Psychiatry where you get to practice other kinds of medicine

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I am an M1. I am very interested in psychiatry, and I did a fair amount of research in it during undergrad. I majored in history, where I focused on this my senior year. There are lots of seriously mentally ill people in my family, both extended and close, and since childhood I have been both fascinated and had daily experience of it. So, not only am I intellectually interested, but I do have personal and compassionate reasons for being preoccupied with it. I waffled about it, but I have often wanted to pursue it as a specialty.

But! I like the rest of medicine, and would hate to give it up to practice psychiatry. I come to you, O experts, to ask what kind of practice environments are amenable to treating physical and also psychiatric illness. What practice environments, if any, allow this? I have heard about inpatient psychiatry, but have heard mixed things. I know one can moonlight, but I would ideally like both to be part of my main practice.

Is this a pipe-dream? The other specialty I am interested in is EM, because it is so broad.

I know I am young and early in my career, but I would appreciate any advice you guys can offer.

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But, after residency, are there environments where you actually get to do both?

You can have your own outpt PP where you see patients for both psychiatric and medical issues. Outside of this it's relatively difficult to do both, especially on the inpt side as patients will not get admitted to an inpatient psych unit if they have a current medical issue that needs to be addressed on a medical unit. EM and psych are nearly mutually exclusive in terms of actual practice. We work with each other frequently in the academic setting, but in terms of actual clinical practice there is very little overlap with EM as a psychiatrist (outside of substance use).
 
There are also combined family med/psych residencies. And you would obviously be able to take care of your primary care patients’ mental health needs.
 
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I wouldn’t stress about this as a first year, just do well so you can have choices for specialty when it is time. As far as practicing psychiatry where you have to use a lot of general medical care, depending on the hospital set up inpatient psychiatrists may do a ton of general medical care or they may do none at all. On the otherside a decent PCP is going to be very comfortable managing first line options for MDD and anxiety. Also in recent years more and more PCP are comfortable treating opioid use disorders with suboxone. My personal bias is it’s better to find a niche within one specialty than spreading yourself thin between two.
 
Consult-liaison psychiatry.
as a c-/l psychiatrist, it drives me nuts when everyone suggests consults for people who want to do physical medicine. Consults is absolutely the worst possible field of psychiatry if you want to be managing people's medical problems because you are going to have to see everyone else doing that and you have the least opportunity to manage patient's medical problems compared with other areas of psychiatry. you are being explicitly consulted to address psychological aspects of care or answer psychiatric, ethical or medico-legal questions, and not medical ones. We are dealing with demoralization, somatization, functional neurological symptoms, adjustment reactions, grief, acute stress disorders, personality disorders, poor coping, poor adherence, behavior interfering with care, depression and anxiety in the medical setting, with lots of delirium and dementia thrown in for good measure.

inpatient, addictions, geriatrics, and community mental health all provide much more scope and opportunity to be managing medical problems depending on the set up. but there are inpatient units where psychiatrists do the admission physicals (at others it's an NP or internist), and routinely manage bread and butter medical issues that come up on the ward. In state hospital systems (even though there are often internists and specialists), psychiatrists often have to take a major role in managing medical problems. inpatient geropsych units have patients with lots of comorbidities which you will typically be co-managing with a geriatrician. In some community mental health settings, the psychiatrist may be the only physician the patient ever sees, and some spaces are set up where the psychiatrist is managing basic things likes hypertension, diabetes, cholesterol, hypothyroidism etc etc. there is a lot of medicine overlay in addictions and geriatrics (and eating disorders too, but this is a niche area, and typically an adolescent medicine doc is managing alot of the "medical stuff")

Listen OP, you are a first yr med student so its great you are interested in practicing medicine and you're gonna spend the next 5 years mastering the basics of the clinical skills necessary for the practice of medicine. It is normal for those destined for psychiatry, having invested so much to get those hard-one medical skills, and being completely unskilled in the dark arts of psychiatry, but fear losing that identity and not using those skills. But psychiatry is a branch of medicine and those skills and that knowledge you gain will provide a basic foundation you will use everyday in managing psychiatric problems, recognizing when a neurological or other medical issue is causing a patient's symptoms, monitoring labs and side-effects from medications, treating psychiatric issues in patients with heart/liver/kidney disease and pregnancy and breastfeeding, treating patients with somatoform disorders, factitious disorders and other abnormal illness behaviors, and the art of observation which forms the basis for our physical exam - the mental state exam. In psychiatry you will eventually learn a new set of skills and jedi mind tricks which build on those foundational skills in med school and mini-internship as well as undoing the harmful parts of medical training that rob you of empathy, humanity, and separate you from patients. While you can certainly try to be a one-stop shop for patients and manage all of their problems, you would have do a substandard job of it. We only have so much time to spend with patients, and the more time you spend treating patient's other medical issues, the less time to have to focus on the issues that bring them to see you in the first place.
 
