PYXIS input

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

tussionex

Pharmacist
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
698
Reaction score
6
i am a pharmacist working on a house-wide pyxis implementation that is slowly creeping it's way to the OR.
we are still determing the best way to handle our current anesthesia "packs" [fent, versed, morphine, maybe some alfenta, ketamine] process when we switch to pyxis

what do you guys use in your respective institutions? what do you love/hate?

thanks for your help!

Members don't see this ad.
 
i am a pharmacist working on a house-wide pyxis implementation that is slowly creeping it's way to the OR.
we are still determing the best way to handle our current anesthesia "packs" [fent, versed, morphine, maybe some alfenta, ketamine] process when we switch to pyxis

what do you guys use in your respective institutions? what do you love/hate?

thanks for your help!


Likes:

I've used the sub-menus to create my personal kits for little MAC, big MAC, routine GETA, etc, and also a CABG kit. That way I don't have to request each individual drug ... I just hit the appropriate kit button and the machine dispenses each drug listed in that particular kit.

Dislikes:

1. getting the blue screen of death when the almighty pyxis decides to reboot at the worst possible time.

2. our chief pharmacist making the decision to exclude circulator RNs from narcotic-level access. They can check out local and abx, but not narcs. Really handy when I've unexpectedly run out of fent and no one from anesthesia is free to get more for me. (Same applies to pump perfusionists being excluded from pyxis access, since they're not hospital employees. ) Really bad management decisions.

3. We access the pyxis by log-on ID, then fingerprint. Occasionally my Reynauds prevents the pyxis from recognizing my fingerprint. Really came in handy at 0200 recently on a crash C/sec when I couldn't get midaz or fent (thank goodness the sux, diprivan, and other non-narcs are already drawn up in the c/section room -- JCAHO be damned) and neither could my circulator get them for me (see para 2, above).

Bottom line: after considering all the positives and negatives, I believe the pyxis is an impediment to good patient care. Of course, all the bean counters care about is capturing charges and the ability to have tight inventory control.
 
We check out all our narcs individually for each case. A real pain until you get used to it, but now it's just part of the routine.

Trin's problems are unfortunate. We expect an RN to get additional narcs for us if we need them. And we're not hospital employees, but we have pyxis access.

BTW - our pyxis is in the pre-op area and PACU. We have separate anesthesia drug trays in the OR's that are in secure carts. Under no circumstances would we have an in-OR pyxis. Way too much money, way too much wasted time. The pyxis sales rep made a pretty hard sell for having it actually in the OR, but we didn't even come close to considering it.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
We have a Pyxis in each OR by the ventilator with pretty much everything we need in it, and take out whatever we need before or during the case. I don't see how it is wasted time once you become deft with getting what you need out of it. We log in (name/fingerprint) at the beginning and it's open, except for the narcs, but those are readily available with two touches on the screen. I guess we're being spoiled.
 
Likes:

I've used the sub-menus to create my personal kits for little MAC, big MAC, routine GETA, etc, and also a CABG kit. That way I don't have to request each individual drug ... I just hit the appropriate kit button and the machine dispenses each drug listed in that particular kit.

Dislikes:

1. getting the blue screen of death when the almighty pyxis decides to reboot at the worst possible time.

2. our chief pharmacist making the decision to exclude circulator RNs from narcotic-level access. They can check out local and abx, but not narcs. Really handy when I've unexpectedly run out of fent and no one from anesthesia is free to get more for me. (Same applies to pump perfusionists being excluded from pyxis access, since they're not hospital employees. ) Really bad management decisions.

3. We access the pyxis by log-on ID, then fingerprint. Occasionally my Reynauds prevents the pyxis from recognizing my fingerprint. Really came in handy at 0200 recently on a crash C/sec when I couldn't get midaz or fent (thank goodness the sux, diprivan, and other non-narcs are already drawn up in the c/section room -- JCAHO be damned) and neither could my circulator get them for me (see para 2, above).

Bottom line: after considering all the positives and negatives, I believe the pyxis is an impediment to good patient care. Of course, all the bean counters care about is capturing charges and the ability to have tight inventory control.

thanks, everyone, for your input!

- no one likes the blue screen of death, least of all me!

