Public Shaming of Soul-less Pain Peer-to-Peer Reviewers...

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I’m not the beast you seek to slay 😉

I do a few p2p per week for work comp which forces me to keep abreast of their guidelines and don’t participate in the madness you describe. I’m just playing devils advocate here.
 
I’m not the beast you seek to slay 😉

I do a few p2p per week for work comp which forces me to keep abreast of their guidelines and don’t participate in the madness you describe. I’m just playing devils advocate here.

there are way way too many zombie wcomp cases that need to be closed and obnoxious P2P is fine by me for those cases
 
there are way way too many zombie wcomp cases that need to be closed and obnoxious P2P is fine by me for those cases

What role should pain specialty societies have at establishing standards of professional conduct for P2P? Who is qualified to be a peer to a pain physician and under what circumstance and when?

i.e. if I have to explain to my "peer" reviewer the difference between a "facet joint" and a "facet MBB nerve" I will have very little confidence that reviewer is truly my peer of equal standing.
 
I had a peer to peer request today. Funny I put in the order for an US guided block like 4 to 5 weeks ago. Procedures this afternoon and my 3 PM pt is late so I hustle back to my desk and call...I get the front desk of some other doctor's office. That is after the 30 sec message telling me to call 911 for an emergency and head to the nearest ER. Finally get a human and the name is wrong on the pt so we had to fix that. It is now 10 min I'm on the phone and my 3PM is already on the table waiting now. The P2P MD isn't available by the way, but she will call me back ASAP. I still haven't heard from her (3 hrs and 50 min later as I type this) bc I'm on her time not mine. I'm taking a dump right now so if she calls now I'll have to turn off the fan bc my voice will be echoing and she's going to hear the fan and it will be awkward. In that case I'll have blown up this bathroom and my family may get upset.

Sort of like in August of 2018 when I ordered a LSB on a pt with clear CRPS and was denied and a P2P was requested. They finally called me on Dec 21 (Friday) and said the P2P had to be completed by the end of that day. I'm going on Christmas vacation that afternoon so I call them and leave a message. They returned that call on Dec 27 while me and my family were staying at my mother's house and I was in the act of shaving. The guy on the phone said, "Well, seems like everything we need is documented and in order...Don't see why this was denied. We can approve it."
This was on my desk this morning. Called. Placed on hold for several minutes. “Dr so and so is with a patient. Can he call you back?” Yeah, I’ll hold my breath on that one.
258797
 
Can we make this a thread that goes on forever and eventually publish it and make a book out of this bs
 
This was on my desk this morning. Called. Placed on hold for several minutes. “Dr so and so is with a patient. Can he call you back?” Yeah, I’ll hold my breath on that one.
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Ask your "peer" how they feel about this Supreme Court Judgment out of MN. "Skin in the game."


"The Court’s decision to rely on a broader legal theory of “foreseeability” represents a troubling change that puts Minnesota in the minority of states that do not require the existence of a physician-patient relationship for a malpractice action. This change may expose physicians and other health professionals to malpractice risk in a variety of actions that were previously protected, including unbilled consultations. Although the ruling puts Minnesota physicians in uncertain legal territory, it does not change the underlying duty that physicians have to their patients and, more generally, to maintain a professional and ethical medical practice."
 
This was on my desk this morning. Called. Placed on hold for several minutes. “Dr so and so is with a patient. Can he call you back?” Yeah, I’ll hold my breath on that one.
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LMAO at "By 12 PM."

That color of a counter sucks when you got a roach on it. Our old house had a similar kitchen counter and if a roach got on it good luck...
 
Update...My previous post about an US guided nerve block and me having to call asap and no one returned my call. I got a call back 3 days later on my voicemail talking about a "personal nerve block," and I had to return that call by the following AM.

A "personal nerve block," not a peroneal nerve block.
 
Update...My previous post about an US guided nerve block and me having to call asap and no one returned my call. I got a call back 3 days later on my voicemail talking about a "personal nerve block," and I had to return that call by the following AM.

A "personal nerve block," not a peroneal nerve block.

S/he's clearly your peer...
 
I had a review by a pharmacist. Denied Nucynta until patient tried and failed: “hydrocodone, Hysingla, oxycodone, OxyContin, hydromorphone, morphine, Avinza.” And she specifically said all of them needed to be tried and failed.

