Psychology and Medical School

[MikeRim]

Hey, I'm thinking of starting my undergraduate in Psychology, and I've been told that after I get my bachelor's, it's difficult but POSSIBLE to get into med school. What I'd like to know is if med school is divided into sub-groupings. Meaning, if I take this path will I be confined to Psychiatry in med school, or will I be doing the same stuff someone who was in pre-med, rather than psych, be doing? Can I become a doctor one day in a field that has nothing to do with psychiatry/psychology?

On a side note, is it possible to do a psych undergrad and than get a masters in a business program?

Thank you very much,
Mike

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[nobleheart]

Diversity is certainly prefered. Psychology is an excellent undergrad major, as it provides a thourogh foundation for dealing with people. Regardless of your major you will have to take the standard premed prereq...Inorg. chem. 1 and2, Org chem 1 and 2, Physics 1 and 2, 8-10 hours of bio, and hopefully genetics and biochem. When I was going the Med route, the med schools that I was granted interviews with said they really liked seeing students with psych backgrounds.

In the long run, you are by no means expected to become a psychiatrist if you go this route. You choose the path. Good luck.

PS start volunteering now.

 

[pingouin]

Mike,

nobleheart's correct- med schools are really trending toward having diversity among undergrad majors nowadays. I have a BSSW and a MSW and am applying to schools this year. The feedback I've gotten so far (2 interviews scheduled) has been pretty positive about me being able to offer something unique to a program. There are several threads in the Pre-Allo forum which address this- you might want to do a search.

Regarding being locked in to doing psychiatry, you would not be. Even with my strong psych SW background, the psychiatrists I work with have been adamant that I need to consider all my options and keep an open mind about specialty. Although many people enter med school thinking they know the route they want to take, this often changes once they start doing clinical rotations in their 3rd year.

Do your pre-reqs, and do them well. Prepare well for the MCAT. Use the psychology degree to its max- do internships, etc to get clinical experience. Volunteer. Have extra-curricular activities. Write a killer personal statement. And most of all, GOOD LUCK!

 

[kyril]

mike,

i know folks who majored in art history and philosophy and went to med school (they of course also did excellent in all their med school pre reqs), and the same goes for business. actually, psych can be a great background if you're interested in HR, advertising, or marketing (your school may offer a course in industrial or organizational psychology, which you may find interesting).

nows the time, i think, to learn as much as possible, so take some psych, or business courses, talk to the profs, talk to your advisor. good luck.

 

[lilzelda2]

I was a psychology major in college and now I'm in medical school. You need to do well in your science pre-reqs and MCAT....If you have an "easy" major like psy your going to have to do well and get a good GPA, if you have a "hard" major like Bioeng. or biochem then a 3.2 doesn't look as bad as compared to a 3.2 in history.

I'm not sure if it offers any benefits being a psych major b/c schools vary for what they've look for in a student. I've heard our new dean saying the days of nonscience majors in med school is over, but thats just him.

When you get into medical school your learning how to be a general practitioner, its when you get to residency that you chose your speciality and there it really doesn't matter what your undergraduate degree was.

Just do good in your pre-reqs, MCATs, volunteer at a hospital, and do research .

 

[cbrons]

I'm going this route too actually. Psychology on my campus offers better and more interesting research opportunities and I'm doing a double major in biology as well.

 

[BillyWitchDoctr]

I think psychology is a great background for medicine. As a former psych major I feel that it has been a great benefit to me. There's a lot more to medicine than science and I believe that having a background in psychology makes me more aware of certain things such as family dynamics and how I'm communicating with a patient. Of course, to get in you'll need some science courses to prepare you for the MCAT but if you do well on this test then nobody will care what your major was in. The other side of the issue is that I felt like I was slightly behind the science majors in my class during the 1st year, but in retrospect this wasn't as important I thought it was.

 

[zizany]

I'm finishing an undergraduate degree in psychology this year and applying for med school too. It's a very wise major to choose, because it is FUN! Ok maybe it's just me who likes it (lol) but if it interests you, you should definetely choose psychology because you'll get a better GPA if you like what you learn. Just make sure to take all the prereqs for medicine and you're good to go.

