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anaesthetic said:
You people are weird, man. I have no qualms about pushing the patient when needed, whether it be a regular stretcher or an ICU bed with two IV poles, 16 pump channels, four transducers, an ECMO circuit, and an Impella in tow. If I can do that and manage a complex, dying patient at the same time with literally zero safety issues ever, I think people in general can push a stretcher without complaining about needing to monitor a spontaneously breathing patient going to PACU three feet down the hall.

If I have help, sure, by all means. If I don’t, well, let’s just take care of the patient and get them where they need to go. If more hands are needed, then I’ll wait for help. No need to make a grand gesture about how I am too much of a physician anesthesiologist male doctor man to lay hands on the stretcher like the help.
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It’s never about your ability whether you can do it or not. I am sure you are capable. It’s more about what if some **** happens, and people throwing you under the bus or using some bull**** “policy” to fuk you over.

Just the other day, I was “talked to” by a white male circulator who is 20 years of my senior, for giving sedation to a 20 some year old before he talked to her. The talk started with “per hospital policy….”

Sure. I will do no more or do less than what the “hospital policy” says then.
 
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anaesthetic said:
You people are weird, man. I have no qualms about pushing the patient when needed, whether it be a regular stretcher or an ICU bed with two IV poles, 16 pump channels, four transducers, an ECMO circuit, and an Impella in tow. If I can do that and manage a complex, dying patient at the same time with literally zero safety issues ever, I think people in general can push a stretcher without complaining about needing to monitor a spontaneously breathing patient going to PACU three feet down the hall.

If I have help, sure, by all means. If I don’t, well, let’s just take care of the patient and get them where they need to go. If more hands are needed, then I’ll wait for help. No need to make a grand gesture about how I am too much of a physician anesthesiologist male doctor man to lay hands on the stretcher like the help.
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That's how it starts. Then suddenly you're responsible for doing all the ivs, drawing and delivering labs, transporting the patient in the middle of the night when you have other things to do

Are you going to start pushing the mop too because people don't feel like doing their jobs? Circulator nurse is by far the easiest nursing job out there.
 
IMGASMD said:
It’s never about your ability whether you can do it or not. I am sure you are capable. It’s more about what if some **** happens, and people throwing you under the bus or using some bull**** “policy” to fuk you over.

Just the other day, I was “talked to” by a white male circulator who is 20 years of my senior, for giving sedation to a 20 some year old before he talked to her. The talk started with “per hospital policy….”

Sure. I will do no more or do less than what the “hospital policy” says then.
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A lot of times, nurses pull "hospital policy" out of their ass.
 
IMGASMD said:
It’s never about your ability whether you can do it or not. I am sure you are capable. It’s more about what if some **** happens, and people throwing you under the bus or using some bull**** “policy” to fuk you over.

Just the other day, I was “talked to” by a white male circulator who is 20 years of my senior, for giving sedation to a 20 some year old before he talked to her. The talk started with “per hospital policy….”

Sure. I will do no more or do less than what the “hospital policy” says then.
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Exactly. I had a student in my room the other day. The traveling circulator was more than happy to let the student push the stretcher all the way to PACU - damn circulator was at least 30 feet ahead of us. We had a chat after we dropped off the patient. The circulator needs to be with the patient until they're dropped off in PACU. I asked the student was she paying attention to steering the stretcher or watching the patient. She was concentrating on not hitting anything walking through the crowded hallway. Lesson learned.
 
coffeebythelake said:
A lot of times, nurses pull "hospital policy" out of their ass.
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I always ask if they can find the policy for me, because I also want to understand and abide by it. I do it in a non-rude way…. They’re often sincerely just trying to follow what they think the policy is.
 
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Never found this unicorn practice where others would push the stretcher into the room. Always with a circulator or surgical resident.

One place I worked at, the nurses would place monitors on the patient which was awesome to free me up a couple minutes but otherwise nowhere else did that.

Whenever I ask about OR policy, I speak to the charge nurse. Deer caught in headlights. I ask for written policy and told they will get back to me, usually in the form of them contacting members of my department saying I have questions.
 
I don’t push the bed when there’s help. I look for jobs specifically where I don’t have to do the heavy labor. Not that I cant, I just don’t want to. I don’t want to put more strains on my body than I have to. You don’t see surgeons or proceduralists pushing the bed.
 
GassYous said:
That's how it starts. Then suddenly you're responsible for doing all the ivs, drawing and delivering labs, transporting the patient in the middle of the night when you have other things to do

Are you going to start pushing the mop too because people don't feel like doing their jobs? Circulator nurse is by far the easiest nursing job out there.
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I knew a spineless anesthesiologist who was proud that he would often mop the room. He thought/stated that he would do anything to pitch in to keep the room moving.

There's a sucker born every minute.
 
kidthor said:
I knew a spineless anesthesiologist who was proud that he would often mop the room. He thought/stated that he would do anything to pitch in to keep the room moving.

