Question about Arizona

[JavadiCavity]

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Just wondering . . .

How is it that most people are impressed with their program but are disgusted with their interview/admission process? Aren't the two complementary and a good predictor of what it would be like to go to school there . . . ?

What is it then are people impressed by?

It's just my thought, but the focus of Az's program is community health, which means actually spending time in the community, ie. traveling, etc,. And, also the osteopathic philosophy, which means holistic care and taking in the whole picture.

I mean, if just the four walls impressed you, and you didn't look beyond that, and see the whole picture, then maybe it isn't the right fit and you wouldn't be happy there anyway.

Just my opinioin, let me apologize now if I offend anyone. 😛

I was impressed with many aspects of the curriculum, including the following: devoting a majority (95%) of the sophmore year to pre-clinical activities, getting to do clinical work away from the school during the senior year, the administration (especially the Dean and the Dean of Admissions), and the students. The building is nice, and the facilities are cutting edge.

To the comments made about the interview earlier, I'll add this. At every other interview I've been to, I left feeling pretty good about my chances of acceptance, but at Arizona I left feeling worse about my chances than before I got there. Basically, the administration tells you that you're the "cream of the crop" if you're invited to an interview, but that doesn't mean you'll be accepted. Of the seven of us that interviewed that day, the dean of admissions said that statistically only one of us would be admitted.

I didn't mind the interview format, but it was much different than my other interviews. I actually thought that certain parts of it were fun, but that other parts were stressful. However, at the end of the day, it's hard to gauge if you impressed them or not. So, I couldn't walk away feeling confident. I honestly feel that picking me to be admitted over somebody else could come down to a coin toss.

 

[Darksunshine]

I was impressed with many aspects of the curriculum, including the following: devoting a majority (95%) of the sophmore year to pre-clinical activities, getting to do clinical work away from the school during the senior year, the administration (especially the Dean and the Dean of Admissions), and the students. The building is nice, and the facilities are cutting edge.

To the comments made about the interview earlier, I'll add this. At every other interview I've been to, I left feeling pretty good about my chances of acceptance, but at Arizona I left feeling worse about my chances than before I got there. Basically, the administration tells you that you're the "cream of the crop" if you're invited to an interview, but that doesn't mean you'll be accepted. Of the seven of us that interviewed that day, the dean of admissions said that statistically only one of us would be admitted.

I didn't mind the interview format, but it was much different than my other interviews. I actually thought that certain parts of it were fun, but that other parts were stressful. However, at the end of the day, it's hard to gauge if you impressed them or not. So, I couldn't walk away feeling confident. I honestly feel that picking me to be admitted over somebody else could come down to a coin toss.

Whoah! I had the exact same feeling!

 

[albuquerquegirl]

I think the whole admissioins process is a big coin toss. Sometimes it seems that it's less about stats and just about timing.

I've been there, but I haven't intervewed, yet 😉 .

I also heard the same thing from another girl who interviewed there last year. She felt really discouraged about the whole thing, then she got accepted. Went somewhere else though . . .

 

[Sprgrover]

I didn't mind the interview format, but it was much different than my other interviews. I actually thought that certain parts of it were fun, but that other parts were stressful. However, at the end of the day, it's hard to gauge if you impressed them or not. So, I couldn't walk away feeling confident. I honestly feel that picking me to be admitted over somebody else could come down to a coin toss.

My sentiments, exactly. After doing their exercises and answering their questions I didn't have a handle on 'how well I did.' I guess I'll find out come December...

 

[Darksunshine]

Hey, Sprgrover, I think Javadicavity was there that day we were?
🙂

 

[Sprgrover]

Hey, Sprgrover, I think Javadicavity was there that day we were?
🙂

I'm pretty sure he was. I'll see you at USC!

 

[Darksunshine]

I have a question:

Is AZ going to increase the number of students it accepts this year (2005) with the clinic opening soon?

Do you know Gavin? Anyone heard anything?

Just curiousity killing the cat here.

 

[jdcinza13]

I've heard they are going to keep the number at 54 the entire time. That is the number of spots they have for the sim lab and something like 84 seats in the clinic. That will allow half the 4th year and all of the 3rd year a spot in the clinic. I could be wrong.

 

[ItsGavinC]

I've heard they are going to keep the number at 54 the entire time. That is the number of spots they have for the sim lab and something like 84 seats in the clinic. That will allow half the 4th year and all of the 3rd year a spot in the clinic. I could be wrong.

Correct you are.

 

[msf41]

Hey Gavin,

I just got the arizona secondary app. On there they want community service references. For the past two years the volunteer work I have done has been rather scattered projects here and there (ie: an evening volunteering for PBS station, Red cross blood drive, saturday afternoon community clean up.) These hours add up and I feel like I am involved in the community, but I feel like the Arizona secondary app is catering to community involvement that is strictly through a major organization (like they want to be able to call the director of your city Habitat for humanity and hear that you have been building housed every weekend for 10 years).

so my question is, what if I don't have a good contact reference person for my community service?