 

[worriedwell]

I was a psych minor and science major. Now a psychiatry resident at a good university program. Was involved in medical student recruitment while in med school.

Med schools do like diversity and they do like the arts and humanities for sure. You need to keep in mind though...psychology is certainly an easy major in most people's opinions and considering how the average person in medical school (myself included) did in those types of classes vs. the hard sciences, it is probably accurate.

In other words, compared to the rigors and massive volume of scientific information you learn in medical school, you need to show a good background and ability to handle science classes while in college. Of course there are the prereqs but you should also show this in a few other rigorous scientific type courses. Psychology classes (especially lower level ones) are quite frankly a breeze and you will have a rude awakening in medical school if not exposed to other things.

Also psychology, last time I checked, was the most popular major in college. Everybody does it...and many who aren't exactly geniuses do it and manage a 3.5 gpa or so and then expect to compete to get into med school. MCATS are certainly important but don't think this gpa is competitive with a physics or chemistry major or even and engineering major with the same gpa. They will definitely dissect out your science gpa and scrutinize it heavily to see if you can handle med school work.

Also, many psychologists and clinical psychology majors like to quote statistics like phd programs for psychology are harder to get into than medical school but this statistic is flat out misleading and false. Its very hard for very smart people to get into medical school. First of all, its apples and oranges because the skills and experience each program looks for are often vastly different. Second because most of college in "premed" classes is spent "weeding out" people who cannot handle the rigor of the science. This happens from intro physics to higher level organic chemistry and beyond depending on the particular school. Thus every year, the cream rises to the top, and often after going through the process of having school advisers tell them whether they are eligible or not, the best applicants then apply. there are statistics somewhere about people who start college as "premed" vs those who end as premed and it is a bigger drop out rate than any other major. Will all due respect to psychology majors, they don't drop out because it is too hard and then switch into chemistry (on average of course).

Anywhere from 40-50% of applicants who apply to med school after extensive weeding out from college and then the huge weedout of the MCAT get into medical school. Approx 16 thousand people from the entire world enter med school at the 125 or so accredited US MD schools yearly. Most of these people are great at rapid information processing and good at science. Its part of the job description. And when you enter med school, you will all do the same thing regardless of your undergrad experience. This includes psychiatry wards, delivering babies, emergency room, neurology, internal medicine, general surgery, orthopedics, even boob jobs and more. There are no restrictions and in fact you cannot avoid doing things like scrubbing into an 8 hour surgery where you have to hold some stupid instrument and stay still while watching the surgeon do stomach and bowel reconstruction. Its amazing but painful and intense. And for somebody like me wasn't interested in cutting people open or procedures but rather the human part of medicine, alot of it was a drag. But it all was neccessary for the responsibility of understanding medication and how the body works.

Psychology majors who can handle the science will do great in medical school and beyond because all doctors are in the business of working with people and most psychology majors like to be people persons. So I don't mean to dissuade you, but be humble and responsible about doing a good deal of science work in college. And get clinical experience outside of psychology in a more hands on medical setting. Otherwise, if you do really well and get experience limited to psychology, you might be a great applicant for a psych phd or psyd program (which are themselves quite hard to get into), but you won't cut it for med school committees.

Best of luck,
worriedwell

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Med schools do like diversity and they do like the arts and humanities for sure. You need to keep in mind though...psychology is certainly an easy major in most people's opinions

Good to know.

Psychology classes (especially lower level ones) are quite frankly a breeze and you will have a rude awakening in medical school if not exposed to other things.

Because people who are in clinical psychology didn't take hard science classes in college and grad school?

Also psychology, last time I checked, was the most popular major in college. Everybody does it...and many who aren't exactly geniuses do it and manage a 3.5 gpa or so and then expect to compete to get into med school.

Oh...so THAT'S why our acceptance rates are so much lower, it is because everyone and their brother takes psychology courses.

Also, many psychologists and clinical psychology majors like to quote statistics like phd programs for psychology are harder to get into than medical school but this statistic is flat out misleading and false.