Almost every field of medicine will result in missing out on other aspects of medicine. EM docs are not managing long-term issues. FM has limited knowledge on specialty issues. Peds focuses on <18. Derm is going to lose most knowledge beyond the skin. Ortho finds broken bones and fixes them.

Sure these are generalizations, but it’s mostly the truth. You can’t be an expert at everything.

Psych/FM combined is probably the closest you can get. Most of these physicians quit FM because psych earns more money. If money isn’t an issue, do whatever you enjoy.
 
Other options inckude doing a sleep or brain injury medicine fellowships. With sleep you learn about sleep studies and setting Cpaps. With a BIM fellowship you learn how to treat the neuro comorbidities of TBI along with pmr. Also there are some neuropsychiatry fellowships or do the combined neuro/psych program.
 
as a c-/l psychiatrist, it drives me nuts when everyone suggests consults for people who want to do physical medicine. Consults is absolutely the worst possible field of psychiatry if you want to be managing people's medical problems because you are going to have to see everyone else doing that and you have the least opportunity to manage patient's medical problems compared with other areas of psychiatry. you are being explicitly consulted to address psychological aspects of care or answer psychiatric, ethical or medico-legal questions, and not medical ones. We are dealing with demoralization, somatization, functional neurological symptoms, adjustment reactions, grief, acute stress disorders, personality disorders, poor coping, poor adherence, behavior interfering with care, depression and anxiety in the medical setting, with lots of delirium and dementia thrown in for good measure.

inpatient, addictions, geriatrics, and community mental health all provide much more scope and opportunity to be managing medical problems depending on the set up. but there are inpatient units where psychiatrists do the admission physicals (at others it's an NP or internist), and routinely manage bread and butter medical issues that come up on the ward. In state hospital systems (even though there are often internists and specialists), psychiatrists often have to take a major role in managing medical problems. inpatient geropsych units have patients with lots of comorbidities which you will typically be co-managing with a geriatrician. In some community mental health settings, the psychiatrist may be the only physician the patient ever sees, and some spaces are set up where the psychiatrist is managing basic things likes hypertension, diabetes, cholesterol, hypothyroidism etc etc. there is a lot of medicine overlay in addictions and geriatrics (and eating disorders too, but this is a niche area, and typically an adolescent medicine doc is managing alot of the "medical stuff")

Listen OP, you are a first yr med student so its great you are interested in practicing medicine and you're gonna spend the next 5 years mastering the basics of the clinical skills necessary for the practice of medicine. It is normal for those destined for psychiatry, having invested so much to get those hard-one medical skills, and being completely unskilled in the dark arts of psychiatry, but fear losing that identity and not using those skills. But psychiatry is a branch of medicine and those skills and that knowledge you gain will provide a basic foundation you will use everyday in managing psychiatric problems, recognizing when a neurological or other medical issue is causing a patient's symptoms, monitoring labs and side-effects from medications, treating psychiatric issues in patients with heart/liver/kidney disease and pregnancy and breastfeeding, treating patients with somatoform disorders, factitious disorders and other abnormal illness behaviors, and the art of observation which forms the basis for our physical exam - the mental state exam. In psychiatry you will eventually learn a new set of skills and jedi mind tricks which build on those foundational skills in med school and mini-internship as well as undoing the harmful parts of medical training that rob you of empathy, humanity, and separate you from patients. While you can certainly try to be a one-stop shop for patients and manage all of their problems, you would have do a substandard job of it. We only have so much time to spend with patients, and the more time you spend treating patient's other medical issues, the less time to have to focus on the issues that bring them to see you in the first place.
I agree with the above. Although you dont practice physical medicine in c/l, you have a lot of exposure to it in a general hospital setting.
 
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Thank you everyone! I appreciate your insightful and helpful comments.
 
