Publishing/writing questions (undergraduate)

[neuronstudies]

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Just wondering how the process of including undergraduate students as authors/including undergrads in writing manuscripts usually works?

Edit: Deleted most of original post, bc I realized I included some identifiable details.

 

[WisNeuro]

This varies quite a bit by lab, both due to culture, and how much is coming out in terms of publications. I can only speak to my experience. Publication opportunities were generally available only to undergrads who went above and beyond their lab duties and also expressed a lot of interest in certain projects. Best way is to volunteer for tasks, ask if there are tasks that you can learn of increasing complexity, and engage in discussions about the research in lab meetings. Regarding the engagement with discussions, be informed, read up on the extant lit so you have a basis for your ideas. Impress the POI and grad students there and there may be a higher chance at pub options.

 

[jdawg2017]

This varies quite a bit by lab, both due to culture, and how much is coming out in terms of publications. I can only speak to my experience. Publication opportunities were generally available only to undergrads who went above and beyond their lab duties and also expressed a lot of interest in certain projects. Best way is to volunteer for tasks, ask if there are tasks that you can learn of increasing complexity, and engage in discussions about the research in lab meetings. Regarding the engagement with discussions, be informed, read up on the extant lit so you have a basis for your ideas. Impress the POI and grad students there and there may be a higher chance at pub options.

I would ditto all of this and also add if your college has a undergrad thesis project, do it. That basically is a great way to get a working draft of a first-author publication. Of course, like @WisNeuro said, the best way to get these opportunities is to express interest directly in writing (as well as express interest in a desired future in research).

 

[ExpertHoopJumper]

Just wondering how the process of including undergraduate students as authors/including undergrads in writing manuscripts usually works?

In my lab, I helped with a study back in the fall and had to stop for a while b/c I had mono (participants were patients at a hospital). I recently helped finish up data collection and was surprised to learn that another undergrad, who joined the project much later and did the same tasks as me, was told by a grad student during the lab meeting that they could help write a manuscript. I wasn't expecting any of the undergrads on the project to have this opportunity b/c most of what we did was data entry. For this situation, I was wondering if it's okay to ask if I could help with writing, and if so how to approach this?

In another study, I helped run participants for a year (finding suitable participants was difficult, but I was available whenever help was needed). We only have lab meetings every few months so I wasn't aware that the grad student was even done data collection and ready to analyze the results. One student joined the lab two months ago and is being given the chance to help write up some of the results for publication.

I understand that I'm not entitled to get a publication just because I helped run participants, but it seems that other people in the lab are doing less and are getting these opportunities, and I feel like I'm missing something. I was wondering if anyone had a different perspective on this, and also what I could do to get more involved?

I don't think it would be out-of-bounds or inappropriate or whatever to simply speak with the grad student and the faculty about joining the manuscript prep. You shouldn't compare your contributions to that of the other RA. Just tell them you enjoyed assisting in data acquisition and would also enjoy learning how to write it up. I would guess that the undergrads who are receiving these opportunities asked the grad students for them. Be bold, yo!

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

I agree with the above and wanted to add that it’s possible the grad student and PI don’t know you want that level of involvement. Not every undergrad wants to be involved in the manuscript process, so I don’t think it’s assumed. I echo the above about professionally speaking up about your interests and goals (include long-term goals like grad school if applicable, they may be able to help). Another option is working on a poster perhaps?

 

[deleted343839]

I agree with others' suggestions to talk directly with your lab supervisor about opportunities to be involved in posters or manuscripts. You might have to stick your neck out and ask to be considered for such opportunities. Most research labs are not environments that reward keeping a low profile, and this might explain the mismatch between your effort and your opportunities. You mentioned having been out for a while due to illness, and sometimes that raises flags (fair or not) for reliability or well meaning concerns about your health and what you are able to take on. You may just need to be a bit more visible and assertive at this point. Of course, if you are friendly with other RAs in the lab, it's worth asking them how they managed to land an authorship, too.

 

[tr]

Not to be disheartening, but sometimes opportunities offered to undergrads or RAs are commensurate with their abilities.

Personally I would only offer a writing opportunity to someone I know can write. Otherwise it's more work for me to try to fix their word salad than to just write it myself. Knowing nothing else about you of course, the fact that you say others are being given opportunities more quickly than you makes me wonder if you are maybe not as self-directed or not as effective at writing as these other people?

But I also agree with MamaPhD that a prolonged absence could easily have put you out of sight and out of mind at the time the project was nearing fruition, and have nothing to do with your actual performance.

As the others here have said, it won't hurt you to ask, and there is a good chance it will help. If you get a positive response, then great. If you get a waffly response though, I would take courage enough to ask for some honest feedback on your performance and suggestions for improvement.

 

[ExpertHoopJumper]

"Not to be disheartening, but. . . " here's something disheartening? lol

Super helpful comment by you, tr.

 

[psych.meout]

"Not to be disheartening, but. . . " here's something disheartening? lol

Super helpful comment by you, tr.

They are prefacing their comment by saying that they don't intend to be disheartening, but their experience of how advanced responsibilities and opportunities are allotted for undergrads may seem disheartening to OP, because it may not be what they want to hear and may indicate that what's happening isn't just some kind of unfair coincidence.

You aren't being helpful with this snarkiness.

 

[neuronstudies]

Thanks for all the helpful responses everyone! I definitely think I could have been more proactive and communicated my intentions/interests better (I was excited just to be involved with such interesting research and didn't realize it could lead to publications or posters at this point). Factors like missing time because I was sick and one of the profs being on sabbatical this past year probably didn't help.

I have mentioned to one of the profs in the past that I wanted to take on more responsibilities, but perhaps I should have been more specific. I don't believe not being effective at writing was an issue, because I've already successfully completed classes focused on writing and research design required for an honours degree at my uni that profs here typically value. However, a reminder to the profs that I have these skills can't hurt! I am going to schedule a meeting with the profs to discuss my goals and interests for the future, and mention my skills and commitment over the past year.

So that will help me in the future, but now I'm wondering if it's a good idea to ask the profs or grad students if I can help with writing on these existing projects, despite some responsibilities already being assigned to other undergrads? I feel kind of nervous asking at this point, because I don't want to seem like I'm asking for too much or have it reflect negatively on me.