Psychopath vs Antisocial vs Sociopath

[Iwillheal]

Hi, I've searched for those terms in google scholar but can't find a good article that compares and defines those terms in a satisfactory manner. Except for ASPD, the other two terms are not defined the same way by everybody, though Hare's definition is probably the most respected of all of them when it comes to psychopathy. My view is that sociopaths are not necessarily psychopaths because all kinds of people do act in manipulative and heartless manner in real life, not because they get a kick out of it, but because they need to make a living.

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[vistaril]

Hi, I've searched for those terms in google scholar but can't find a good article that compares and defines those terms in a satisfactory manner. Except for ASPD, the other two terms are not defined the same way by everybody, though Hare's definition is probably the most respected of all of them when it comes to psychopathy. My view is that sociopaths are not necessarily psychopaths because all kinds of people do act in manipulative and heartless manner in real life, not because they get a kick out of it, but because they need to make a living.

you dont need an "article to define them".......sociopath and psychopath are used the same way, except sociopath is used much more frequently now. to the extent they may still be used differently, sociopath may be preferred where one wants to emphasize the cause of the person's behavior to social factors.

Sociopath/psychopath simply refers to a certain % of antisocials. The "worst" if you will. Not every antisocial is a sociopath, but every sociopath is an antisocial.

The hallmark of being a sociopath/psychopath is you have no morals whatsoever. That is the one thing most predictive of sociopathy. There are other points that suggest sociopathy, such as lack of affect when it would be expected, absence of neuroticness, impersonal sex life, and several other things.......

there are also a few checklists you can use....one being the PLC...look it up

 

[Iwillheal]

Oh, I see. Thank you.

 

[whopper]

but can't find a good article that compares and defines those terms in a satisfactory manner

There are no yet accepted terms to the degree where they are universal. There is no DSM IV definition of psychopathy or sociopathy. Some have used psychopathy to mean an even more extreme form of sociopathy such as comparing a mobster like the characters from Goodfellas to Anton Chigurh from No Country for Old Men, though again there is no accepted definition.

And this is a shame because this is a term often used by those in forensic psychology and psychiatry. We often know what we're talking about when it comes to this but when there's no exact guidelines, with Hare's test being the only thing close to a standard, this can obviously cause problems.

 

[aphenomenon]

Psychopathy is considered a subtype of antisocial personality disorder (APD; Herpertz and Habermeyer 2004), and the diagnostic criteria for both APD and psychopathy are currently debated (Cooke et al. 2005; Widiger et al. 1996). This is in part because psychopathy seems to refer to a heterogeneous cluster of traits, leading to disagreement about what makes one a psychopath, and what kind of psychopath.

Psychopathy is generally differentiated from other disorders involving antisocial symptoms by extreme affective deficits as well as extreme behavioral transgressions. Psychopaths are abnormally callous and unemotional (CU): they do not seem capable of feeling guilt or remorse for their actions, and seem unable to empathize with their victims (Blair 2001). The violent acts committed by psychopaths also differ from the violence typically committed by other offenders. For example, murders committed by psychopaths are much more likely to be premeditated than murders committed by nonpsychopaths (Woodworth and Porter 2002). Blair defines the violent behavior characteristic of psychopaths as "instrumental aggression," and distinguishes this from the reactive aggression associated with other APD disorders, including acquired sociopathy, by its goal directedness and situational independence (Blair 2001, 727). Clinically, psychopathy is diagnosed with the Psychopathy Checklist or the Psychopathy Checklist&mdash Revised developed by Hare (Blair 2001).

Additionally, psychopaths have higher rates of recidivism regardless of their postprison environments, in contradistinction with recidivism rates of other criminals with APD (Hemphill et al. 1998).

some excerpts from Philosophy, Psychiatry, & Psychology, Volume 18, Number 4, December 2011, pp. 349-357

 

[aphenomenon]

