PTCAS Course Repeat Loophole?

[One Punch Man]

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This question is directed to those who have already applied through PTCAS and are familiar with the process.

I took algebra-based physics (general physics 1 & 2) a few years ago and I got a C+ and B-. Would retaking calculus-based physics (physics 1 & 2) allow me to use those higher grades for my prerequisite requirements? (as opposed to averaging the courses together.)

 

[SVDPT_91]

This question is directed to those who have already applied through PTCAS and are familiar with the process.

I took algebra-based physics (general physics 1 & 2) a few years ago and I got a C+ and B-. Would retaking calculus-based physics (physics 1 & 2) allow me to use those higher grades for my prerequisite requirements? (as opposed to averaging the courses together.)

I would assume so. The other classes would still count for cumulative though. Some schools have you send in additional applications or a separate sheet with the classes you want to count as your prerequisites. Schools are different but I think most would allow a higher level course to fulfill the spot.

And for ptcas specifically I think that would be fine. When you input a class and grade, you need to label it as a prerequisite if you want it to count.

 

[ralfloran]

I would assume so. The other classes would still count for cumulative though. Some schools have you send in additional applications or a separate sheet with the classes you want to count as your prerequisites. Schools are different but I think most would allow a higher level course to fulfill the spot.

And for ptcas specifically I think that would be fine. When you input a class and grade, you need to label it as a prerequisite if you want it to count.

That's exactly what I did. I took the "harder" Calc I freshman year and I ended up taking the "easier" Calc I as a Junior. Replaced my C+ with an A- and pretty sure it helped my prereq GPA. I also put the "easier" Calc I as the prereq for my PTCAS

 

[One Punch Man]

I see. Thank you for your responses 🙂

So essentially I can retake prerequisite courses and have the higher grades used for pGPA calculation so long as the courses being repeated isn't exactly the same.

 

[ralfloran]

Essentially, yes. How the schools judge you on these grades is unknown, though

 

[One Punch Man]

Essentially, yes. How the schools judge you on these grades is unknown, though

I figured that obtaining A's in more challenging courses would reflect positively with adcoms.

 

[ralfloran]

I figured that obtaining A's in more challenging courses would reflect positively with adcoms.

I don't think admissions committee actually care if it's "algebra-based" versus "calculus-based." If it really mattered, they probably would not even accept "algebra-based" physics to satisfy a pre-req since they're quite different. I am pretty sure PT schools just want to make sure you understand the concepts of force and torque.

If it was up to me, I would definitely take the "easier" verison of the course in order to satisfy the requirement. Why risk it when you can get that A either way right? I know you don't want them to average your re-take with your old grade but what if you don't get that A?

 

[One Punch Man]

Why risk it when you can get that A either way right? I know you don't want them to average your re-take with your old grade but what if you don't get that A?

I certainly understand that there is a risk in taking the more difficult courses. However, the truth is that I am at a strong disadvantage as my cumulative GPA is subpar when compared to other applicants.

One of the solutions that I thought of that would for sure make me more competitive was to raise my prerequisite GPA to a near perfect 4.0. Of course the only way to do this is to take the more difficult courses in order to prevent averaging my retakes. Averaging my prereqs will only yield me a 3.56 pGPA, which is not that competitive.

There's always a possibility that I won't get an A, but so long as I study like crazy it is a risk that I am willing to take.

 

[ralfloran]

I certainly understand that there is a risk in taking the more difficult courses. However, the truth is that I am at a strong disadvantage as my cumulative GPA is subpar when compared to other applicants.

One of the solutions that I thought of that would for sure make me more competitive was to raise my prerequisite GPA to a near perfect 4.0. Of course the only way to do this is to take the more difficult courses in order to prevent averaging my retakes. Averaging my prereqs will only yield me a 3.56 pGPA, which is not that competitive.

There's always a possibility that I won't get an A, but so long as I study like crazy it is a risk that I am willing to take.

I like the hustle. Good luck buddy!

 

[One Punch Man]

I like the hustle. Good luck buddy!

I'm not your buddy, friend!


















(South Park reference.)

Sorry I couldn't help it lol. Thanks man, I will post updates on my status as they come. I want to give future low GPA applicants some insight on how to be more competitive.

 

[ss1817]

I certainly understand that there is a risk in taking the more difficult courses. However, the truth is that I am at a strong disadvantage as my cumulative GPA is subpar when compared to other applicants.

