Puerto Ricans have low MCAT scores.

[malamia]

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I'm a senior at the university of Puerto Rico and I can't help but notice that everyone around me is scoring <25 on the MCAT, even people with considerably higher GPAs than me (3.55). This has me very worried because I know I need a good MCAT to make up for my sub par GPA. I will obviously study like hell. What do you think is the problem in PR and how do you suggest I overcome it?

I know it may have to do with the language and I don't consider that a huge problem for me. (Even though I took all of my courses in spanish.)

 

[allantois]

Maybe it's a ethnicity/race issue. Maybe hispanic people tend to score poorly on the MCAT.
The same why white people tend to score higher than black people on SAT and IQ tests.

I now officially declare you a TROLL

 

[Avicenna]

.

 

[Holmwood]

I'm a senior at the university of Puerto Rico and I can't help but notice that everyone around me is scoring <25 on the MCAT, even people with considerably higher GPAs than me (3.55). This has me very worried because I know I need a good MCAT to make up for my sub par GPA. I will obviously study like hell. What do you think is the problem in PR and how do you suggest I overcome it?

I know it may have to do with the language and I don't consider that a huge problem for me. (Even though I took all of my courses in spanish.)

It's just language barriers and poor preparation. Just study from MCAT preparation books well, and assess your abilities through AMCAS practice tests.
If you are not getting the score you like, study more.

 

[NandroloneDecanoate]

I now officially declare you a TROLL

Why is this guy a troll? He mentioned stats that are true in life. Can you prove otherwise? It's like saying white kids cannot beat Indian kids in The Spelling Bee. That's actually a fact because they have tried and they just can't do it. Maybe a token white kid may be able to do so (do black kids even compete there?). Also, Indians are a very very small minority in America yet they consistently beat out every other race year by year. Why? Is it something based on IQ or having a talent (just like black people with professional sports and entertainment)? If it is, so what? Why is that such a problem? Also, we are discussing raw data. Not mentioned is the lack of support and funding by their non-chalant parents but then again, it's their fault. Partly race-based, partly lack of hard work and effort, partly disinterest in parenting. If it's unpopular opinion, we should censor that fact? This is the exact reason why the SAT is changing across America. Questions are becoming easier ("evidence-based") and certain sections are being removed (the analogy). Parents can't handle raising their kids because they are busy on Facebook on their iPhones and in class, they are on SnapChat. The small percentage (mostly asian and then the whites) who do put in the effort are ignored while the tests are dumbed down.

Also, isn't Dr. Rey from Dr. 90210 Puerto Rican? He is clearly Latino from what I remember and that guy is a superstar (he looks like one too). Anyhow, the language issue should not be much of a barrier outside of VR because science will be science everywhere. If you see PR's failing, it's a training issue and you guys need better instruction/instructors. Only after you have studied with top performers (teachers who have scored high on the test), and applied yourself using excellent study strategies as an entire race can you then blame it on race itself.

 

[Aerus]

Maybe it's a ethnicity/race issue. Maybe hispanic people tend to score poorly on the MCAT.
The same reasons white people tend to score higher than black people on SAT and IQ tests; idk what those are, cultural? financial?

There definitely is a trend with standardized test scores and race. If you would like to learn more about these trends and theories behind the reasons why we see them, I highly recommend that you take a sociology course.

 

[malamia]

Why is this guy a troll? He mentioned stats that are true in life. Can you prove otherwise? It's like saying white kids cannot beat Indian kids in The Spelling Bee. That's actually a fact because they have tried and they just can't do it. Maybe a token white kid may be able to do so (do black kids even compete there?). Also, Indians are a very very small minority in America yet they consistently beat out every other race year by year. Why? Is it something based on IQ or having a talent (just like black people with professional sports and entertainment)? If it is, so what? Why is that such a problem? Also, we are discussing raw data. Not mentioned is the lack of support and funding by their non-chalant parents but then again, it's their fault. Partly race-based, partly lack of hard work and effort, partly disinterest in parenting. If it's unpopular opinion, we should censor that fact? This is the exact reason why the SAT is changing across America. Questions are becoming easier ("evidence-based") and certain sections are being removed (the analogy). Parents can't handle raising their kids because they are busy on Facebook on their iPhones and in class, they are on SnapChat. The small percentage (mostly asian and then the whites) who do put in the effort are ignored while the tests are dumbed down.