- re: the circulators/perfusionists and access....scary! if they are a nurse, they should have access, especially in a high acuity area such as the OR. it might be a grey area with respect to non-hospital perfusionists [ours are hospital employees], but they can be allowed access to the drugs that are relevent to their scope of practice, like respiratory therapists. we are having similar arguments about RN access and meeting on it tomorrow🙁

- the fingerprints are a HUGE problem for us. since you have reynaud's, you should ask your system admin to set you up to log in with password only. you have a real reason for not being able to use a bio-id, and shouldnt be prevented from getting meds when needed! [i use password only, just b/c the amount of time i spend chasing problems with the machines, i cant be bothered with the finger print!]


- kits are a great idea; we probably will build a bunch for pre-op/PACU. we dont have the budget this year for all the OR's, but i think it would be fantastic if we could!

thanks again!

ps - when i was visiting the OR yesterday, saw a whole hallway lined with brand new Dragers...must have been 25 of them! how come you guys get such cool toys?🙂
 
Wait until ya work in a place where the bean counters have everything but the OR table and the anesthesia machine in the PYXIS machine. I worked at one place where tape, tongue depressors, syringes, 4x4 gauze... the whole 9 yards was imprisoned in a wall of PYXIS machines. I felt sorry for the 1st surgical case of the day as that pt got billed for shiit I used up for the entire day... 5 yankauers, 6 ETTs... ya get the picture? Ya put up a wall and Zippy's goin' to find a way around it come hell or high water. Regards, ---Zip
 
We have a Pyxis in each OR by the ventilator with pretty much everything we need in it, and take out whatever we need before or during the case. I don't see how it is wasted time once you become deft with getting what you need out of it. We log in (name/fingerprint) at the beginning and it's open, except for the narcs, but those are readily available with two touches on the screen. I guess we're being spoiled.
Then it's become just a realllllly expensive anesthesia cart.

And zip - that would be a royal PIA to deal with that every day, and as you noted, you worked around the system anyway. Does Pyxis have sales reps trained by Aspect? Their reps were just about as condescending and obnoxioius.
 
BTW - our pyxis is in the pre-op area and PACU. We have separate anesthesia drug trays in the OR's that are in secure carts. Under no circumstances would we have an in-OR pyxis. .

We have just one pyxis in the center core, serving 10 ORs, which can lead to the occasional traffic jam especially at 0645. I've heard of pyxis anesthesia carts in each OR at other hospitals but never seen it myself.

The situation at Zippy's hospital is beyond ridiculous.

I know of another local hospital that keeps their dantrolene in the pyxis. Consider:

-- this hospital uses a lot of locums circulator RNs, since they basically treat their own RN employees like feces. It takes quite a while for the locums RNs to get pyxis access due to paperwork. Those RNs have to find a local employee to open the pyxis for them.

-- these locums likewise cannot access the dantrolene without their own password which usually takes 2-3 weeks to get.

-- the dantrolene isn't listed under it's drug name. Nor is it listed under "MH" or "malignant hyperthermia" kit. To get it, you have to know that the pharmacy entered it in the pyxis as "hyperthermia kit." Type in "dantrolene" or "MH" or "malignant" and you get nothing.

Yessirree, a giant step backwards.
 
- kits are a great idea; we probably will build a bunch for pre-op/PACU. )

Each person creates their individualized kits based on personal preference, then gives them a unique name in the pyxis kit software. For instance, anyone at my hospital with anesthesia access can log-on, press the master kit icon, and will given the choice to create their own kit, or withdraw meds for their patient using my kits:

Trin big geta = 5 mg midaz, 10 mg morphine, 500 mic fent
Trin little geta = 2 mg midaz, 250 mic fent
Trin carcinoid = 5 mg midaz, sandostatin, albumin, 1 mg fent, etc.

Same idea for CABG, little MAC, big MAC, etc. Much easier than requesting the meds one by one, especially when you're getting meds for a big case.
 
I've used the Pyxis and I hate it. If I never used it again, I'd be plenty happy. At the hospital I spend most of my time at, we have no Pyxis for anesthesia. I get a standard bag of narcs at the beginning of the day and the non narc stuff is in a drug drawer I pick up each morning too. If I need something else, I ask for it at the beginning of the day, or I can get it delivered to me in the OR. It's much more convenient in my mind. All our charges are taken off the anesthesia record. A bit more work for some, but it works much better for me. I keep all the waste in my bag and waste it at the end of the day with the pharmacy tech.