One of the solutions that I thought of that would for sure make me more competitive was to raise my prerequisite GPA to a near perfect 4.0. Of course the only way to do this is to take the more difficult courses in order to prevent averaging my retakes. Averaging my prereqs will only yield me a 3.56 pGPA, which is not that competitive.

There's always a possibility that I won't get an A, but so long as I study like crazy it is a risk that I am willing to take.

You may already know this but for someone who is retaking prereqs it is advantageous to apply to schools that accept your best attempt instead of averaging the retakes. I too chose to take a more advanced course (organic chem I) in the chemistry department in an attempt to "redeem" myself for a poor performance in chem II. At the same time I retook any prereq I didn't have an A in to be sure to boost my pGPA because my cGPA was also subpar. Good luck, it will pay off in the end!

 

[One Punch Man]

You may already know this but for someone who is retaking prereqs it is advantageous to apply to schools that accept your best attempt instead of averaging the retakes. I too chose to take a more advanced course (organic chem I) in the chemistry department in an attempt to "redeem" myself for a poor performance in chem II. At the same time I retook any prereq I didn't have an A in to be sure to boost my pGPA because my cGPA was also subpar. Good luck, it will pay off in the end!

Yes I'm aware that there are schools that take the higher grades for prereqs as opposed to averaging them. I will definitely be applying to those schools. I just wanted to apply to other schools as well just in case for some reason I don't get into my top choices.

Have you already applied to PT schools and been accepted? What were your stats? Since you took any prereq you didn't get an A in, was your pGPA a 4.0?

 

[ss1817]

Yes I'm aware that there are schools that take the higher grades for prereqs as opposed to averaging them. I will definitely be applying to those schools. I just wanted to apply to other schools as well just in case for some reason I don't get into my top choices.

Have you already applied to PT schools and been accepted? What were your stats? Since you took any prereq you didn't get an A in, was your pGPA a 4.0?

I have already applied and been accepted. This was my third cycle applying so it's been a process for me. I actually didn't end up retaking every course simply because I ran out of time (and wanted to get back to working full time to save some money before PT school). I ended up getting As in every course I did retake so I applied with 2 Bs and the rest As in my prereqs. My stats were: cGPA: 3.03, pGPA: 3.73, GRE: 300, 4, Obs. Hrs: 113 inpatient volunteer, 1200+ outpatient volunteer/paid (PT tech).

 

[ralfloran]

I'm not your buddy, friend!


















(South Park reference.)

Sorry I couldn't help it lol. Thanks man, I will post updates on my status as they come. I want to give future low GPA applicants some insight on how to be more competitive.

Don't worry I got the reference. What was/is your GPA? I got in w around a 3.4 both cGPA and preGPA

 

[One Punch Man]

Don't worry I got the reference. What was/is your GPA? I got in w around a 3.4 both cGPA and preGPA

My cGPA is sub 3.0 at the moment. I'm in the process of retaking 22 credits for my prereqs and will be done by the end of Spring 2018. Assuming I get A's in everything, by that point in time my cGPA will be a 3.07 and my pGPA will be a 3.91. I will be focusing on the GRE for several months to maximize my score. I will aim for 320+ combined.

I will be hoping that my pGPA and my GRE scores can overshadow my cGPA.

 

[Cam1992]

Just be careful to double check that the programs you're applying to take a calc based physics class. One or two of the programs I wanted to apply to specifically wanted algebra based and would not take my calc based class!

 

[One Punch Man]

Just be careful to double check that the programs you're applying to take a calc based physics class. One or two of the programs I wanted to apply to specifically wanted algebra based and would not take my calc based class!

Really? That's interesting. I wonder why they wouldn't take the more difficult class.

 

[Cam1992]

Really? That's interesting. I wonder why they wouldn't take the more difficult class.

That's a really good question. They didn't explain why when I asked them if they took it. I think it was Lynchburg in VA that didn't take it

 

[RSMohamed]

This question is directed to those who have already applied through PTCAS and are familiar with the process.

I took algebra-based physics (general physics 1 & 2) a few years ago and I got a C+ and B-. Would retaking calculus-based physics (physics 1 & 2) allow me to use those higher grades for my prerequisite requirements? (as opposed to averaging the courses together.)

It depends on the program you are applying to. If you have your heart set on a particular school I would email the program director and find out for sure. But from my personal experience MOST take the highest grade into account when calculating prerequisite GPA because that's how PTCAS does it.