Also, isn't Dr. Rey from Dr. 90210 Puerto Rican? He is clearly Latino from what I remember and that guy is a superstar (he looks like one too). Anyhow, the language issue should not be much of a barrier outside of VR because science will be science everywhere. If you see PR's failing, it's a training issue and you guys need better instruction/instructors. Only after you have studied with top performers (teachers who have scored high on the test), and applied yourself using excellent study strategies as an entire race can you then blame it on race itself.

What study strategy do you suggest? I keep asking myself how my score will be any different from those my peers are obtaining. At this point, anything beyond a 28 seems out of reach. I am usually not this pessimistic but I've never met a person who scored any higher than 27.

 

[Sirphillup]

Why is this guy a troll? He mentioned stats that are true in life. Can you prove otherwise? It's like saying white kids cannot beat Indian kids in The Spelling Bee. That's actually a fact because they have tried and they just can't do it. Maybe a token white kid may be able to do so (do black kids even compete there?). Also, Indians are a very very small minority in America yet they consistently beat out every other race year by year. Why? Is it something based on IQ or having a talent (just like black people with professional sports and entertainment)? If it is, so what? Why is that such a problem? Also, we are discussing raw data. Not mentioned is the lack of support and funding by their non-chalant parents but then again, it's their fault. Partly race-based, partly lack of hard work and effort, partly disinterest in parenting. If it's unpopular opinion, we should censor that fact? This is the exact reason why the SAT is changing across America. Questions are becoming easier ("evidence-based") and certain sections are being removed (the analogy). Parents can't handle raising their kids because they are busy on Facebook on their iPhones and in class, they are on SnapChat. The small percentage (mostly asian and then the whites) who do put in the effort are ignored while the tests are dumbed down.

Also, isn't Dr. Rey from Dr. 90210 Puerto Rican? He is clearly Latino from what I remember and that guy is a superstar (he looks like one too). Anyhow, the language issue should not be much of a barrier outside of VR because science will be science everywhere. If you see PR's failing, it's a training issue and you guys need better instruction/instructors. Only after you have studied with top performers (teachers who have scored high on the test), and applied yourself using excellent study strategies as an entire race can you then blame it on race itself.

When you talk about raw data here, you're not talking about data that necessarily exist in a vacuum. That's the problem with people thinking that scientific facts are necessarily objective truths. The problem with saying that certain races are brighter/have higher IQ/are healthier than others is that such a statement does not account for the social and economic determinants of those things being measured. So, in other words, black and Hispanic students may perform lower on this test or that one, but they often do so because they have less educational opportunities or have difficult stressors at home that may prohibit learning (crime, violence, no parents, etc.). You have to understand that Hispanic people, for example, are part of a new wave of immigrants. They come here, without the language, start over, and struggle financially. That was my family's case, for example.

When people say that certain races are smarter or better than others simply because of an IQ test, which may also unintentionally test culturally specific knowledge within the test, people get upset. And rightly so. Objective data is often not objective data. Just like history that is just about facts and dates is not objective history.

One last point: IQ tests or tests that measure aptitude are sometimes not very great predictors of success. My SAT was very low. I graduated undergrad with a 4.0 gpa. I know a lot of people who significantly outdid their SAT/MCAT and others who did much worse than the score predicted.

 

[ruedjgtc]

There definitely is a trend with standardized test scores and race. If you would like to learn more about these trends and theories behind the reasons why we see them, I highly recommend that you take a sociology course.

It's no wonder the AAMC is starting to emphasize sociology and critical analysis of data on the new MCAT.

