently if you trained at an academic place with a recognizable name versus if you trained at a community place that nobody has heard of.

As I said, if you’re trying to do a cash pay private practice in a saturated area, what I just said probably also applies. Having said that, most places in the U.S. are not saturated with psychiatrists. If you’re the only psychiatrist for miles, or there are a few psychiatrists but most of them are full and you’re the only one taking patients, you’ll probably wind up getting cash pay patients no matter where you trained. If you’re planning to take insurance, where you trained basically does not matter at all because you’ll fill either way.
 
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I’m at a name brand place. I think the brand can be useful once I leave, however im mostly just here for the training. Coming here I get to learn Eating Disorders from an expert in EDs. I learn TMS, ECT from experts in the field. On consults, I train with fellowship trained attendings who are active in psychosomatics. I am exposed to Psycho-oncology with a psychooncologist, etc. To me, that is the main reason why there is an advantage to coming to *insert name brand here* is that you have more of a likelihood of learning X from an expert. At nonacademic places with less branding, I think it would be less likely for an institution to have the throughput in subspecialties like this to hire an expert to just do mostly that one thing.

I am sure there are many excellent teachers, experts, at non name brand settings who do excellent work. However, the chance of having an expert at hand in the many different practice settings / niches in psychiatry would likely be pretty low if outside if academia at least. Im sure many solid academic programs without as much branding still do a good job in the above as long as their department/head has been strategic with their recruitment, and they have a large enough catchment area / pop size.

These are just my opinions
 
sloop said:
I went to an internationally recognized “name-brand” residency program. What I will say is that the reason you would want to go to one of these places is the training, not the name recognition. The name itself can be helpful but it really depends on how you’re intending to practice.
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so true, the training is what matters the most.
 
Having a prestigious name at any stage in your CV helps. Research experience at top places helps. Training at top places definitely helps.
Prestige is not determined solely by US News rankings. It is also based off of the word on the street about certain institutions. What faculty teaches there? is the program malignant? What kind of residents or fellows graduate from there? research? patient advocacy? APA fellowships etc. Is the institution name recognizable to the layman? Can employers tout you as a "fill in the name" trained doctor?

This has been my experience.
 
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Hzreio said:
lol Im only a first year but Ive heard nothing but bad things at NYC residencies. You get prestige but not worth to me at the current moment. I remember reading about how a program was bragging about q3 call instead of q2 call because q2 call seemed to be the norm... Things like that

I would also imagine just having MGH as any part of your training would give you an advantage in any job market.
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I don't think you can offer anything of value to this post as an M1, and it shows in your first sentence( you heard, from who?)....go back to the books and lay off the forums.
 
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Browns99 said:
I don't think you can offer anything of value to this post as an M1, and it shows in your first sentence( you heard, from who?)....go back to the books and lay off the forums.
Click to expand...

That poster isn't wrong and I'm an attending. NYC programs have a malignant reputation and I would avoid unless you literally have no other option.
 
fearisthemindkiller said:
Hey All,

I'm getting interviews for psych residencies at a range of places, including MGH, Columbia, Penn, UCSF, Cornell. I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts about the importance of a fancy residency name. is it worth it to live in Boston for 4 years just to say I did my residency at MGH? (not that they've offered me a spot lol). My wife and I also lived in NYC for a long time and want to possibly go back, but I've heard malignant things about NYC psych programs. Anyone know if this is a real thing, esp at places like Columbia, NYU, Cornell? Thanks all 🙌
Click to expand...
Rather than making your life decisions based on what might look the best to other people, just do your reading on each place, make visits if you need to, and choose.
 
Phloston said:
Yes. Make your life decisions based on others' opinions. Did you have a contribution you wanted to make to this thread. Or are you here to ad hominem?
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Ok first of all, why are you or anyone else on SDN if you don't care about the opinion of others and no one should care about yours?

Second, you seem to have lost the point of the thread and with it, you lost your own comment which is what I was responding to.

The point of the thread was:
"I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts about the importance of a fancy residency name."

To which you replied:
"Rather than making your life decisions based on what might look the best to other people, just do your reading on each place, make visits if you need to, and choose."

This does not address the OP's question nor is it the proper way to go for someone who is clearly worried about prestige. The advice with actual substance that was given to him was good. There are valid reasons to want to shoot for prestige and if that's what he's going for, then the advice given by others with actual substance is good advice that shouldn't be dismissed.
 
Mass Effect said:
Ok first of all, why are you or anyone else on SDN if you don't care about the opinion of others and no one should care about yours?

Second, you seem to have lost the point of the thread and with it, you lost your own comment which is what I was responding to.

The point of the thread was:
"I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts about the importance of a fancy residency name."

To which you replied:
"Rather than making your life decisions based on what might look the best to other people, just do your reading on each place, make visits if you need to, and choose."

This does not address the OP's question nor is it the proper way to go for someone who is clearly worried about prestige. The advice with actual substance that was given to him was good. There are valid reasons to want to shoot for prestige and if that's what he's going for, then the advice given by others with actual substance is good advice that shouldn't be dismissed.
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You put more effort into ad hominem than you do in actually addressing the OP here. Just look at the length of your posts. Maybe that reflects what your true intent is here on the forum.
 
Most training programs are going to do a perfectly fine job of giving you the training to be a competent, if not outstanding, psychiatrist. I have yet to interact with anyone that went to a "prestigious" institution for training and been bamboozled by their incredible knowledge it clinical acumen.

That said, I do think that going to a "prestigious" program can be helpful depending on what you want to do and where you want to practice. If you plan to pursue an academic career, then, in general, I think having a training pedigree can be helpful. It's by no means necessary to have a successful academic career, but many people care about these things, and the research and networking opportunities available at "prestigious" institutions may serve you well. The other circumstance is, like others said, working in a private practice setting in a saturated market where your training credentials might actually have some cache with patients.

Outside of those things, I don't think anyone is going to care and I doubt training at a "prestigious" program is likely to be helpful. I'm painting with broad strokes, but that's been my experience.
 
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