Peay seems to focus mainly on antisocial personality disorder (DSM-IV-TR), but also mentions dangerous and severe personality disorder (Home Office and Department of Health, 1999), psychopathic disorder (Mental Health Act, 1983), and psychopathy (usually defined by Hare's Psychotherapy Check List-Revised (PCL-R). These diagnoses differ in important ways. Some are psychiatric, whereas others are legal in their purposes and uses. They have varying degrees of scientific testing and validity. They also differ in coverage. In one sample from a medium-security prison in the United States, more than eighty percent of the prisoners met the DSM-IV-TR criteria for antisocial personality disorder, but fewer than twenty [End Page 245] percent were diagnosed as psychopaths under the PCL-R (Kent Kiehl, personal communication).
Because these categories are so different, we need to specify which one is at issue. Most patients with antisocial personality disorder might respond to cognitive–behavioral therapy and might be responsible under legal and moral standards, even if the same does not hold for most true psychopaths. Some studies (Rice, Harris, and Cormier 1992) have found that some talk therapy actually increases the rate of recidivism in psychopaths! Moreover, many researchers distinguish subtypes of psychopathy, so different psychopaths might respond differently to different treatments and might also differ in their responsibility. This variety makes it impossible to justify precise answers to general questions like: Are people with personality disorder treatable or responsible? Are people with antisocial personality disorder treatable or responsible? Are psychopaths treatable or responsible?

Philosophy, Psychiatry, & Psychology > Volume 18, Number 3, September 2011

 

[whopper]

Psychopathy is considered a subtype of antisocial personality disorder (APD; Herpertz and Habermeyer 2004)

While many view this to be the case, some disagree. An editor in the Green Journal recently mentioned that some view psychopathy as distinctly different because mood disorders are associated with ASPD, while those with psychopathy are actually protected from having a mood disorder because they apparently experience emotions on a level less intense.

Though like I said, when there's no specific guidelines as to what psychopathy is, it becomes muddy in debating about it.

 

[silas2642]

Hi, I've searched for those terms in google scholar but can't find a good article that compares and defines those terms in a satisfactory manner. Except for ASPD, the other two terms are not defined the same way by everybody, though Hare's definition is probably the most respected of all of them when it comes to psychopathy. My view is that sociopaths are not necessarily psychopaths because all kinds of people do act in manipulative and heartless manner in real life, not because they get a kick out of it, but because they need to make a living.

The way my forensics attending explained it to me was that "sociopath" and "psychopath" are more laymen's terms where "sociopath" refers to antisocial traits that tend to rise from environmental influences and "psychopath" refers to traits that are more biological in etiology. However, she also warned us that when documenting, NOT to use the term "psychopath," as this opens you up to a libel lawsuit. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[splik]

The way my forensics attending explained it to me was that "sociopath" and "psychopath" are more laymen's terms where "sociopath" refers to antisocial traits that tend to rise from environmental influences and "psychopath" refers to traits that are more biological in etiology. However, she also warned us that when documenting, NOT to use the term "psychopath," as this opens you up to a libel lawsuit. Take it for what it's worth.

this was my understand as well. however the terms sociopath and psychopath have now been conflated and are used interchangeably even though initially it was believed that psychopaths were 'born' and sociopaths were 'made'.

 

[whopper]

It's funny how people are drawing distinctions despite that there's no consensus to do so. There are lots of emerging data showing that whatever psychopathy is, there may be a component to it that is not so much by the person's own choice.

If you write someone is a sociopath or psychopath, you better be in a position where you can defend it well should it ever go to court when there's hardly any consensus as to how to define it. A Hare test is the best you can do, but even with that I'd merely say the Hare test was (+) and I'd refrain from calling the person such.

As good as the Hare test is, I've had problems with it. I had a person I evaluated who stalked someone for years and terrorized her, and he met behavior that I think most would consider a psychopath. The guy traveled across the country to hide his tracks in his efforts to terrorize her, traveling to other states while going to Internet cafes to monitor her schedule, hoping that this would prevent investigators from identifying a usual IP address. He also shot a gun at her in sniper-fashion, intentionally missing, enjoying seeing her in his scope crying in terror, rented an apartment under a false name while he lived in two cities, leading a dual-life, one of homebody, one terrorizing her, and he had no prior criminal record. The only time he ever felt any type of enjoyment was when he terrorized her and he did it for about 2 years. He was not considered a psychopath by that test because he didn't meet the impulsiveness requirement, but had all the other categories and was quite high in them.

 

[splik]

There was a really interesting paper in the Archives some months ago suggesting structural differences on MRI between brains of those with ASPD and those with ASPD with psychopathy - they found reduced grey matter volume in the anterior rostral PFC and temporal poles.

Here it is: http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1149316

Lots of ethical issues involved regarding the potential for using neuroimaging in risk assessment, predicting risk of violence, or diagnosing psychopathy.