 

[malamia]

When you talk about raw data here, you're not talking about data that necessarily exist in a vacuum. That's the problem with people thinking that scientific facts are necessarily objective truths. The problem with saying that certain races are brighter/have higher IQ/are healthier than others is that such a statement does not account for the social and economic determinants of those things being measured. So, in other words, black and Hispanic students may perform lower on this test or that one, but they often do so because they have less educational opportunities or have difficult stressors at home that may prohibit learning (crime, violence, no parents, etc.). You have to understand that Hispanic people, for example, are part of a new wave of immigrants. They come here, without the language, start over, and struggle financially. That was my family's case, for example.

When people say that certain races are smarter or better than others simply because of an IQ test, which may also unintentionally test culturally specific knowledge within the test, people get upset. And rightly so. Objective data is often not objective data. Just like history that is just about facts and dates is not objective history.

One last point: IQ tests or tests that measure aptitude are sometimes not very great predictors of success. My SAT was very low. I graduated undergrad with a 4.0 gpa. I know a lot of people who significantly outdid their SAT/MCAT and others who did much worse than the score predicted.

While I agree with most of what you said, I must add that I'm talking about Puerto Ricans living on the island itself. Most of these stressors do not necessarily apply since we do not deal with immigration related issues. Also, our education system is all spanish, which I personally think is the main issue.

 

[Mad Jack]

Taking the MCAT is hard enough when it's in your native language. I can't imagine taking it in a second language.

 

[DrOne]

I'm Puerto Rican and, honestly I can't answer certainly why we score less on the MCAT. However, I think the language barrier and our bad education system has something to do with it. I scored 23, got into a LCME accredited school and could not be happier. My fellow classmates are smart, competent and, most of them, will make good doctors. The step 1 passing rate is about 90% first times which is pretty impressive considering that, with our MCAT scores, no mainland school would've picked us.

While I do believe the low MCAT issue has to be solved. I don't think its directly affecting us in our medical education, ie. My med school is not easier. I do know a few, about 5 or 6 puertorricans that have scored over 30.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[PREMED1992]

Another thing is expectation - if the average mcat for top schools in the US were 30, you would more than likely see less top scores. Why ? Because who's going to spend more money on test prep - more time trying to get like a 40 in that case when you could score significantly higher than the average with not as much effort. I think you mentally become satisfied with a lower score and would thus be more likely to take the mcat sooner and after less prep ( maybe not for a lot of us neurotic sdn people 🙂). Anyways the point I'm making is that in Puerto Rico language does contribute -( I mean it's not just verbal - mcat to some degree is reading comprehension throughout) but also if great schools in Puerto Rico had an average in the 20s, I can see many people not killing themselves as much to get as high scores.


For the record I think this is partly why the average mcat score is increasing over time. I don't think people are more intelligent now - rather that it's more competitive to get in and everyone is taking more time, using more resources or whatever to get a higher score.

 

[NandroloneDecanoate]

When you talk about raw data here, you're not talking about data that necessarily exist in a vacuum. That's the problem with people thinking that scientific facts are necessarily objective truths. The problem with saying that certain races are brighter/have higher IQ/are healthier than others is that such a statement does not account for the social and economic determinants of those things being measured. So, in other words, black and Hispanic students may perform lower on this test or that one, but they often do so because they have less educational opportunities or have difficult stressors at home that may prohibit learning (crime, violence, no parents, etc.). You have to understand that Hispanic people, for example, are part of a new wave of immigrants. They come here, without the language, start over, and struggle financially. That was my family's case, for example.

When people say that certain races are smarter or better than others simply because of an IQ test, which may also unintentionally test culturally specific knowledge within the test, people get upset. And rightly so. Objective data is often not objective data. Just like history that is just about facts and dates is not objective history.

One last point: IQ tests or tests that measure aptitude are sometimes not very great predictors of success. My SAT was very low. I graduated undergrad with a 4.0 gpa. I know a lot of people who significantly outdid their SAT/MCAT and others who did much worse than the score predicted.