I asked for her name and license number and she refused to give it to me. Said all she was going to tell me was her name was Sarah W. From MagellanRx and refused to give me any further information or a call reference number.
 
I had a review by a pharmacist. Denied Nucynta until patient tried and failed: “hydrocodone, Hysingla, oxycodone, OxyContin, hydromorphone, morphine, Avinza.” And she specifically said all of them needed to be tried and failed.

I asked for her name and license number and she refused to give it to me. Said all she was going to tell me was her name was Sarah W. From MagellanRx and refused to give me any further information or a call reference number.

Completely un-accountable. But, people on this forum and in real life will defend their doing this kind of work as selflessly serving the “common good.”
 
I had a review by a pharmacist. Denied Nucynta until patient tried and failed: “hydrocodone, Hysingla, oxycodone, OxyContin, hydromorphone, morphine, Avinza.” And she specifically said all of them needed to be tried and failed.

I asked for her name and license number and she refused to give it to me. Said all she was going to tell me was her name was Sarah W. From MagellanRx and refused to give me any further information or a call reference number.
We need to out this bsss , keep posting
 
I had a review by a pharmacist. Denied Nucynta until patient tried and failed: “hydrocodone, Hysingla, oxycodone, OxyContin, hydromorphone, morphine, Avinza.” And she specifically said all of them needed to be tried and failed.

I asked for her name and license number and she refused to give it to me. Said all she was going to tell me was her name was Sarah W. From MagellanRx and refused to give me any further information or a call reference number.

What is the role of a human being? Just let a pt approach a kiosk, answer a few touchscreen Q, and the machine will dispense the next medicine on the algorithm. No reason for a human physician.
 
Had to explain to a “peer” that placing an SCS trial lead in the thoracic spine is required to cover leg pain. He had a real tough time understanding why I was ordering an MRI of the thoracic spine and why the patient didn’t undergo PT for the thoracic spine yet. Meanwhile I have an explicit template documenting all of this along with rationale. And I basically read it to him.

MRI approved!
 
Had to explain to a “peer” that placing an SCS trial lead in the thoracic spine is required to cover leg pain. He had a real tough time understanding why I was ordering an MRI of the thoracic spine and why the patient didn’t undergo PT for the thoracic spine yet. Meanwhile I have an explicit template documenting all of this along with rationale. And I basically read it to him.

MRI approved!

Care to share the template?
 
Had to explain to a “peer” that placing an SCS trial lead in the thoracic spine is required to cover leg pain. He had a real tough time understanding why I was ordering an MRI of the thoracic spine and why the patient didn’t undergo PT for the thoracic spine yet. Meanwhile I have an explicit template documenting all of this along with rationale. And I basically read it to him.

MRI approved!

Sometimes you have break it down to a very, very, very basic level for your "peers."
 
Should non-fellowship trained Anesthesia/PM&R/Neuro be allowed to do Pain peer-to-peer reviews on ACGME-fellowship trained pain doctors?

Should non-regen med MD/DO's be allowed to do regen med peer-to-peers?

"It just makes sense - authorizations should be denied after review by a PHYSICIAN in the same field and NOT after a review by a medical director without the same specialty training or by a non-physician staff member simply following a one-size-fits-all algorithm. We can do better to make patient care personalized and more valid within a specialty of care."

Compelling argument in video below...

 
for the first statement, i agree.

your second statement unfortunately implies that regenerative medicine is approved and accepted therapy. you do not need a regen certified doctor to deny treatment that is not covered by insurance.
 
for the first statement, i agree.

your second statement unfortunately implies that regenerative medicine is approved and accepted therapy. you do not need a regen certified doctor to deny treatment that is not covered by insurance.

it is approved and accepted for certain indications.
 
for the first statement, i agree.

your second statement unfortunately implies that regenerative medicine is approved and accepted therapy. you do not need a regen certified doctor to deny treatment that is not covered by insurance.

Covered by worker's comp, MVA, and self-insured employer health plans on a selected basis. It will never by covered by 'Caid or 'Care. Equity issues. That's life I suppose.
 
Covered by worker's comp, MVA, and self-insured employer health plans on a selected basis. It will never by covered by 'Caid or 'Care. Equity issues. That's life I suppose.