If anyone is interested I have attached a paper that explores the ethics of neuroscience in legal determination of criminal responsibility...

 

[Poisson]

Do mobsters typically always have a condition? Lets say somebody wants to join a company, they get this job, they work there, the culture of that company may change the way this person is at all times, and may treat their friends and family different. Take a person that is a "street guy," he grows up with a lot of guys from high school. High school guys all try to act a certain way, act stupid sometimes, and conform (creates the fake and invisible face kind of person that always laughs). They never leave this environment, and don't branch out, because left and right of them is the same way. They admire people in this society, and accept the romanticism with it. Some in the community put on the face each day, others live it like its a religion. Killing is part of this society. Because they are in an institution of the mob, they kill probably originally out of fear that a hesitation would end them in a moments notice. Because they are in the institution of the mob (living in fear at all times), which was bread by their surroundings, they loose touch with whats right and wrong. Most of the young people that would be recruited early in their time, would not have the constitution to be able to at least try to be an associate and get a piece of this lifestyle while avoiding more heavy criminal activity. I think other mobsters came in the mob that really did enjoy killing like a specialty, this to me is a totally different criminal, even though they both were in the institution of the mob. Some however, joined the mob and found out that killing was their specialty, and I don't know what this would be called, but these folks that earned their buttons and went all the way up and kept dismembering the bodies themselves, this has got to be a different kind of criminal mind. I think most of the people in the mob, that would commit terrible acts, would do so out of requirement and fear.

... anyways, my guess would be that some people do in fact wake up early on, and take pleasure in evil acts (regardless of parental upbringing), and those that because of their surroundings commit evil acts ... but yeah I wonder if lots of the evil people just have a catalyst that pushes them more towards their destiny ... i would be interested to check out the literature more about psychiatry

--- it must be hard to determine if a person would always be one way, and got beat up by coincidence, this made the person mad so we think that society made him or her the beaten puppy that got mad, but in reality this person had some evil tendency, or unhuman characteristic that caused others to pick on him or her originally (or some antisocial / unhuman characteristic not related to getting beaten up) .... listening to BTK, he said early on he knew something was off, I would be surprised if someone would diagnose him as having a biological problem, but I believe that that's not out of the ballpark ... it must be hard to put the mind into a simple diagnosis as sociopath, psychopath, etc.

 

[Apollyon]

As a non-psychiatrist who sees a lot of psych in the ED, I was just considering the word "psychopath" - a person afflicted with "psychopathology". "Psychopathology" makes sense. "Sociopathology" doesn't sound essentially 'right' to me, but "sociopath" does. However, "psychopath" is a word, like "Scientology", that, taken only on its merits, devoid of social construct, should be able to yield a precise meaning from its own word roots, such as congress, transgress, egress, ingress, and regress. As has been amply shown, though, this does not occur with "psychopath".

 

[whopper]

A very good friend of mine was in the mafia in a low position, left it, went to college and that's where I met him. A few very good friends had fathers in it. Hey, I've been to their homes, been treated like a welcome guest, and never was in fear. I don't know what these guys did all the time, but the times I've seen them, I never had a problem. One of my friends, his dad was dead-set against him taking up his business. Another one, well let's just say the only time I've seen him do something not so legal, I wasn't exactly against it. His daughter (a very good friend who is now a professor in Harvard) was sold a lemon, he approached the guy who sold her the lemon, telling him he'd get all of his money back for the car, just allow the return to happen, the guy refused, and well let's just say this guy was given an bullet in an envelope and a newspaper article explaining who my friend's father was, a note saying how my friend's father would truly appreciate it if he allowed the return to happen, and that he would be very disappointed if it didn't. The guy immediately allowed the car to be returned in the smoothest, most expedient manner you'd ever expect.

There's different layers of it. Some of it being those in your worst nightmares, going in to kill, rape, or break the legs of someone who didn't pay on time, to another type who almost has a respect within the local community.

My brother's art teacher got into a car accident with a mob boss's son, it was the son's fault (he was drunk), the son died, and the mob terrorized this art teacher for years. We were having dinner once with the art teacher and a guy was there eyeing him the entire time, and he told us who the guy was because at that time we already knew what was going on.

I guess if you live in NJ long enough you know at least a few people like this. I'm not talking places like upper-class Princeton, I'm talking north-Jersey and start hanging out in the right places.

 

[Iwillheal]

I guess if you live in NJ long enough you know at least a few people like this...

lol