So the acceptance rates for most quality Ph.D. programs is some how MORE than the 46%-52% average from 2000-2006? When you have 17,915 spots filled (out of 39,336 applicants) compared to many thousands of applicants vying for a few thousand clinical psychology spots, which is harder to get into?

Will all due respect to psychology majors, they don't drop out because it is too hard and then switch into chemistry (on average of course).

Yes, as you pointed out above, your post is full of respect for people in psychology.

Please don't thread crap in this forum.

-t

 

[worriedwell]

Perhaps I came off as rude towards clinically psychology...and it appears that Therapist4Change is sensitive to that. I'm not here for that...rather the OP asked a simple question and given my background, especially in recruiting for medical school, I felt I might provide a reasonable perspective from the MD side of things. This is why I am providing this uncensored opinion. In order to provide serious information about applying to med school with a psychology background. If you don't agree with the opinion based on merit and would like to refute it...please do so by all means. But I stand by what I said and I feel it is a reasonable reflection of how medical academics might view the issue (if not the average person). If it is harsh, so be it. But come on, let's be realistic...100 and 200 level psych courses are just easy in comparison to entry level bio, physics, chem, biochem, organic chem. Is that really so offensive?

Of course, it is not generalizable to everybody and of course clinical psychologists are smart and its really hard to get into that type of school. The criteria though are different. And I was simply pointing out that it is not easy to get into medical school.

I don't believe it is feasible to compare admission rates because there are too many variables to do so. That seems to be what offended you most, so if you have some investment into feeling as though clinical psychology programs are "harder" to get into than medical school, then I will not push it. I just don't think it is a meaningful point to make and perhaps even false. And I make the counterpoint because the OP was specifically asking about chances for med school. So I was trying to say that excelling in psychology does not neccessarily reflect potential for success in medicine and in fact may mislead one into thinking they are more competitive than they are for medical school admission (having be involved in the process myself of doing the evaluating).

In addition, I know of at least a handful to a dozen clinical psychology grad students well, some who are close friends, and it is no secret between us that although they far exceed my and many of my medical colleagues in their fluency in the psychological literature and understanding of psychological research methodology, they would never have gotten into medical school because their skill set and interests are soooo different than medical doctors. In fact, one of my best friend's (N of 1 I know) is in a world class phd program but she literally could not handle intro bio, or intro calculus, or intro chemistry. Yet she excells in psychology...so telling an individual that it is easier to get into medical school than clinical psych school is doing them a disservice because it doesn't take into account their skills. There are statistics and arguments to be made against yours actually showing that its not quite as "clean" as you desperately need to believe to satisfy something for yourself as well. But the statistics are not useful heuristics in the real world in this issue.

Now I know you are going to respond arguing the flipside that you know a ton of doctors who would never get into clinical psych school etc, but that just reinforces the point that they are not comparable. And honestly, making a big issue of that statistic comes across as having an inferiority complex, veteranarians do the same thing with their acceptance rates, which is of course true numerically, but that isn't addressing the original point of the OP and it is more about being sensitive to perceived criticism rather than honestly answering the question.

I could just be encouraging in a fluffy way and say, yippee! go for it!...but that isn't helpful really. There certainly are many success stories from a psychology major, but they got there based on well roundedness and intelligence and a good background in biological science as reflected by a combination of scores on MCAT and on science grades in college.

I will go away now.

Worriedwell

Good to know.



Because people who are in clinical psychology didn't take hard science classes in college and grad school?





Oh...so THAT'S why our acceptance rates are so much lower, it is because everyone and their brother takes psychology courses.



So the acceptance rates for most quality Ph.D. programs is some how MORE than the 46%-52% average from 2000-2006? When you have 17,915 spots filled (out of 39,336 applicants) compared to many thousands of applicants vying for a few thousand clinical psychology spots, which is harder to get into?



Yes, as you pointed out above, your post is full of respect for people in psychology.

Please don't thread crap in this forum.

-t

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Perhaps I came off as rude towards clinically psychology...and it appears that Therapist4Change is sensitive to that.