Let me put it this way. How many Asian Indian Mexican Japanese etc. NBA players are there? How many blacks are there? Are you telling me this is not objective? To play at the highest level with the best in the world (remember, the best are brought here from Europe and Africa), the large majority have to be black. How about the NFL? Name a single super star white wide receiver or cornerback. ZERO. None. Yes there are token guys (when Jeremy Lin, a generic guy made headlines in Feb. 2013 in the NBA, it was like God himself came to the earth. Meanwhile black players double what he does ROUTINELY. Today that asian guy is a bench warming scrub in a league of black superstars). There are objective truths right in front of your eyes. Now this sports example is a bit obvious based on raw genetic talent. Schooling is a bit different of course, BUT only to a degree, and facts remain facts about clearly observable data over a period of time. The way I see it is you are given certain tools and raw talents within your DNA pool. If you hit the lottery (the right combination surfaces when the zygote is formed), you won out. What is this pool made from? Your DNA which is based on RACE. Your environment can only support what you are already capable of. There are outliers in every race but the general rules hold true for each set population. If you want to keep playing objective god or neutral scientist, go right ahead while the world passes you (and smacks you) by. I am talking generally, not you, the guy who wrote the above statements. Life is a harsh and cruel place. We use data to make decisions and just because data sounds politically incorrect, it does not mean it's of any less value. I have seen people get burned because they have ignored truths in daily life.

Best bet for Puerto Ricans is to take professional training to ace this exam. That's true for anyone but if you guys are really so far behind, it's worth spending the thousands of dollars for a chance at an incredible future.

 

[Aerus]

Let me put it this way. How many Asian Indian Mexican Japanese etc. NBA players are there? How many blacks are there? Are you telling me this is not objective? To play at the highest level with the best in the world (remember, the best are brought here from Europe and Africa), the large majority have to be black. How about the NFL? Name a single super star white wide receiver or cornerback. ZERO. None. Yes there are token guys (when Jeremy Lin, a generic guy made headlines in Feb. 2013 in the NBA, it was like God himself came to the earth. Meanwhile black players double what he does ROUTINELY. Today that asian guy is a bench warming scrub in a league of black superstars). There are objective truths right in front of your eyes. Now this sports example is a bit obvious based on raw genetic talent. Schooling is a bit different of course, BUT only to a degree, and facts remain facts about clearly observable data over a period of time. The way I see it is you are given certain tools and raw talents within your DNA pool. If you hit the lottery (the right combination surfaces when the zygote is formed), you won out. What is this pool made from? Your DNA which is based on RACE. Your environment can only support what you are already capable of. There are outliers in every race but the general rules hold true for each set population. If you want to keep playing objective god or neutral scientist, go right ahead while the world passes you (and smacks you) by. I am talking generally, not you, the guy who wrote the above statements. Life is a harsh and cruel place. We use data to make decisions and just because data sounds politically incorrect, it does not mean it's of any less value. I have seen people get burned because they have ignored truths in daily life.

Best bet for Puerto Ricans is to take professional training to ace this exam. That's true for anyone but if you guys are really so far behind, it's worth spending the thousands of dollars for a chance at an incredible future.

I hope you are not implying that you believe certain races are inherently more intelligent than others.

 

[NandroloneDecanoate]

No. I am talking about statistics and data. I can find 100 white men who are meth dealers from down south in America and 100 black men who are working professionals. And then vice versa. It's completely random however compiled data isn't. Why was the SAT dumbed down? The analogy section is gone and the question now has evidence-based answers. Essay is optional. Why is this being done? To appease whom? Lowering the bar because of, wait for it...da nuh nuh, da nuh nuh (sportscenter jingle)...data and statistics.

"I am a teenager who must be given enough time to log onto Facebook on my after school hours and also use SnapChat in class at will. For this reason, you must dumb down the SAT exam. Who has the time to put so many hours into studying for a test, and to add insult to injury, to do it for 3 months? Wah wah wah, I am from the entitled generation and I deserve whatever I want. Got that? Good. Now go change the SAT, pronto."

