QTc threshold

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cbrons

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I know that ~460 and beyond is considered "prolonged" in females, but at what point do you actually consider stopping antipsychotics?

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I think you have to do a risk-benefit analysis for each patient to determine when to stop.

At my program, on the consult service we start to seriously consider a change at 480. According to our toxicology service, 500 is the line where it becomes an absolute no-no.
 
Yeah, as far as my knowledge

Men: 450ms is upper limit
Women: 470 ms is upper limit.

Between 480-500 raise eyebrows.

Above 500 stop/switch
 
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Was always taught that a QTc of 440 was high (and easy to spot on ECGs as it's anything more than 2 big squares and 2 small squares). Now I tend to favour additional monitoring once you're at 470-480, but when I've spoken to cardiologists most don't seem too concerned unless you're around the 500 mark.
 
Since we are on the topic somewhat, any data on which anti-depressants and anti-psychotics shorten/do not prolong QTc?

Of the SSRis, obviously celexa is out, and therefore I presume lexapro as well. I read in a paper that Prozac/Zoloft are moderate risk, and that Paxil is the safest among SSRIs for QTc. True?

And what about Remeron. Some attendings told me its 100% safe, some say it prolongs QTc? My understanding is that Remeron does not prolong QTc, and Wellbutrin shortens QTc.

Finally, with Anti-psychotics, they all prolong it. But which one is the best to shortern/not prolong? My understanding is Zyprexa/Abilify is the best...and Geodan is the worst. True?
 
Since we are on the topic somewhat, any data on which anti-depressants and anti-psychotics shorten/do not prolong QTc?

Of the SSRis, obviously celexa is out, and therefore I presume lexapro as well. I read in a paper that Prozac/Zoloft are moderate risk, and that Paxil is the safest among SSRIs for QTc. True?

And what about Remeron. Some attendings told me its 100% safe, some say it prolongs QTc? My understanding is that Remeron does not prolong QTc, and Wellbutrin shortens QTc.

Finally, with Anti-psychotics, they all prolong it. But which one is the best to shortern/not prolong? My understanding is Zyprexa/Abilify is the best...and Geodan is the worst. True?
abilify has been shown to shorter the QT interval.

most of the neuroleptics that prolong QT interval have been pulled or their use severely limited: pimozide, thioridazine, thiothixene, sertindole, droperidol
out of the SGAs ziprasidone is the worst offender.

personally i am not terribly excited about SRIs and prolongation of the QT interval. the whole citalopram thing is ridiculously overblown. I would have no qualms using it in patients even if they have Long QT syndrome as long as cardiology were happy with it (they usually don't care). I don't tend to use citalopram but I would have no hesitation about prescribing over 40mg of it if indicated.

also remember, we should care less about prolonging the QTc in itself. what we are concerned about is torsades, the risk of which increases with prolonged QTc

I usually consider >500 as of relative concern (but will still use something like olanzapine or abilify) and >550 as a near absolute contraindication. One has to take into consideration other medications (for example methadone, trazodone, a number of antibiotics, antiarrhythmics, TCAs), metabolic derangements, history of heart disease (including IHD, channelopathies, arrhythmias) as well as the severity of the psychiatric disturbance for which the drugs are used. if patient is not psychotic or having agitated delirium, I would drop the drug fairly quickly. The key is considering the risks and benefits, and consulting or collaborating with cardiology where indicated.

The only deaths I've seen are patients on the cardiology service getting too much IV haldol...
 
This is by far the best review of the subject and should be required reading (even if it is 15 years old): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11691681

Very nice review indeed.

Agree that the whole Celexa QTc prolongation thing is waaaaay overblown. Just because it's statistically significant doesn't mean it's clinically significant.
Don't get me started on the whole suicidality black box warning on SSRI's....
 
Very nice review indeed.

Agree that the whole Celexa QTc prolongation thing is waaaaay overblown. Just because it's statistically significant doesn't mean it's clinically significant.
Don't get me started on the whole suicidality black box warning on SSRI's....
that is different, the suicidality warning was definitely warranted
 
I keep them under 500 and do check it every 6 mos. I've had PCP's add meds without due diligence that caused serious problems in the past.
 
Don't forget to think about rechecking the ECG.

I have seen research protocols where they recheck 3 times and average the results. Then only stop if the average was above 500.
 
Good point. Plus not only checking 3 times before morning rounds, but throwing in an afternoon check in there too... QTc can change by the day as well as by the time of day.

F0r any of you in private practice, do you have an EKG machine in the office and interpret your own EKG's? I don't think I'd be comfortable with that liability. Do you all just refer to PCP or cards?
 
Good point. Plus not only checking 3 times before morning rounds, but throwing in an afternoon check in there too... QTc can change by the day as well as by the time of day.

F0r any of you in private practice, do you have an EKG machine in the office and interpret your own EKG's? I don't think I'd be comfortable with that liability. Do you all just refer to PCP or cards?
Ask the PCP to check and monitor. They have the office staff, space, equpt and old readings in which to compare.
 
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