I am an M1. I am very interested in psychiatry, and I did a fair amount of research in it during undergrad. I majored in history, where I focused on this my senior year. There are lots of seriously mentally ill people in my family, both extended and close, and since childhood I have been both fascinated and had daily experience of it. So, not only am I intellectually interested, but I do have personal and compassionate reasons for being preoccupied with it. I waffled about it, but I have often wanted to pursue it as a specialty.

But! I like the rest of medicine, and would hate to give it up to practice psychiatry. I come to you, O experts, to ask what kind of practice environments are amenable to treating physical and also psychiatric illness. What practice environments, if any, allow this? I have heard about inpatient psychiatry, but have heard mixed things. I know one can moonlight, but I would ideally like both to be part of my main practice.

Is this a pipe-dream? The other specialty I am interested in is EM, because it is so broad.

I know I am young and early in my career, but I would appreciate any advice you guys can offer.

I am not an expert by any regard, but primary care provides a good mix of seeing patients with mental health issues (MDD, GAD, bipolar, personality disorders) and medical disease. Needless to say, the more complex/intense patients will be seen by psych and social services for diagnosis and day-to-day therapy.

However, you can cater your training and practice to better handle these patients and I cannot emphasize how important it is for them to have a primary care doctor who understands and enhances their psychiatric treatment.

Also commenting because of your avatar. I love Paracelsus. He is the coolest crazy man in medical history, IMHO.
 
In psychiatry you will eventually learn a new set of skills and jedi mind tricks which build on those foundational skills in med school and mini-internship as well as undoing the harmful parts of medical training that rob you of empathy, humanity, and separate you from patients.

Just summed up the best part of residency so far.

To the original question, I found it was more helpful to 1) find the people you want to be around and 2) pay attention to what the specialty in question values and therefore reinforces in you--and then ask if you want that part of you to be reinforced.

For example, I like book medicine. I like people. But on medicine wards, I become someone who secretly hopes someone dies (peacefully) overnight so that we have one patient fewer going into admitting day. I also get irritated when my cute old patient asks me to help him get dressed or find his hearing aids while I'm pre-rounding because I have half an hour to see ten more patients and can't be bothered. That kind of thing.
 
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Going to echo what split said, before going into psych I thought CL would give me more of a medicine flavor and allow me not to forget some of the bread and butter medical skills, but CL psych is a far departure from getting to manage patient's medical issues.
 
I am an M1. I am very interested in psychiatry, and I did a fair amount of research in it during undergrad. I majored in history, where I focused on this my senior year. There are lots of seriously mentally ill people in my family, both extended and close, and since childhood I have been both fascinated and had daily experience of it. So, not only am I intellectually interested, but I do have personal and compassionate reasons for being preoccupied with it. I waffled about it, but I have often wanted to pursue it as a specialty.

But! I like the rest of medicine, and would hate to give it up to practice psychiatry. I come to you, O experts, to ask what kind of practice environments are amenable to treating physical and also psychiatric illness. What practice environments, if any, allow this? I have heard about inpatient psychiatry, but have heard mixed things. I know one can moonlight, but I would ideally like both to be part of my main practice.

Is this a pipe-dream? The other specialty I am interested in is EM, because it is so broad.

I know I am young and early in my career, but I would appreciate any advice you guys can offer.
These are all very understandable thoughts to have, and I had them too. But they had almost entirely melted away by the time 3rd year was over and were gone by the time I put in my residency application. I'm now a psych intern literally counting down the shifts until I'm done with my off service time with zero regrets.

The reality of rotations and subis will answer these questions for you and I suspect render them moot. As others have said, the structure of the day, the practice environments, and the other people in your specialty will matter as much or more as intellectual content. These things you start to really see and understand only once you do clinicals.
 
These are all very understandable thoughts to have, and I had them too. But they had almost entirely melted away by the time 3rd year was over and were gone by the time I put in my residency application. I'm now a psych intern literally counting down the shifts until I'm done with my off service time with zero regrets.

The reality of rotations and subis will answer these questions for you and I suspect render them moot. As others have said, the structure of the day, the practice environments, and the other people in your specialty will matter as much or more as intellectual content. These things you start to really see and understand only once you do clinicals.
Thank you very much. I suppose I should be more modest considering how many other people have taken this path and are indeed happy with the path they have taken. I am not special!
 
I do primarily inpatient psych, and I collaborate with some NP's who do medical H and P's on psych wards. I also collaborate with a Family practice NP who does a minor medical clinic. I could easily do more internal medicine if I wanted to, but it pays much less than psychiatry
 
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