The only person I can really include as a reference was when I volulunteered for Primary childrens medical center for 6 months (3 hours a week), but that was 3 years ago!

 

[ItsGavinC]

so my question is, what if I don't have a good contact reference person for my community service?

That's fine. If there isn't a contact then there isn't a contact! You should be okay.

 

[sinned]

IMHO, I think unless you have stellar stats or have something in your secondary that will make them tear, you will not receive an interview from them. Recently there have been a group of people getting rejections from the school and I am one of them...although my undergraduate gpa was low, but my Post-Bac gpa after 40 units of pre-req. courses adds up to 3.74, and had a 21/20/19 on my DATs...so be prepared to wait a century to get that thin letter...

 

[ItsGavinC]

IMHO, I think unless you have stellar stats... you will not receive an interview from them...my Post-Bac gpa after 40 units of pre-req. courses adds up to 3.74, and had a 21/20/19 on my DATs.

You don't consider your 3.74 and a 21/20 to be "stellar"?

 

[sinned]

You don't consider your 3.74 and a 21/20 to be "stellar"?

that 3.74 gpa is from my post-bac transcript, after AADSAS takes my undergraduate gpa into account, I end up with a Cumulative of 2.93, BCP of 3.23 and Sci GPA of 3.16...but they could obviously see from my post-bac transcript that I have good solid grades with my letters of recommendation saying that I had the highest point total in a class of a 100+ and another letter of recommendation saying that I had the 2nd highest point total in a class of 100+. But I guess that doesn't tickle their fancy...oh well you can't please everyone. So it seems like the search for the "holy grail," or what Arizona adcoms want in an applicant, goes on...

 

[Dr2BSoon]

that 3.74 gpa is from my post-bac transcript, after AADSAS takes my undergraduate gpa into account, I end up with a Cumulative of 2.93, BCP of 3.23 and Sci GPA of 3.16...but they could obviously see from my post-bac transcript that I have good solid grades with my letters of recommendation saying that I had the highest point total in a class of a 100+ and another letter of recommendation saying that I had the 2nd highest point total in a class of 100+. But I guess that doesn't tickle their fancy...oh well you can't please everyone. So it seems like the search for the "holy grail," or what Arizona adcoms want in an applicant, goes on...

FYI: I am applying to Arizona, and have already had an amazingly steller interview there, so I guess you could stay that I have "tickled their fancy" enough to make the first interview cut. And I made it to the interview round with a DAT AA of 15, and GPA of 2.7 and a science gpa of 2.5, my LOR were glowing and my essay was outstanding, so I guess there is more to it than just a boring old numbers game like at a lot of places. I am extremely well-rounded and community conscious, as I haven't spent my entire college career in the library cramming to inflate my gpa. I absolutely loved Arizona, and if I get in, the instant my acceptance letter arrives I am going to send them the deposit.

 

[sinned]

😕

FYI: I am applying to Arizona, and have already had an amazingly steller interview there, so I guess you could stay that I have "tickled their fancy" enough to make the first interview cut. And I made it to the interview round with a DAT AA of 15, and GPA of 2.7 and a science gpa of 2.5, my LOR were glowing and my essay was outstanding, so I guess there is more to it than just a boring old numbers game like at a lot of places. I am extremely well-rounded and community conscious, as I haven't spent my entire college career in the library cramming to inflate my gpa. I absolutely loved Arizona, and if I get in, the instant my acceptance letter arrives I am going to send them the deposit.

Exactly, it's hard to predict what Arizona wants to see...that is the exact reason why I say it is anybody's game 😕

 

[ItsGavinC]

FYI: I am applying to Arizona, and have already had an amazingly steller interview there, so I guess you could stay that I have "tickled their fancy" enough to make the first interview cut. And I made it to the interview round with a DAT AA of 15, and GPA of 2.7 and a science gpa of 2.5, my LOR were glowing and my essay was outstanding, so I guess there is more to it than just a boring old numbers game like at a lot of places. I am extremely well-rounded and community conscious, as I haven't spent my entire college career in the library cramming to inflate my gpa. I absolutely loved Arizona, and if I get in, the instant my acceptance letter arrives I am going to send them the deposit.

Although to be honest with you, how does the adcom know that you can handle the rigors of dental school? With a 15 DAT and a 2.5 science GPA, there's a good chance you are taking out piles of loans only to flunk out of dental school.

I certainly do NOT agree with applicants who have such low stats being admitted. That isn't a hit on you, it's just a general statement. It doesn't matter how good your LORs are, or how perfect your essay is, if you can't do well in a basic science course, or can't study for the DAT. From your numbers, I'd say you didn't accomplish either of those measures.