I hope those new Dragers weren't the Apollo. I hate that machine. The Des vaporizers don't work well--very difficult to fill, and they aren't interchangeable with the old Tec 6.
 
Each person creates their individualized kits based on personal preference, then gives them a unique name in the pyxis kit software. For instance, anyone at my hospital with anesthesia access can log-on, press the master kit icon, and will given the choice to create their own kit, or withdraw meds for their patient using my kits:

Trin big geta = 5 mg midaz, 10 mg morphine, 500 mic fent
Trin little geta = 2 mg midaz, 250 mic fent
Trin carcinoid = 5 mg midaz, sandostatin, albumin, 1 mg fent, etc.

Same idea for CABG, little MAC, big MAC, etc. Much easier than requesting the meds one by one, especially when you're getting meds for a big case.

This is pretty much what we have for all our "regular" anesthesiologists.

We have a few locums who come in so we have general kits as well - c/s, appy, etc.

We have about 5 Pyxis throughout the OR & each anesthesiologist has their own carts uniquely set up the way they want. Each cart has dantrolene & a small intralipid, also one of each in pyxis. Dantrolene gets tossed more than it gets used & its expensive, but ...... the cost of doing business.

Additionally, there is some of each drug, which is contained in each kit, in pyxis as individual drugs so they can be accessed alone - in case something gets dropped, extra is needed, etc. All drugs are listed by their generic name, which is a problem for nurses at times. We try to keep a list of the newer brand names & how they're listed in Pyxis right on the top of the machine so they're not looking. During the weekdays, if extra of anything is needed, the circulator calls the pharmacy & we bring it from the OR pharmacy stock - the circulator never leaves the room for drugs while we are there. Its just easier & faster for us and them.

All our "licensed" personnel have logins, fingerprints & passwords. They can use either fingerprint or password - their choice. So, all nurses - RN, LVN, techs, perfusionists, physicians, etc can all get in. Likewise, our locums physicians or relief nurses are given a rotating login/password for that day - no fingerprints. For physicians, if they have access level to the OR, they have access level to PACU, ICU, L&D, ED & the step down unit. So far, that has covered their needs, but can be changed by any pharmacist at any time just by changing the programming - it takes minutes & doesn't require any administrative "mess". There is a pharmacist 24/7 who can make these changes, so far we haven't heard complaints if there are any.

In the beginning, it was a steep learning curve. The biggest problems were what you noted - the jam at 0545, the fine tuning of the kits, running out of drug during long cases, getting the transition set up for anesthesia to get the post-op drugs running in ICU, etc...

But, patience & many meetings & feedback helped. Also, the pharmacy can go a long way in presenting the whole system as a way to facilitate better drug usage rather than capturing charges or following diversion, which it does well. The primary purpose for all of us is the patient, so the system should not prevent good patient care by being a burden. Yeah, the bean counters like it, but we found by removing some of the really needed items - dantrolene, lipids, etc...and keeping those readily accessible was far more important than the charges.

But, we've got good communication with OR & pharmacy so that goes a long way. A few years back, administration tried to cut staff & one place they looked at was the OR pharmacists since we had put in Pyxis. The OR director absoutely said no. Don't know what kind of power he has, but we're still there and have added more pyxis units.
 
In our institution they want to put ALL of the drugs in a pyxis. I have to fight to keep a tray with emergency drugs such as pressors or beta blockers etc,etc. The purpose is to save time for the pharmacy in restocking the trays and to prevent the loss of perishable drugs.
I am fighting tooth and nail on this cause there is no way that in an emergent situation I can count on someone getting a drug I need or me to leave and get it from the pyxis.
 
I hope those new Dragers weren't the Apollo. I hate that machine. The Des vaporizers don't work well--very difficult to fill.

Yeah, what's the deal with those. When you fill them, it seems like a decent amount of Des comes out of the vaporizer into the bottle before it starts filling. I can't figure them out.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
We have Pyxis in two anesthesia locations, one in our amb. surg. center and one each in the two OB ORs.

The Pyxis helps with getting drugs for the occasional unexpected add-ons in our ASU. Usually people get stuff in a staggered (sp?) enough manner that we don't get long lines in the morning. However, it is a pain in the neck trying to find someone to waste with at the end of the day, unless you assigned all of your drugs to a patient before taking them out (in which case you can use the nursing Pyxis). Since our "My items" menu goes with us, I usually assign the stuff and walk to OB to get my witness for the waste.