 

[Sirphillup]

Let me put it this way. How many Asian Indian Mexican Japanese etc. NBA players are there? How many blacks are there? Are you telling me this is not objective? To play at the highest level with the best in the world (remember, the best are brought here from Europe and Africa), the large majority have to be black. How about the NFL? Name a single super star white wide receiver or cornerback. ZERO. None. Yes there are token guys (when Jeremy Lin, a generic guy made headlines in Feb. 2013 in the NBA, it was like God himself came to the earth. Meanwhile black players double what he does ROUTINELY. Today that asian guy is a bench warming scrub in a league of black superstars). There are objective truths right in front of your eyes. Now this sports example is a bit obvious based on raw genetic talent. Schooling is a bit different of course, BUT only to a degree, and facts remain facts about clearly observable data over a period of time. The way I see it is you are given certain tools and raw talents within your DNA pool. If you hit the lottery (the right combination surfaces when the zygote is formed), you won out. What is this pool made from? Your DNA which is based on RACE. Your environment can only support what you are already capable of. There are outliers in every race but the general rules hold true for each set population. If you want to keep playing objective god or neutral scientist, go right ahead while the world passes you (and smacks you) by. I am talking generally, not you, the guy who wrote the above statements. Life is a harsh and cruel place. We use data to make decisions and just because data sounds politically incorrect, it does not mean it's of any less value. I have seen people get burned because they have ignored truths in daily life.

Best bet for Puerto Ricans is to take professional training to ace this exam. That's true for anyone but if you guys are really so far behind, it's worth spending the thousands of dollars for a chance at an incredible future.

Yea, you may be able to count the number of Puerto Ricans that perform poorly on the mcat or the number of black nfl players. That's very different from assessing the reasons as to why these numbers are that way. The flaw in what you are saying is that you're taking DNA (genetics) which is merely correlated to performance and saying that DNA results in these numbers. You're taking data out of context and that is not objective at all.

Also, studies have shown that results predicted by these "objective tests" can be improved upon significantly when subjects are placed in stimulating environments. They've done this with rats in laboratories and with human beings.

I know the world is cruel and I know a lot of people underestimate others because of age, race, disability or other status of difference. Just because reality is like that does not mean it is right, objective, or fair. Some of the assumptions, arguments and conclusions in this thread need to be questioned for our own improvement as a society. That's the only truth I submit to here.

 

[Lamel]

No. I am talking about statistics and data. I can find 100 white men who are meth dealers from down south in America and 100 black men who are working professionals. And then vice versa. It's completely random however compiled data isn't. Why was the SAT dumbed down? The analogy section is gone and the question now has evidence-based answers. Essay is optional. Why is this being done? To appease whom? Lowering the bar because of, wait for it...da nuh nuh, da nuh nuh (sportscenter jingle)...data and statistics.

"I am a teenager who must be given enough time to log onto Facebook on my after school hours and also use SnapChat in class at will. For this reason, you must dumb down the SAT exam. Who has the time to put so many hours into studying for a test, and to add insult to injury, to do it for 3 months? Wah wah wah, I am from the entitled generation and I deserve whatever I want. Got that? Good. Now go change the SAT, pronto."

I don't know where you are getting all this from, but this is what you sound like:

 

[Aerus]

No. I am talking about statistics and data. I can find 100 white men who are meth dealers from down south in America and 100 black men who are working professionals. And then vice versa. It's completely random however compiled data isn't. Why was the SAT dumbed down? The analogy section is gone and the question now has evidence-based answers. Essay is optional. Why is this being done? To appease whom? Lowering the bar because of, wait for it...da nuh nuh, da nuh nuh (sportscenter jingle)...data and statistics.

"I am a teenager who must be given enough time to log onto Facebook on my after school hours and also use SnapChat in class at will. For this reason, you must dumb down the SAT exam. Who has the time to put so many hours into studying for a test, and to add insult to injury, to do it for 3 months? Wah wah wah, I am from the entitled generation and I deserve whatever I want. Got that? Good. Now go change the SAT, pronto."

I don't think I can have an intelligent conversation about this with you if you can't differentiate between performance on a test and innate intelligence. And using a hypothetical scenario as evidence? I think we're done lol.

 

[Sirphillup]

Let's remember to relax here, folks. Maybe some people are just trolling this thread.

 

[Aerus]

Let's remember to relax here, folks. Maybe some people are just trolling this thread.

If that's the case, frankly I'm not impressed. I've seen far better.