There have been problems in the past of people with people trolling and instigating, so I didn't it it to go down that route.

Thank you for clarifying your points and providing a differing opinion on the subject, hopefully the OP finds it useful.

-t

 

[73BARMYPgsp]

My undergrad degree is a hard science degree (BS-Engineering--a lot of physics!) and I found clinical psych to be more challenging.

 

[psychanon]

Perhaps I came off as rude towards clinically psychology...and it appears that Therapist4Change is sensitive to that. I'm not here for that...rather the OP asked a simple question and given my background, especially in recruiting for medical school, I felt I might provide a reasonable perspective from the MD side of things. This is why I am providing this uncensored opinion. In order to provide serious information about applying to med school with a psychology background. If you don't agree with the opinion based on merit and would like to refute it...please do so by all means. But I stand by what I said and I feel it is a reasonable reflection of how medical academics might view the issue (if not the average person). If it is harsh, so be it. But come on, let's be realistic...100 and 200 level psych courses are just easy in comparison to entry level bio, physics, chem, biochem, organic chem. Is that really so offensive?

Of course, it is not generalizable to everybody and of course clinical psychologists are smart and its really hard to get into that type of school. The criteria though are different. And I was simply pointing out that it is not easy to get into medical school.

I don't believe it is feasible to compare admission rates because there are too many variables to do so. That seems to be what offended you most, so if you have some investment into feeling as though clinical psychology programs are "harder" to get into than medical school, then I will not push it. I just don't think it is a meaningful point to make and perhaps even false. And I make the counterpoint because the OP was specifically asking about chances for med school. So I was trying to say that excelling in psychology does not neccessarily reflect potential for success in medicine and in fact may mislead one into thinking they are more competitive than they are for medical school admission (having be involved in the process myself of doing the evaluating).

In addition, I know of at least a handful to a dozen clinical psychology grad students well, some who are close friends, and it is no secret between us that although they far exceed my and many of my medical colleagues in their fluency in the psychological literature and understanding of psychological research methodology, they would never have gotten into medical school because their skill set and interests are soooo different than medical doctors. In fact, one of my best friend's (N of 1 I know) is in a world class phd program but she literally could not handle intro bio, or intro calculus, or intro chemistry. Yet she excells in psychology...so telling an individual that it is easier to get into medical school than clinical psych school is doing them a disservice because it doesn't take into account their skills. There are statistics and arguments to be made against yours actually showing that its not quite as "clean" as you desperately need to believe to satisfy something for yourself as well. But the statistics are not useful heuristics in the real world in this issue.

Now I know you are going to respond arguing the flipside that you know a ton of doctors who would never get into clinical psych school etc, but that just reinforces the point that they are not comparable. And honestly, making a big issue of that statistic comes across as having an inferiority complex, veteranarians do the same thing with their acceptance rates, which is of course true numerically, but that isn't addressing the original point of the OP and it is more about being sensitive to perceived criticism rather than honestly answering the question.

I could just be encouraging in a fluffy way and say, yippee! go for it!...but that isn't helpful really. There certainly are many success stories from a psychology major, but they got there based on well roundedness and intelligence and a good background in biological science as reflected by a combination of scores on MCAT and on science grades in college.

I will go away now.

Worriedwell

Honestly, I think it's an unfair comparison to say that one is intrinsically harder than the other. Clinical psychology and medicine require vastly different skill sets. Somebody who is great at organic chemistry may not excel at synthesizing research literatures, generating original research ideas, designing appropriate methods, and navigating the publication process (to say nothing of the clinical side of things). They're simply different spectra. Plus, graduate level psychology is very different than undergraduate level psych, so it is unfair to make comparisons at the undergraduate level. Undergraduate psychology programs are often so easy exactly because the major is so popular-- an explanation I'll save for another time, another thread.

The other thing that's different about psych admissions is that it's much more of a crap shoot. If you are a qualified med school applicant-- that is, if you jump through all the necessary hoops-- course reqs, volunteer experience, top grades, top MCATS- you are likely to get into med school. In contrast, there are many psych applicants who have lots of experience and top grades & GREs who apply to a dozen schools and don't get accepted. When you have schools getting 500 applicants and accepting five, there is going to be a great deal of luck involved, no matter how qualified the applicant.

