Psychology Doctorate at 40

[Psychonot]

Hi all,

I'm new here, so sorry if this violates any rules. I wanted to ask a few questions about pursuing a clinical psychology PhD/PsyD as a career changer.

I'm turning 37 this year, and I currently work as a data analyst doing machine learning and mathematical modeling for a large corporation. I really can't see myself doing something similar for another ~30 years, and I'm considering a second career in a helping profession like psychology.

I'm aware this is not a good financial move, and that the opportunity cost of pursuing a doctorate will be considerable, and I'll end up making less than I do now. However, I don't have kids, and I live pretty simply, so the financial aspect is not a huge concern to me.

What I'm looking to better understand is that I would realistically need to do to actually get myself into a doctorate program in the next 3-4 years. I majored in linguistics, and did well, graduating with a ~3.98. I did have about a year working in a lab, but it wasn't very impressive (just running eye tracking tests), and I haven't kept in touch with anyone for an LOR.

Most PhD/PsyD programs I've looked at want 18 hours of psych courses, 3 LORs and significant research experience. It seems like my best bet would be to reach out to professors at local universities, and see if I could volunteer at their lab (maybe lending my analysis skills), while taking required course work in order to get LORs.

I think my main questions are:

• What would I need to do research wise to actually be a good candidate for a funded program?
  • Posters?
  • Authorship?
  • A certain number of hours to show competence?
• Is this even a workable plan at my age?

Also, as a quick note, I have looked into counseling MAs as well, and I would really prefer a psychology doctorate, for both the ability to do research and assessments, and the more evidence-based approach to therapy.

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[summerbabe]

What would I need to do research wise to actually be a good candidate for a funded program?

I came from a similarish strong non-psychology background (3 units in all of undergrad and no research) and started work on my funded PhD at age 28.

IMO, one of the biggest hurdles is to demonstrate competency in psych research methods.

A typical undergrad psych major has likely said 'OMG I am so fascinated by how the human brain works'. While the enthusiasm is great, that's a million miles away from a tangible research question/project.

My bias is that readiness to begin concretely working independently with appropriate mentor guidance on a graduate level thesis (that is often the precursor to one's dissertation) is one of the key factors when you are being evaluated during admissions.

Some PIs probably exclusively look to admit students with authorship since they are likely utilizing these skills already while others are OK with a combo of poster contributions and time spent in a lab/research team.

Pure hours aren't a great metric if somebody is only running experiments or coding data. And sometimes people doing grunt work can get attached to a poster so that's not a perfect measure either.

Look for research experiences where you can actively participate in developing research questions, conducting lit reviews, critically thinking through research methods options and being involved in analysis. And then be able to speak to this process in personal statements and interviews.

Hopefully you can also work on defining some major topics you're passionate about and get some experience actively investigating one or more of those topics, which will help you define mentors who are good fits. Good luck!

 

[Dazen]

I also started my PhD at 28 and came from other majors/careers (engineering undergrad, finance job). I took some courses online through a brick and mortar institution while still working my day job to meet the 18 credit/specific course minimums - this is generally a checkbox, so as long as you meet requirements, you're good.

Agree with everything @summerbabe said. Start gaining research experience, with an aim to contribute to study conceptualization, analyses, and writing in addition to the grunt work. Find ways to demonstrate intellectual contributions to projects. Quality of experience will matter much more than number of hours. Posters/pubs always look good, but can take a long time depending on the lab you're in. Strong recommendation letters from psychologists are important and more in your control.

Definitely make sure you're narrowing down a research interest and that you can speak to it well in your statement. My impression (which may be off base) is that showing strong scientific writing and knowledge of your sub-field in your personal statement is especially important for career changers, since it's one of showing you've done your homework about the field. I'd also think through what skills you can bring from your previous work into psychology research and how to link those to your research interests and goals. Having a strong quant/programming background is always extremely helpful, so communicate how you can use those skills to uniquely move your subfield forward. You might also look for labs that use more complex methods and/or programs with quant minors, as they often will value this experience more highly.

