QME in California - Questions

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DrMDAware

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Hi all,

Is there anyone out there who would be willing to chat with me for a bit and answer a few questions about doing QME work in California?

I see there are few bigger companies that take about a 40%.

And I just found out the intakes can be done remotely indefinitely.

I know there is a test in April and October.

Seems like a nice set up to supplement the main clinical practice.

I wanted to see what I'm missing?

Is it the time to write the report? Is a 40% cut too much? Is it passing the exam? Is it reading through the history?


Feel free to PM me. Thx!

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I briefly considered it - it's a flat rate - used to be hourly. The reports are the length of novellas.
 
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You don't need to use the companies but they are becoming more powerful. You will be added to the QME panel and get cases that way. Due to the increasing frequency of psychological problems, and changing nature of work (i.e. less manual labor), psych claims are much more common than in the past. The number of QMEs continues to decline (though there are quite a lot of psychologists). The rates went up substantially a few years ago. The QME mills (called "aggregators") are registered at multiple locations so they are more likely to get the cases but you still have a good chance of getting assigned cases without them. They handle billing, admin, record collection, scheduling, malpractice coverage, office space, training, dictation and transcription. some will pay for training and the QME certification. Thus for some people it may be advantageous to use a QME mill but it is not required (though probably is becoming more difficult to do this on your own).

There are no "intakes." You are doing a QME examination which a particular type of IME. You should probably be spending 3-4 hours+ evaluating them, less than 2 hrs would certainly be circumspect in most cases and then there is the time for record review and report preparation. Your report should also summarize records reviewed and relied upon. There may be a lot of records to review (it works out at about $300/hr for record review after the first 2 hrs which are included in the flat fee for the eval). Most people are doing some sort of psychological testing or at least malingering assessment (PVT/SVT) as part of these assessments and if they aren't, then they should be. Psychiatrists tend to be less familiar with these unless they have forensic training (and even then many forensic psychiatrists were not trained on this). The evals can be done remotely if you attest than an in person exam is not necessary.

Some cons to think about is that it can be depressing doing this kind of work. It is not as well compensated as doing other kinds of personal injury cases. While most claimants are genuine, there are high rates of malingering of some kind (exaggeration, false imputation, partial malingering), or unconscious exaggeration, misattribution etc that are not malingering but still relevant to the claim. People get upset if called out, or your opinions are not favorable to their case, which can lead to false complaints to the DIR or medical board or negative online reviews (QMEs frequently have 1 star reviews only by disgruntled claimants). Some people may worry about risk of violence, though you are more likely to be assaulted by a patient and both are relative uncommon events. The other issue if that the worker's compensation insurance is supposed to pay you for the work. There is no real enforcement of this so you could have difficulty recovering your money. They might also pay out less than what you billed in the way insurance companies make up their own rates. The DIR does not enforce their own fee schedule.

I don't do this work so don't DM me about it.
 
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Members don't see this ad :)
I briefly considered it - it's a flat rate - used to be hourly. The reports are the length of novellas.
So if there was a way to legally write the reports faster that would be a game changer yeah?
 
You don't need to use the companies but they are becoming more powerful. You will be added to the QME panel and get cases that way. Due to the increasing frequency of psychological problems, and changing nature of work (i.e. less manual labor), psych claims are much more common than in the past. The number of QMEs continues to decline (though there are quite a lot of psychologists). The rates went up substantially a few years ago. The QME mills (called "aggregators") are registered at multiple locations so they are more likely to get the cases but you still have a good chance of getting assigned cases without them. They handle billing, admin, record collection, scheduling, malpractice coverage, office space, training, dictation and transcription. some will pay for training and the QME certification. Thus for some people it may be advantageous to use a QME mill but it is not required (though probably is becoming more difficult to do this on your own).

There are no "intakes." You are doing a QME examination which a particular type of IME. You should probably be spending 3-4 hours+ evaluating them, less than 2 hrs would certainly be circumspect in most cases and then there is the time for record review and report preparation. Your report should also summarize records reviewed and relied upon. There may be a lot of records to review (it works out at about $300/hr for record review after the first 2 hrs which are included in the flat fee for the eval). Most people are doing some sort of psychological testing or at least malingering assessment (PVT/SVT) as part of these assessments and if they aren't, then they should be. Psychiatrists tend to be less familiar with these unless they have forensic training (and even then many forensic psychiatrists were not trained on this). The evals can be done remotely if you attest than an in person exam is not necessary.

Some cons to think about is that it can be depressing doing this kind of work. It is not as well compensated as doing other kinds of personal injury cases. While most claimants are genuine, there are high rates of malingering of some kind (exaggeration, false imputation, partial malingering), or unconscious exaggeration, misattribution etc that are not malingering but still relevant to the claim. People get upset if called out, or your opinions are not favorable to their case, which can lead to false complaints to the DIR or medical board or negative online reviews (QMEs frequently have 1 star reviews only by disgruntled claimants). Some people may worry about risk of violence, though you are more likely to be assaulted by a patient and both are relative uncommon events. The other issue if that the worker's compensation insurance is supposed to pay you for the work. There is no real enforcement of this so you could have difficulty recovering your money. They might also pay out less than what you billed in the way insurance companies make up their own rates. The DIR does not enforce their own fee schedule.

I don't do this work so don't DM me about it.
Thanks for the thoughtful response.

You seem to know a lot about it despite not doing it!

1. How does one get cases without using these QME companies then - write good reports, finish them quickly, be impartial, just be in a “hot” location?