There's a sucker born every minute.
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maybe he is paid by the day, and has somewhere he wants to be
get his cases done and then GTFO
waiting around for inefficient people can be very exhausting
 
GassYous said:
That's how it starts. Then suddenly you're responsible for doing all the ivs, drawing and delivering labs, transporting the patient in the middle of the night when you have other things to do

Are you going to start pushing the mop too because people don't feel like doing their jobs? Circulator nurse is by far the easiest nursing job out there.
Click to expand...

We’re really going with the slippery slope argument? Maybe it’s a cultural/regional thing. We push stretchers here from preop to OR. Techs push ICU beds (usually). If there are no staff available, I’ll push it if able/safe. This has been true at most hospitals I’ve been to (>10).

And yes, our circulators have picked up a mop before instead of waiting 45 minutes for techs to free up. I’ve turned over my own room before. We’d much rather keep the room going than act like we’re too good for it or pretend like mopping will be on the agenda tomorrow because we did it today. Get over yourselves.

kidthor said:
I knew a spineless anesthesiologist who was proud that he would often mop the room. He thought/stated that he would do anything to pitch in to keep the room moving.

There's a sucker born every minute.
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Eh, I can respect that. I know a couple of mediocre anesthesiologists who think pushing a stretcher or other menial tasks is insulting to their socioeconomic standing.
 
kidthor said:
I knew a spineless anesthesiologist who was proud that he would often mop the room. He thought/stated that he would do anything to pitch in to keep the room moving.

There's a sucker born every minute.
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Maybe he has shares in the ASC so every case they can cram in a day is money in his pocket?
 
Would we think this is OK in any other industry? Do we want the airline pilots serving drinks while flying (which is kind of like us pushing a stretcher while managing the patient) or do we want flight attendants refueling the plane? Do you want your lawyer to take our your trash?

For whatever twisted reason we accept a lot more nonsense in healthcare than they do in other industries... The reason is that we'll do it for free without complaining and without any collective action. In that sense I kind of respect those NYC nurses who won't draw blood - they at least draw a hard line on what's in their lane and what's not.

I personally don't have a problem with an occasional work-around for efficiency safe, but healthcare normalizes workarounds and the performance of other people's jobs (for free). Magically the administrators, of which there are vast armies, are never available to put in a hand. I'm sure Brandi McBrandison MHA can push a bed down a hall. But she's in a lunch meeting and then at home by 3pm while you're on a call doing three jobs on top of keeping the patient alive.
 
GassYous said:
Yeah you'd think that

I've lived it, mr slippery slope obviously hasnt
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Even phlebotomist have excuses…. Patient refusal is my favorite. Unable to draw from central lines.

Then it’s the “rule” that all patients needs an working IV on transfer, even if they haven’t received any IV meds for weeks. (Vent unit, so trached and Peged). I’ve sent many out with 24G, because nurses can’t/won’t do it. “I’ve tried 3 weeks ago, he was a difficult stick…..”.

I was over the moon when I came to my most recent job… during my interview, I even made a comment that the circulators actually bring the patients to the room, without anesthesiologists saying anything.

Last observation, if it’s a mixed environment, with anesthesiologists and Crnas doing cases. There is some “resentment” from circulators. Since I think during their anesthesia school training, they still believe they’re nurses (until they’re fighting for independent practice… then they’re just equal to physicians), and needs to be “helpful”. I go and get ICU patients. Not because they need someone to push stretchers, because they need an airway and critical care expert. Speaking of which, I don’t remember any time during my training or out in practice, ever seeing an ICU attending pushing stretchers.
 
IMGASMD said:
Even phlebotomist have excuses…. Patient refusal is my favorite. Unable to draw from central lines.

Then it’s the “rule” that all patients needs an working IV on transfer, even if they haven’t received any IV meds for weeks. (Vent unit, so trached and Peged). I’ve sent many out with 24G, because nurses can’t/won’t do it. “I’ve tried 3 weeks ago, he was a difficult stick…..”.

I was over the moon when I came to my most recent job… during my interview, I even made a comment that the circulators actually bring the patients to the room, without anesthesiologists saying anything.

Last observation, if it’s a mixed environment, with anesthesiologists and Crnas doing cases. There is some “resentment” from circulators. Since I think during their anesthesia school training, they still believe they’re nurses (until they’re fighting for independent practice… then they’re just equal to physicians), and needs to be “helpful”. I go and get ICU patients. Not because they need someone to push stretchers, because they need an airway and critical care expert. Speaking of which, I don’t remember any time during my training or out in practice, ever seeing an ICU attending pushing stretchers.
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Yeah, I wonder if anesthesia being expected to do mundane non-critical transport is a vestige/ consequence of CRNAs practicing in the US.

AFAIK, the idea that anaesthetists (rather than nurses) in other countries would have to transport their own patients to the induction room / theatre is absurd.
 
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