 

[worriedwell]

Honestly, I think it's an unfair comparison to say that one is intrinsically harder than the other. Clinical psychology and medicine require vastly different skill sets. Somebody who is great at organic chemistry may not excel at synthesizing research literatures, generating original research ideas, designing appropriate methods, and navigating the publication process (to say nothing of the clinical side of things). They're simply different spectra. Plus, graduate level psychology is very different than undergraduate level psych, so it is unfair to make comparisons at the undergraduate level. Undergraduate psychology programs are often so easy exactly because the major is so popular-- an explanation I'll save for another time, another thread.

The other thing that's different about psych admissions is that it's much more of a crap shoot. If you are a qualified med school applicant-- that is, if you jump through all the necessary hoops-- course reqs, volunteer experience, top grades, top MCATS- you are likely to get into med school. In contrast, there are many psych applicants who have lots of experience and top grades & GREs who apply to a dozen schools and don't get accepted. When you have schools getting 500 applicants and accepting five, there is going to be a great deal of luck involved, no matter how qualified the applicant.

I agree with everything said here that again reinforces that they are just totally different types of schools. The only thing I would add though, again addressing the original question which was about applying to medical school (and he did not express any interest in applying to clinical psych programs...so discussing graduate level training or courses or techniques probably is low yield for him...in fact, comparing undergrad courses is actually much more important because that is the step he is in and my original point is that much of the undergrad psychology coursework is viewed as easy and therefore he shouldn't assume he is a "successful candidate" for medical school based on success in a psychology major), is that although jumping through all the hoops (and my other point was that the hoops are very tough hoops) often gets one into medical school, this is not always true as the last step of weeding someone out is through the interview which is the final and one of the most important steps for medical school. The interviewing physicians are assessing your communication and interpersonal skills which are vital to clinical medicine. So it is not actually only about the numbers as I know people with numbers that were through the roof that did not get into any medical school.

Best,
Worriedwell

 

[foreverLaur]

Hey, I'm thinking of starting my undergraduate in Psychology, and I've been told that after I get my bachelor's, it's difficult but POSSIBLE to get into med school. What I'd like to know is if med school is divided into sub-groupings. Meaning, if I take this path will I be confined to Psychiatry in med school, or will I be doing the same stuff someone who was in pre-med, rather than psych, be doing? Can I become a doctor one day in a field that has nothing to do with psychiatry/psychology?

On a side note, is it possible to do a psych undergrad and than get a masters in a business program?

Thank you very much,
Mike

Like everyone else said - your undergraduate major does not matter for medical school admissions and I also agree that psychology is a great degree for medical school.

Secondly, what you did in undergrad and what your major was makes absolutely no difference in medical school. Everyone takes the same courses and doest he same rotations with the exceptions of elective rotations which each student can pick for him/herself.

Thirdly, MBA programs also do not care what your undergraduate major and they tend to lean more towards non-business school students. I spent two years as an accounting major and my intermediate financial accounting book was the same book used in the required financial accounting book for MBA students. Majority of MBA students do not come from business backgrounds. They look more at your GMAT score and your previous work experience - it doesn't matter what it is as long as it was meaningful and valuable.

 

[sunlioness]

Hey, I'm thinking of starting my undergraduate in Psychology, and I've been told that after I get my bachelor's, it's difficult but POSSIBLE to get into med school. What I'd like to know is if med school is divided into sub-groupings. Meaning, if I take this path will I be confined to Psychiatry in med school, or will I be doing the same stuff someone who was in pre-med, rather than psych, be doing? Can I become a doctor one day in a field that has nothing to do with psychiatry/psychology?

I majored in East Asian history. Med schools LOVED it. I'm a psychiatry resident now, but I started out in internal medicine. Your undergraduate major doesn't limit you by specialty in any way. My PCP was a psychology major as an undergrad and now she's an internist.