PhD/PsyD Psychological testing?

[Healthinfo104]

Why isn't psychometric/ psychological testing a legally protected practice like the practice of medicine or what not?

Someone cannot practice medicine without a liscence or training in medicine of some sorts (physician, nurse practitioner, etc) so why can anyone (like midlevel psychotherapists, psychiatrists, etc) perform psychological testing with no training?

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[MAClinician]

Why isn't psychometric/ psychological testing a legally protected practice like the practice of medicine or what not?

Someone cannot practice medicine without a liscence or training in medicine of some sorts (physician, nurse practitioner, etc) so why can anyone (like midlevel psychotherapists, psychiatrists, etc) perform psychological testing with no training?

In some states it is limited to psychologists who can conduct, score and interpret psychological testing by state regulations. Not all states do this, however.

 

[CatsFan]

You do have to have certain qualifications to purchase many psychological tests.

 

[Justanothergrad]

define what you mean by 'test' and 'testing' then I'll answer your question.

 

[Healthinfo104]

You do have to have certain qualifications to purchase many psychological tests.

Like the various assessments and psychometric tests that psychologists utilize such as iq tests, neuropsych tests, personality teats, forensic tests, etc.

 

[WisNeuro]

Like the various assessments and psychometric tests that psychologists utilize such as iq tests, neuropsych tests, personality teats, forensic tests, etc.

Yes, that's what she said, you need to meet certain qualification level to buy these tests from publishers.

 

[Healthinfo104]

Yes, that's what she said, you need to meet certain qualification level to buy these tests from publishers.

But there's no law that prevents non psychologists from attempting to get abd practice these tests? They wouldn't get arrested like a person trying to practice medicine without a medical liscence?

That's my point, why isn't it a legally protected practice like medicine.

 

[Healthinfo104]

define what you mean by 'test' and 'testing' then I'll answer your question.

Like the various assessments and psychometric tests that psychologists utilize such as iq tests, neuropsych tests,personality teats, forensic tests, etc.

 

[WisNeuro]

But there's no law that prevents non psychologists from attempting to get abd practice these tests? They wouldn't get arrested like a person trying to practice medicine without a medical liscence?

That's my point, why isn't it a legally protected practice like medicine.

Because it's harder to kill someone by half-assedly administering a WAIS.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Like the various assessments and psychometric tests that psychologists utilize such as iq tests, neuropsych tests,personality teats, forensic tests, etc.

A few reasons

1. Psych is really bad at setting professional boundaries and protecting its turf. This is why SLP folks can give IQ without any formal training or know-how.

2. Its not as flashy and newsreel worthy as medicine because you can't kill someone, as WisNeuro said, despite the fact that there are very real implications for a bad diagnosis. This makes it harder for people to get inspired that assessment training or competency matters. This makes me think I should have had a qualitative part to the training assessment survey I just did... I may have to do that in the next part of that project.

3. Purchasing those tests (which implies use of them) does require some specific training levels

 

[WisNeuro]

I mean, an SLP doing it is about the same level of suck as some of the diploma mill PsyD reports that I've seen around here. You just have to make your quality known to drown out the incompetents. I did take away all of the referrals one particularly crappy practitioner was getting from a neurologist nearby in the past few months.

 

[PsyDr]

I make a lot of money making fun of such people.

Because it's harder to kill someone by half-assedly administering a WAIS.

It’s not though. There are life ending implications to some neuropsych tests (e.g., dementia from aids). There are many psychiatric illnesses that have QOLs lower than pediatric cancer (e.g., autism, bipolar disorder). Hell, many of not most psychiatric medications create an increased odds ratio for developing physical illnesses that are associated with shorter life spans. Idiots who “determine” disability without any use of know professional standards don’t seem to know that putting someone on disability is associated with shorter life spans even when the illnesses covariable is accounted for.

Untrained people are cavalier in giving such diagnoses because they don’t know the base rates and the implications for giving someone a diagnosis.

 

[WisNeuro]

It’s not though. There are life ending implications to some neuropsych tests (e.g., dementia from aids). There are many psychiatric illnesses that have QOLs lower than pediatric cancer (e.g., autism, bipolar disorder). Hell, many of not most psychiatric medications create an increased odds ratio for developing physical illnesses that are associated with shorter life spans. Even how idiots “determine” disability without any use of know professional standards don’t seem to know that putting someone on disability is associated with shorter life spans even when the illnesses covariable is accounted for.

Untrained people are cavalier in giving such diagnoses because they don’t know the bare rates and the implications for giving someone a diagnosis.

Ehh, misdiagnosis can definitely be an issue, but it's usually a more distal issue and unlikely to result in immediate harm. Significant iatrogenic harm can, and does commonly occur. But, much harder to show causality than say someone performing unlicensed surgery. Regardless, I'm not sure midlevels are doing any more damage than providers already in the field. I've lost count of how many times I've seen people improperly make assumptions based on their faulty understanding of premorbid functioning and lack of knowledge of normal variability within a cognitive profile.

 

[Healthinfo104]

Because it's harder to kill someone by half-assedly administering a WAIS.

A law can't necessarily kill someone but you still can't practice law without the appropriate liscence

 

[Healthinfo104]

I mean, an SLP doing it is about the same level of suck as some of the diploma mill PsyD reports that I've seen around here. You just have to make your quality known to drown out the incompetents. I did take away all of the referrals one particularly crappy practitioner was getting from a neurologist nearby in the past few months.

Why are SLPs allowed to do IQ tests, they dont really even have any psych training?

 

[Healthinfo104]

I mean, an SLP doing it is about the same level of suck as some of the diploma mill PsyD reports that I've seen around here. You just have to make your quality known to drown out the incompetents. I did take away all of the referrals one particularly crappy practitioner was getting from a neurologist nearby in the past few months.