I'm currently a grad student, so I don't have a ton of insight into how applications are considered, but this is a lot of what worked for me and what I considered when crafting my application. Good luck with your decision and, if you choose psychology, with your journey into the field. I gave up a much higher salary at one of those "oh you work THERE?" jobs and couldn't be happier right now. Any decision you make will require sacrificing unlimited other possibilities, so it's all about figuring out which ones are worth it, and psychology definitely was for me.

 

[calimich]

I started my phd in my early 30's, a funded counseling psych program, about a decade after earning a BS in psychobio.
I agree with @summerbabe and @Dazen and want to highlight this:

I'd also think through what skills you can bring from your previous work into psychology research and how to link those to your research interests and goals. Having a strong quant/programming background is always extremely helpful, so communicate how you can use those skills to uniquely move your subfield forward.

Prior to doc school I was a licensed stockbroker, a credentialled high school science teacher, and a peace corps volunteer. In my application materials I was able to tell a coherent story of my work experience, skills gained, interests refined, and how I hoped to use the doctorate (rather than an MA), and why counseling (rather than clinical). I leaned into my strengths and addressed, but did not dwell on traditional weaknesses (I had zero posters or pubs, <2.5 undergrad gpa). I also knew my undergrad GPA did not accurately reflect my academic chops - my life was wacky then - and I put many hours into preparing for the GREs and scored >90%ile.

My suggestion is to lean into the skills you've gained in your 15+ year career, highlight what makes you different from the modal applicant coming straight from undergrad. Address any weaknesses without dwelling or apologizing. Focus on what you will bring to the field from your background, how your research/clinical interests have been sharpened by working in industry.

your undergrad gpa was much higher than mine and I can see how your skills would be very desirable. it's a dynamic profession and I am very happy with my choices. good luck! my .02 from an n of 1

edited to add: geographic flexibility is very important imo, I was married, but no kids yet. I applied nation-wide and we ended up in a state we'd never considered before in a city we'd barely heard of. I started doc school immediately after 2 years of peace corps with my wife, and literally anywhere in the US was closer to our families than we had been the years prior. Thankfully internship brought us back "home" and we've been here since.

 

[PsyDr]

1) Create a narrative that explains why your current skill set applies to clinical (not research) work. Elevator speech. You want to explain why your background is a strength, and not evidence that you’re going to leave a program when you change your mind again OR challenge professors because of your age.

2) Lifestyle isn’t a consideration, but retirement should be. If you’re going to do this, figure out if you can do some back door contributions, or buy some rental properties, or move some money into a trust to avoid tax liabilities.

3) There has to be some ultra nerd data analytics conference that applies to cognition or healthcare. Go to those or become a member and sign up for a list serv.

4) join the APA’s mathematical psych division

 

[Psychonot]

Hey, all. Thank you so muchI for the extremely valuable information. This has given me a ton to go off of.

Look for research experiences where you can actively participate in developing research questions, conducting lit reviews, critically thinking through research methods options and being involved in analysis. And then be able to speak to this process in personal statements and interviews.

This is great advice. I definitely don't just want a grunt work position.

Definitely make sure you're narrowing down a research interest and that you can speak to it well in your statement.

I have a couple of follow up questions about this? Is it important that the research experience I get now be related? My concern is that I'll probably have to take what I can get since I'll be emailing PIs as a non student and hoping someone says yes.

My second question is about research on psychedelic-assisted therapy. It seems like a promising area, and the possibilities sound great based on the more pop sci things I've read. Is this an area worth pursuing at this time?

why counseling (rather than clinical)

I'm actually a bit confused on the differences here. I've done some preliminary research, and a lot of people say they're functionally the same at this point. Are there any good resources you'd suggest to help me understand the distinction?

2) Lifestyle isn’t a consideration, but retirement should be. If you’re going to do this, figure out if you can do some back door contributions, or buy some rental properties, or move some money into a trust to avoid tax liabilities.

Yeah, this has weighed the most heavily on me. I max out my 401k, so I'll be losing somewhere north of 165k's worth of contributions with the match. My wife and I do own our house and a rental property, which will offset things a bit. But it stings. Thank you for being honest there.

Thanks again, everyone. This was super helpful.