Not equity. Lack of data. Regenexx needs to torch all the chiro and schmucks selling your magic beans if there is any hope for legitimate research to allow indications based on data. Nana nana booboo. Stick a needle in your eye.
 
Covered by worker's comp, MVA, and self-insured employer health plans on a selected basis. It will never by covered by 'Caid or 'Care. Equity issues. That's life I suppose.
technically, MVA - but that is because No Fault works completely differently than any other "insurance". moo shu medicine and treatments such as massage, reiki, and daily chiro is also covered.

WC is state dependent. some states have established guidelines of what is "approved" and does not require independent review. to the best of my knowledge, none of the NY WC guidelines allow regenerative medicine for the established conditions of work related back, neck, shoulder, elbow, carpal tunnel or knee. you can ask for an "MG2" or review, but that is unlikely to generate positive responses.
 
Hey, more fine work by our "peers" doing reviews. Anyone doing this kind of garbage work should be ashamed of themselves. Really, how can you look at yourself in the mirror??


"How would you decide on your own when to actually review the medical records versus relying on what the nurse at Aetna had prepared for you?" Glovsky said.
"What percentage?" Iinuma asked.
Glovsky: "I mean, like, did you ever look at medical records or basically whenever --"
Iinuma: "No, I did not."
Glovsky: "OK. So as part of your custom and practice in making decisions, you would rely on what the nurse had prepared for you?"
Iinuma: "Correct."
Glovsky: "Instead of actually looking at yourself the medical records?"
Iinuma: "Correct."
Glovsky: "And was that throughout your -- your years at Aetna?"
Iinuma: "My tenure, yes."
Glovsky: "Was that how you were trained to do it when you joined -- first joined Aetna?"
Iinuma: "To my recollection, yes."
 
Doin a p2p tomorrow for an scs trial as my patient has never had back surgery but failed literally everything ...any tips? Blue
 
Doin a p2p tomorrow for an scs trial as my patient has never had back surgery but failed literally everything ...any tips? Blue

Yes. Ask them 1) Base specialty. 2) Fellowship status. 3) Do they do trials or perms? 4) Have they ever attended a NANS meeting. 5) State they are licensed in and License #.
 
My favorite Q - So what is the next step?
 
Yes. Ask them 1) Base specialty. 2) Fellowship status. 3) Do they do trials or perms? 4) Have they ever attended a NANS meeting. 5) State they are licensed in and License #.
And wat do I do with this info once they give it to me?
 
Asked for repeat S1 ESI for stenosis patient. Last one was 2017. Insurance denied as last MRI was 2016. They requested new MRI prior to injection.
For stenosis. Non-surgical candidate.
 
agreed. stupid rule.

accompanied by "MRI denied because conservative care - epidural injections - not tried."
Still my favorite denial was “has not done 6 weeks PT over the last month.”
 
Had to have a peer-to-peer with a "chiropractic radiologist" today about the medical necessity for a lumbar MRI on an old guy after a fall. I don't even know where to begin...

I'm debating calling you a liar but you don't seem like one and this sadly isn't hard to believe.
 
Had to have a peer-to-peer with a "chiropractic radiologist" today about the medical necessity for a lumbar MRI on an old guy after a fall. I don't even know where to begin...

This has to be a joke. Did u ask for his/her credentials?
 
Had to have a peer-to-peer with a "chiropractic radiologist" today about the medical necessity for a lumbar MRI on an old guy after a fall. I don't even know where to begin...


Wait, how is that one allowed? Should the state medical association be notified about that?
 
Wait, how is that one allowed? Should the state medical association be notified about that?

We (MD/DO's) just sit around and let this happen. The insurance companies know that they can employ any F*cktard with a quasi-medical degree for "administrative review" and the world goes on.

We can support legislation requiring that "peer" review is actually done by peers.
 
We (MD/DO's) just sit around and let this happen. The insurance companies know that they can employ any F*cktard with a quasi-medical degree for "administrative review" and the world goes on.

We can support legislation requiring that "peer" review is actually done by peers.
Soon it will be a nurse practitioner “radiologist” who is denying your MRIs...that’s when the ****s gonna hit the fan
 
Soon it will be a nurse practitioner “radiologist” who is denying your MRIs...that’s when the ****s gonna hit the fan

How’s that any different than a chiro radiologist denying it? **** already hitting the fan.
 
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