The neurologist was doing the assessments?

 

[WisNeuro]

Why are SLPs allowed to do IQ tests, they dont really even have any psych training?

Reasons

The neurologist was doing the assessments?

No

 

[psych.meout]

A law can't necessarily kill someone but you still can't practice law without the appropriate liscence

Don't capital punishment laws literally kill people?

Even without capital punishment, you're still dealing with incredible harm by having your rights and freedom taken away from you.

This is why defendants can appeal their convictions on the grounds of ineffective counsel.

 

[psych.meout]

The neurologist was doing the assessments?

No, go back and read that section again. The neurologist was the referrer and another (crappy) psychologist (sounds like a PsyD from context) was doing the assessments.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Why are SLPs allowed to do IQ tests, they dont really even have any psych training?

Because psychology has boundary issues.

 

[PsyDr]

Why are SLPs allowed to do IQ tests, they dont really even have any psych training?

Basically because psychologists created a bunch of aphasia testing, and slps successfully expanded their scope from speech retraining to cognitive retraining. They usually administer and interpret the tests wrong.

I think the real question is why would anyone want to do testing without training. Psychiatry has struggled with this for a long time in forensics.

Don't capital punishment laws literally kill people?

Even without capital punishment, you're still dealing with incredible harm by having your rights and freedom taken away from you.

This is why defendants can appeal their convictions on the grounds of ineffective counsel.

Defendants have a right to effective counsel, they do not have a right to effective expert witnesses. Let that one sink in.

 

[WisNeuro]

Basically because psychologists created a bunch of aphasia testing, and slps successfully expanded their scope from speech retraining to cognitive retraining. They usually administer and interpret the tests wrong.

You mean like, a 45 year old pt who gets a 7/10 on the naming section of the RBANS, and because 70% is like a C, he's in the average range? True story.

 

[psych.meout]

Basically because psychologists created a bunch of aphasia testing, and slps successfully expanded their scope from speech retraining to cognitive retraining. They usually administer and interpret the tests wrong.

I really hate that the refrain from other types of providers (e.g., SLP) is that we are engaging in "gatekeeping" when we bring up these kinds of scope of practice creep issues.

I think the real question is why would anyone want to do testing without training. Psychiatry has struggled with this for a long time in forensics.

A combination of greed, stupidity, and the Dunning-Kruger effect?

Defendants have a right to effective counsel, they do not have a right to effective expert witnesses. Let that one sink in.

And that's how innocent people have been literally been executed by the State, because the "expert" witnesses were either absent or incompetent.

You mean like, a 45 year old pt who gets a 7/10 on the naming section of the RBANS, and because 70% is like a C, he's in the average range? True story.

Seriously? That's insane. I knew better than that with just a bachelor's degree.

What kind of provider did the assessment? SLP?

 

[WisNeuro]

What kind of provider did the assessment? SLP?

In this instance, yes. But, I've seen similar egregious examples with OTs.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

You mean like, a 45 year old pt who gets a 7/10 on the naming section of the RBANS, and because 70% is like a C, he's in the average range? True story.

Sadly, i’ve seen this countless times. Too many to count. SLPs, OTs, Neurologists, etc.

 

[PsyDr]

If you really want to start getting mad, look up sensory integration disorder testing...

 

[Justanothergrad]

You mean like, a 45 year old pt who gets a 7/10 on the naming section of the RBANS, and because 70% is like a C, he's in the average range? True story.

You can't say thing like this while I'm at work. I don't bring alcohol here to burn away those comments.

 

[WisNeuro]

If you really want to start getting mad, look up sensory integration disorder testing...

Or ask an OT about any data that examines the CPT performance (not the one we use) in community dwelling older adults. Or what the MoCA looks like in 70+ adults in community dwelling settings, and why they are telling my patients they have dementia when their scores are well within limits for their age.

You can't say thing like this while I'm at work. I don't bring alcohol here to burn away those comments.

Feel my pain!

 

[psych.meout]

You can't say thing like this while I'm at work. I don't bring alcohol here to burn away those comments.

Well, that sounds like it can be easily fixed.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I love getting MoCAs of <10 where it was clear the patient didn’t even bother to try. First...it’s a MoCA, but then it’s like...do you even understand why your “conclusions” are uhm....wrong?

 

[cara susanna]

Are there any more examples of ways that SLPs and/or OTs tend to get it wrong? I've never worked with them in this capacity (thankfully) and I'm curious.

 

[Healthinfo104]

In this instance, yes. But, I've seen similar egregious examples with OTs.

How are all of these other professionals getting access to these tests? Don't the testing companies require you to show your credentials before you order them?

 

[Healthinfo104]

Basically because psychologists created a bunch of aphasia testing, and slps successfully expanded their scope from speech retraining to cognitive retraining. They usually administer and interpret the tests wrong.

I think the real question is why would anyone want to do testing without training. Psychiatry has struggled with this for a long time in forensics.



Defendants have a right to effective counsel, they do not have a right to effective expert witnesses. Let that one sink in.

Why are psychiatrists being allowed to do forensic testing/ assessments? Arent there legal issues involved with them trying to do that?

 

[psych.meout]

Why are psychiatrists being allowed to do forensic testing/ assessments? Arent there legal issues involved with them trying to do that?

The more you post questions like these here, the more it sounds suspiciously like you're asking for help with some kind of school assignment.

 

[ExecutiveDysfunction]

The more you post questions like these here, the more it sounds suspiciously like you're asking for help with some kind of school assignment.

You wouldn’t be wrong

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Mod Note: SDN is not for seeking assistance with homework, research paper assignments, etc. Thank you.