It usually works well in OB, but it was really annoying once when I wanted to get drugs out relatively quickly, and the stupid thing decided it couldn't read my fingerprint. That was recently. So I'm thinking of taking out some drugs in my name and keeping them on me until the end of my shift so this doesn't happen again.

We have a shortage of pharmacists at my hospital so they are closing our PACU pharmacy (where we normally get and return drug kits) early (4 PM -- previously was 11 PM). After that you have to track down the charge nurse. I know I wanted to get ketamine once for a pericardial window case, and I had to the basement to our main pharmacy b/c the charge nurse didn't have any in her overnight stock. It took a bit of time. A Pyxis would have helped in that situation.
 
We have Pyxis in two anesthesia locations, one in our amb. surg. center and one each in the two OB ORs.

The Pyxis helps with getting drugs for the occasional unexpected add-ons in our ASU. Usually people get stuff in a staggered (sp?) enough manner that we don't get long lines in the morning. However, it is a pain in the neck trying to find someone to waste with at the end of the day, unless you assigned all of your drugs to a patient before taking them out (in which case you can use the nursing Pyxis). Since our "My items" menu goes with us, I usually assign the stuff and walk to OB to get my witness for the waste.

It usually works well in OB, but it was really annoying once when I wanted to get drugs out relatively quickly, and the stupid thing decided it couldn't read my fingerprint. That was recently. So I'm thinking of taking out some drugs in my name and keeping them on me until the end of my shift so this doesn't happen again.

We have a shortage of pharmacists at my hospital so they are closing our PACU pharmacy (where we normally get and return drug kits) early (4 PM -- previously was 11 PM). After that you have to track down the charge nurse. I know I wanted to get ketamine once for a pericardial window case, and I had to the basement to our main pharmacy b/c the charge nurse didn't have any in her overnight stock. It took a bit of time. A Pyxis would have helped in that situation.
 
We had the one pyxis-one OR scheme. But If you didn't log in everything you took out, pharmacy didn't know it was gone. So we had situations like running out of Sux or pitocin in OB or no ephedrine in the OR. We could never convince pharmacy to actually look in the drawers and see if something was missing. They said that took too much time and they didn't have the people for it. So just recently, the pyxises (sp?) were taken away in favor of large trays of drugs and bags of narcs. Supposedly the reason was b/c the contract expired and it would cost too much to renew, but I think it was b/c we complained about it so much.

Apparently, when the pyxis was instituted, there was a large amount of bitter complaining from people who didn't want to use it. Now that it's gone, an equal and opposite amount of complaining is going on. Don't be surprised if the same happens at your institution!
 
We have just one pyxis in the center core, serving 10 ORs, which can lead to the occasional traffic jam especially at 0645. I've heard of pyxis anesthesia carts in each OR at other hospitals but never seen it myself.

-- the dantrolene isn't listed under it's drug name. Nor is it listed under "MH" or "malignant hyperthermia" kit. To get it, you have to know that the pharmacy entered it in the pyxis as "hyperthermia kit." Type in "dantrolene" or "MH" or "malignant" and you get nothing.

Yessirree, a giant step backwards.

- ok, whoever built that kit deserves to have their fingers slammed in one of the pyxis drawers. my pyxis formulary is an exact mirror of the formulary in my pharmacy system. kits can be built, but ANY drug can be found by brand/generic name.

- i've heard of hospitals keeping everything right down to scrubs in pyxises. they actually make a scrub station!

- the anesthesia stations are on voluntary recall by cardinal...as in they are currently not making any more new ones. they are considered a medical device by the FDA due to proximity to the patient, and cardinal is re-working/patching software and cabinet config.

- thanks to pharmacogenomic for reminding me we need to get an intralipid loaded in the cabinets!

- don't know what kind of dragers they are, sorry! there's a small green button that says "O2 +" on the front....what does that do?
 
We have Pyxis in the ORs, stocked with almost everything (no meds that req refrig). I don't have a personal kit made up, but I do take out the same emergency drugs etc for the day, plus whatever I'll anticipate needing. We don't use the fingerprint scanners, and the user/password takes 1 second to enter, so minimal delay there. I also really like how you can document wasting of controlled substances. There is a central machine that has Intralipid and other rarely used or expensive drugs. The annoying this are having to count the contents (most people say yes and screws up the count) and broken ampules (particularly hurtful with the fentanyl etc). Not sure how the OB ones are yet. We also have a sealed emergency drug tray in the top drawer of the anesthesia cart. In all, I think it's a system that works very well.
 
tuss - you can see these are very common & valid complaints & comments.