 

[Skyris]

MOST take the highest grade into account when calculating prerequisite GPA because that's how PTCAS does it.

PTCAS averages the grades for both cumulative and self-reported prereq gpa.

 

[RSMohamed]

PTCAS averages the grades for both cumulative and self-reported prereq gpa.

PTCAS only asks for one input per prerequisite, so it would be hard for them to average it unless you went out of your way to include all tries as a prerequisite. My prereq GPA personally went from about a 2.5 to a 3.66 after retakes.

 

[ss1817]

PTCAS only asks for one input per prerequisite, so it would be hard for them to average it unless you went out of your way to include all tries as a prerequisite. My prereq GPA personally went from about a 2.5 to a 3.66 after retakes.

Correct me if I'm wrong but PTCAS requires you to enter any and all coursework taken, even repeated courses. Repeated courses must be labeled as such and you only assign one course for each prereq. I believe PTCAS then averages your attempts to calculate the GPAs. For those who have repeated courses it would be in your best interest to only apply to schools that accept your best attempt at a course.

 

[RSMohamed]

Correct me if I'm wrong but PTCAS requires you to enter any and all coursework taken, even repeated courses. Repeated courses must be labeled as such and you only assign one course for each prereq. I believe PTCAS then averages your attempts to calculate the GPAs. For those who have repeated courses it would be in your best interest to only apply to schools that accept your best attempt at a course.

you have to enter every class you've taken regardless of retakes or even if you've withdrawn, and they are all averaged in for your cumulative GPA. however for prereq GPA you only designate one attempt per prereq so PTCAS calculates the prereq GPA based on highest attempt. Obviously schools can look at your transcripts and calculate them based on averages but thats dependent on schools not PTCAS.

 

[ss1817]

you have to enter every class you've taken regardless of retakes or even if you've withdrawn, and they are all averaged in for your cumulative GPA. however for prereq GPA you only designate one attempt per prereq so PTCAS calculates the prereq GPA based on highest attempt. Obviously schools can look at your transcripts and calculate them based on averages but thats dependent on schools not PTCAS.

From the PTCAS website:
GPAs

• PTCAS calculates a standardized set of GPAs to help PT programs evaluate applicants using uniform criteria. PTCAS GPAs may differ from those calculated on your transcripts due to the grade standardization process. Programs may choose to use the PTCAS GPAs or calculate their own.
  
  PTCAS GPAs Include…
  • Courses only from regionally accredited colleges and universities in the United States
  • Repeated courses
  • Study abroad courses, if reported on a US transcript

GPA Calculation Rules
Repeated courses are included in GPAs. All repeated courses are included, even if they are later repeated for a higher grade or excluded from the GPA on the transcript.

http://www.ptcas.org/GPA/

 

[Skyris]

however for prereq GPA you only designate one attempt per prereq so PTCAS calculates the prereq GPA based on highest attempt. Obviously schools can look at your transcripts and calculate them based on averages but thats dependent on schools not PTCAS.

PTCAS asks you to:

https://portal.ptcas.org/ptcasHelpPages/instructions/academic-history/u-s-coursework/

• If you repeated a course, match ALL attempts to the appropriate prerequisite.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure your self-reported pre-req GPA isn't even what gets calculated and reported to institutions. They get their own pre-req GPA based on their requirements. I don't think you stand to gain from gaming your self-reported pre-req GPA to be as high as possible by ignoring PTCAS's request to mark all prerequisite attempts as such.

 

[RSMohamed]

PTCAS asks you to:



Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure your self-reported pre-req GPA isn't even what gets calculated and reported to institutions. They get their own pre-req GPA based on their requirements. I don't think you stand to gain from gaming your self-reported pre-req GPA to be as high as possible by ignoring PTCAS's request to mark all prerequisite attempts as such.

Hmm I guess I never read the requirements super carefully. Shame I'm ultra competitive kind of hurts my pride to be wrong, but I guess it's better to have the correct info out there.

 

[One Punch Man]

Yeah these guys are right, retakes are averaged for prerequisite GPA.

The loophole I'm pointing out is to take a more difficult version of the class (calculus-based physics as a "retake" for algebra-based physics.) If you do this, you can designate the harder course to fulfill the prerequisite requirement. Of course this means that you will have to make sure you get A's 😉.