2. Wow - 2+ hours for an exam. That seems high. I don’t doubt you. Why does it take that amount of time to do a quality review? I mean are the records not there, patients don’t answer questions, they need time to fill out surveys etc

3. Interesting about PVT/SVT. Good to know.

4. If one does this on their own who do they talk to if they don’t get paid? Seems like the bigger companies could track this money down but that’s just my suspicion I could be wrong.
 
Thanks for the thoughtful response.

You seem to know a lot about it despite not doing it!

1. How does one get cases without using these QME companies then - write good reports, finish them quickly, be impartial, just be in a “hot” location?
You will be on the QME panels and assigned cases that way. While there are a small number of people who do the largest number of cases, the demand is apparently such that you should get cases.
2. Wow - 2+ hours for an exam. That seems high. I don’t doubt you. Why does it take that amount of time to do a quality review? I mean are the records not there, patients don’t answer questions, they need time to fill out surveys etc
It sounds like you don't have any experience doing IMEs. I don't do worker's comp cases but I typically spend 4-6 hours doing an IME. You have to do a full psychiatric assessment, assessment of their ability to work, assessment of whether their symptoms are caused by the work incident or other factors, and include some assessment of malingering. All of that takes time. They're not gonna pay you $4k+ for a 1hr psychiatric diagnostic evaluation.
3. Interesting about PVT/SVT. Good to know.

4. If one does this on their own who do they talk to if they don’t get paid? Seems like the bigger companies could track this money down but that’s just my suspicion I could be wrong.
You appeal to the WC company. to be clear, you will get paid but they might try to stiff you on the full amount in the way that insurance does even though this is a forensic rather than clinical eval. If you aren't getting resolution, then you complain to maximus who does the independent review. It's not free though, they charge like a $180 to review the dispute. DIR is apparently not very helpful with enforcing their own fee schedule.
 
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Thanks for the thoughtful response.

You seem to know a lot about it despite not doing it!

1. How does one get cases without using these QME companies then - write good reports, finish them quickly, be impartial, just be in a “hot” location?

2. Wow - 2+ hours for an exam. That seems high. I don’t doubt you. Why does it take that amount of time to do a quality review? I mean are the records not there, patients don’t answer questions, they need time to fill out surveys etc

3. Interesting about PVT/SVT. Good to know.

4. If one does this on their own who do they talk to if they don’t get paid? Seems like the bigger companies could track this money down but that’s just my suspicion I could be wrong.
You would have to rent 10 offices for 10 locations to be listed with DIR, I tried without one of the big shops, it was not worth the extra money because of the rent and hiring a secretary for the admin parts, dealing with lawyers and depositions, etc.

You definitely don't need to spend hours doing an evaluation, As you get better at it, you will rarely go over 2 hours, mostly around 1-1 1/2 hours.
 
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I’m under the impression IMEs are paid by the hour whereas QMEs are a flat fee like previously stated in the thread.

You would have to rent 10 offices for 10 locations to be listed with DIR, I tried without one of the big shops, it was not worth the extra money because of the rent and hiring a secretary for the admin parts, dealing with lawyers and depositions, etc.

You definitely don't need to spend hours doing an evaluation, As you get better at it, you will rarely go over 2 hours, mostly around 1-1 1/2 hours.
thanks FN9

I’ll ping you
 
From the DMs I have received the cons are
- reports take too long to write
- intake is too hard to summarize with lots of fluff and hard to find info
- have to travel to locations
- give up 40% of the cut to PE
- get deposed and some attorneys are augmentative
- get listed but don't get busy
- scheduled intakes get cancelled last minute and pay is peanuts for a cancellation
- feels 'icky'
- takes too many hours and thus the overall hourly rate is not that great

Anything else I'm missing?
 
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From the DMs I have received the cons are
- reports take too long to write
- intake is too hard to summarize with lots of fluff and hard to find info
- have to travel to locations
- give up 40% of the cut to PE
- get deposed and some attorneys are augmentative
- get listed but don't get busy
- scheduled intakes get cancelled last minute and pay is peanuts for a cancellation
- feels 'icky'
- takes too many hours and thus the overall hourly rate is not that great

Anything else I'm missing?
I actually ended up going as far as taking the QME exam but am probably not going to go through with it for now. I make way more hourly just doing SNF work (easily 500+/hr) and feel it's not a wise use of my time considering I want to hit FIRE asap.
 
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I actually ended up going as far as taking the QME exam but am probably not going to go through with it for now. I make way more hourly just doing SNF work (easily 500+/hr) and feel it's not a wise use of my time considering I want to hit FIRE asap.

500+/ hr at skilled nursing as a psychiatrist? What sort of services are you offering these people?
 
I actually ended up going as far as taking the QME exam but am probably not going to go through with it for now. I make way more hourly just doing SNF work (easily 500+/hr) and feel it's not a wise use of my time considering I want to hit FIRE asap.
Wow! That is a great rate. Nice job.

What if you could sit down via tele and do an intake for 1 hour and complete the report before you stood up? That's around 1k per hour. Would it be worth it then?
 
For 1k/hr and the ability to do this sitting in my boxers at home, I’d be all over it haha. I only know of 1 guy who makes this much doing QME work in Cali.
 
For 1k/hr and the ability to do this sitting in my boxers at home, I’d be all over it haha. I only know of 1 guy who makes this much doing QME work in Cali.
PM me.

You might know another.

Put some pants on though.
 
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