The beauty of Pyxis is you can program it as strictly or loosly as you want. Its all in what your purpose is.

Some places have an issue with diversion - we never have....in the OR. Our purpose in the OR was stockpiling (thus lots of expired medications & just too much non rotating stock) and capturing charges.

So...we made sure the drugs were where they needed to be easily, which is why some are out of pyxis & all licensed people can get into Pyxis.

For the "wasting" issue - the physician will just "waste" the leftover meds without a second signature. That second signature is mine or whomever is working my shift, at the end of the shift. Sometimes I leave at 5, sometimes not till 7. Every morning, I will sign the wastage that occurred at night. We just programmed it so the second signature is pending, so all signatures are captured within 12 hours of the case anyway. That means the anesthesiologist can leave when the case is done. I'll just catch him/her the next day. For locums, our OR supervisor at the time the locums leaves signs the wastage, but another physician (ie....the surgeon can sign as well). I have to review the anesthesia log anyway to document & capture the charges of the drugs not taken out of pyxis. At the same time, we use the data for DUR reviews, to complete compliance discrepancies, make sure the ICU pharmacist knows all antibiotic doses & timing given during the case, etc...

Its all in how strictly controlling the pharmacy wants to be. The more strict they become, the less control they get & something like Pyxis fails.

The loss of a few MS and cefazolin charges is not worth pissing off a whole department. Its worked for us & dropped the OR drug budget dramatically.
 
One hospital where I work has a Scheduled drugs only pxyis

They have it set up where you take drugs out under your name, not a patient. You can take a whole days out at a time. You fill out a charge sheet documenting what was used and wasted with each case adn patient name. At the end of the day, you drop your charge sheet and waste in a sealed box. Pharmacy comes by, verifies teh waste and makes teh charges.

Seems to work pretty well without being unduly burdensome.
 
- ok, whoever built that kit deserves to have their fingers slammed in one of the pyxis drawers. my pyxis formulary is an exact mirror of the formulary in my pharmacy system. kits can be built, but ANY drug can be found by brand/generic name.

- i've heard of hospitals keeping everything right down to scrubs in pyxises. they actually make a scrub station!
yeah ^^^what tussionex said.

Also, a certain CVM which shall remain nameless (cough starts with an O cough) has (or had) the scrub station and it was just like that episode of scrubs where Elliot has to strip to her bra and panties in order to get clean scrubs...interns and residents disrobing in the hallway...my eyes will never recover. I wish they'd just go back to "Ye Olde Locker Room Cabinet Full of Horribly Coloured Scrubs No One Would Ever Wear In Public" No fun scrambling for new scrubs at 0215 in between colic surgeries.
 
yeah ^^^what tussionex said.

Also, a certain CVM which shall remain nameless (cough starts with an O cough) has (or had) the scrub station and it was just like that episode of scrubs where Elliot has to strip to her bra and panties in order to get clean scrubs...interns and residents disrobing in the hallway...my eyes will never recover. I wish they'd just go back to "Ye Olde Locker Room Cabinet Full of Horribly Coloured Scrubs No One Would Ever Wear In Public" No fun scrambling for new scrubs at 0215 in between colic surgeries.


my techs are friends with the guys in linens...we want scrubs, they need a tylenol, some ambesol...one hand washes the other.

we are fairly relaxed with our pyxis rules...we don't want people to be too irritated, inconvenienced, etc...it will just make it worse for us. our main purpose is capturing charges and streamlining the floor stock process.

my favorite pyxis moment was tonight....newly installed last week on a floor, and i swear 10 nurses crowded into the med room trying to do an inventory...it was like a clown car...

also asked tonight...."what do you do if you drop a bottle of desflurane...it doesnt really LOOK broken?"

i love my job
 
i'd say one of the main problems we have with pyxis is in the trauma/emergency wards. Particularly ICU (intensive care unit) and ER

they always want their meds NOW! NOW! NOW! so they just override everything w/o making a patient profile so we lose a lot of charges that way.
 
Top