 

[Veneto]

I have been wondering this about the Arizona School for some time now. Arizona seems to be a school that looks for other things than just gpa/DAT. Fine. I was wondering since the school is new and doesnt have the reputation that alot of other schools have yet why accept alot of students with the lower scores? It would make sense to me that if students are not performing well on standardized tests like the DAT or have lower GPA's then when it comes time for the boards they are not likely to score very highly. This leads to having a new dental school with not very high board scores, and a failure or drop out rate alot higher than other schools, which may hurt the reputation of the school. What do I know though? I also wondered something else. Arizona is a private school, and therefore has no requirement for the amount of instate residents it accepts. Before the school opened the dean, Dr Dillenburg came and spoke to the pre-dental club at ASU and stated that they were going to interview every in-state applicant that applied. Since I know of my friend that got a letter of denial from Arizona and he was in-state what happened to the policy? I asked an admission person about it last week and she said they never had that policy. Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[jdcinza13]

Veneto,
No thoughts on the in-state/out-of-state policy, but as far as the standardized scores, if I heard them correctly at an open house, the first class scored 1 point below the national average on the NBDE 1. I don't think that's too bad, considering it was the first class and the kinks need to get worked out of anything that is new. I think the next classes will be scoring a little higher...just a thought.

 

[wimmcs]

. Before the school opened the dean, Dr Dillenburg came and spoke to the pre-dental club at ASU and stated that they were going to interview every in-state applicant that applied. Since I know of my friend that got a letter of denial from Arizona and he was in-state what happened to the policy? I asked an admission person about it last week and she said they never had that policy. Anyone have any thoughts?

I actually have been to several of their open houses, from their very first one (prior to the first class) to their most recent one on Oct. 2nd. I've also attended the pre-dental meetings at ASU where Dr. Dillinburg has been in attendance and I've never heard Dr. Dillenburg or any of his staff say this. I'm pretty sure I would remember such important piece of info... but this doesn't mean he never said it, I don't recall hearing this info.

 

[ItsGavinC]

I have been wondering this about the Arizona School for some time now. Arizona seems to be a school that looks for other things than just gpa/DAT. Fine. I was wondering since the school is new and doesnt have the reputation that alot of other schools have yet why accept alot of students with the lower scores?

The phrase "a lot of students with lower scores" is a huge overstatement. My pointed comments were in reference to ANY student with lower scores being accepted, at ANY school.

Thus far, our stats fall right in line with most schools: 3.3-3.5 GPA and a 18-19 on the DAT for average matriculants. I don't think those are lo, per se. Applicants I've interviewed with this year have had outrageous stats, in my opinion. Certainly stats (3.7+ and 21+) that would have crushed mine two cycles ago.

Are students with low scores admitted? Of course, such is the nature of the admissions game. That happens at *most* schools, though.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Veneto,
No thoughts on the in-state/out-of-state policy, but as far as the standardized scores, if I heard them correctly at an open house, the first class scored 1 point below the national average on the NBDE 1. I don't think that's too bad, considering it was the first class and the kinks need to get worked out of anything that is new. I think the next classes will be scoring a little higher...just a thought.

We were actually a couple points below the national average for our average. Still, that isn't *too* bad considering we are a brand new program and much of the curriculum had huge kinks in it that first year.

To say the least, we weren't near the bottom of the list when it comes to school averages on the NBDE. The way I see it, there are at least ~15 other schools out there that had averages lower than ours.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Before the school opened the dean, Dr Dillenburg came and spoke to the pre-dental club at ASU and stated that they were going to interview every in-state applicant that applied. Since I know of my friend that got a letter of denial from Arizona and he was in-state what happened to the policy? I asked an admission person about it last week and she said they never had that policy. Anyone have any thoughts?

I've never heard of such a policy either, and it wouldn't make any sense to have such a policy since the school is private, as you pointed out.

It may very well have been Dr. D's intention to do as you mentioned, but I don't know. I DO know that since the first interviews began in 2003, there has never been a time when all in-state applicants have been given interviews, so while the policy may have changed since Dr. D spoke to your club, the policy has also stayed consistant since the school started interviewing for the inaugural class.

I don't have enough information to comment on that any further, but private schools certainly have no commitment to the states they are in, under most circumstances.

 

[kato999]

even though we were a few points lower than the national average we did have around 15 people fail at least one section of the nbde (mostly anatomical sci). our school had a range from sixty something to 96 on the nbde.

this is why i agree with gavin that our school should not accept extremely low dat's/gpa. I do not know all the people that failed but i do know that many were ones who were not doing well in class and who had lower matriculation stats. those who did well had somewhat higher stats i.e. the top 4 scores all had 20+ on the DAT.

 

[drtoothfairy]

What most of you have forgotten is that if he passed the invitation process apparently he has passed the scores preliminary. For the majority of schools if you get invited, than you have passed the standards as far as numbers is concerned. The interview is to see how you are as a person and how well you speak. Correct me if I'm wrong anyone.

 

[ItsGavinC]

What most of you have forgotten is that if he passed the invitation process apparently he has passed the scores preliminary. For the majority of schools if you get invited, than you have passed the standards as far as numbers is concerned. The interview is to see how you are as a person and how well you speak. Correct me if I'm wrong anyone.

Correct. But in conjunction with a statistical cuttoff, at Arizona other parts of your application being exceptional can motivate the adcom to grant an interview, despite low marks (GPA/DAT) that would normally get an application cut.

So, just because somebody was interviewed doesn't mean their scores passed the preliminary benchmark per se.