....question about ASIPP workshop

[gotosleep1098]

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i apologize in advance for this question im new to the pain world. Can someone explain the purpose of these workshops held by ASIPP
https://asipp.org/wp-content/uploads/10-21_IPM-Techiques_brochure.pdf

do you go to these after fellowship training if you feel that you need more practice with cases? Also i keep hearing about courses that teach you surgical skill etc from the main companies how does one go about finding the schedule for those?

 

[epidural man]

i apologize in advance for this question im new to the pain world. Can someone explain the purpose of these workshops held by ASIPP
https://asipp.org/wp-content/uploads/10-21_IPM-Techiques_brochure.pdf

do you go to these after fellowship training if you feel that you need more practice with cases? Also i keep hearing about courses that teach you surgical skill etc from the main companies how does one go about finding the schedule for those?

Our program has graduated several fellows.

It is the same fellowship for all of them, with the same opportunities, rotations, experiences, etc.

What is really amazing is the difference between fellows after the program. You would think it would be so much more homogenized - but it isn’t.

A few have come away feeling very nervous and untrained enough to do complicated procedures on their own. Others came out teaching the staff the best techniques for SCS placement.

It’s weird.

So my point is, I suspect those courses have a place. Many people learn at different rates and for some, 1 year isn’t near enough.

 

[plasma.]

i apologize in advance for this question im new to the pain world. Can someone explain the purpose of these workshops held by ASIPP
https://asipp.org/wp-content/uploads/10-21_IPM-Techiques_brochure.pdf

do you go to these after fellowship training if you feel that you need more practice with cases? Also i keep hearing about courses that teach you surgical skill etc from the main companies how does one go about finding the schedule for those?

This looks like a really good course!

Question for the staff - I am currently in fellowship, wondering if I should attend the basic course? Next course after this is October 2022, the cost will go from $1200 to $3200 as I will no longer be a fellow. However I may get more out of the course after fellowship. Any thoughts?

 

[lobelsteve]

This looks like a really good course!

Question for the staff - I am currently in fellowship, wondering if I should attend the basic course? Next course after this is October 2022, the cost will go from $1200 to $3200 as I will no longer be a fellow. However I may get more out of the course after fellowship. Any thoughts?

Are there still fellows courses run by industry?

 

[gotosleep1098]

Our program has graduated several fellows.

It is the same fellowship for all of them, with the same opportunities, rotations, experiences, etc.

What is really amazing is the difference between fellows after the program. You would think it would be so much more homogenized - but it isn’t.

A few have come away feeling very nervous and untrained enough to do complicated procedures on their own. Others came out teaching the staff the best techniques for SCS placement.

It’s weird.

So my point is, I suspect those courses have a place. Many people learn at different rates and for some, 1 year isn’t near enough.

Makes do you think makes the difference between those who feel comfortable after one year vs those who don't?

 

[myrandom2003]

Are there still fellows courses run by industry?

Absolutely... Rush's instagram has one posted every other week where some company does a training lab for them with a mix of the other programs in the area

 

[epidural man]

Makes do you think makes the difference between those who feel comfortable after one year vs those who don't?

It’s 100% personality and motivation.

 

[RoloTomassi]

It’s 100% personality and motivation.

You don't think any of it is technical talent? I think good hands are important.

 

[Orin]

It's only 12 months of time, with about 8-9 months of actual clinical time after holidays, vacations, weekends, etc.

I maybe can help with hand skills and knowledge, but I can't fix over confidence, poor work ethic, or lack of attention to detail. The fellows that worry me are generally the ones who don't call asking for advice/help.

I might be wrong, but I suspect these courses are mostly meant to gain exposure/funds for their parent societies. There's often heavy industry sponsorship that covers the actual costs plus some, with attendee fees added. From an attendee perspective, it's a good way to see other approaches, get CME while doing procedures rather than dry lectures, and gain confidence in a niche thing you may not have seen/done with some 'experts' to talk to. It could be used by some to gain training in lieu of a fellowship, but more often acts as a refresher or touch up I suspect.

I would try to do it as a fellow, especially if your fellowship has CME funds, if only for networking and exposure to other schools of thought. You may get more out of it around months 6-9 than you will in month 3-6 of your fellowship as you may not have gotten comfortable with the basics. If you get enough of the basic injections, the NANS course with a greater focus on devices may be more high yield if you plan to do those techniques.

 

[agolden1]

i apologize in advance for this question im new to the pain world. Can someone explain the purpose of these workshops held by ASIPP
https://asipp.org/wp-content/uploads/10-21_IPM-Techiques_brochure.pdf

do you go to these after fellowship training if you feel that you need more practice with cases? Also i keep hearing about courses that teach you surgical skill etc from the main companies how does one go about finding the schedule for those?

That ASIPP course is kinda weird looking. The basic and intermediate techniques are all techniques I've done in the first three months of fellowship, minus lumbar discography. There might be some benefit to seeing some of the techniques from the advanced portion with SCS and PNS work.

However, having done a similar course earlier this year, the exposure might not be as significant as you are expecting. At the course I went to, I was in a group of three fellows who rotated through 12-14 stations or so, each at 15 minutes a piece. It was basically a chance to get your hands on a DRG or a stimulator just enough to say you had before moving on to something else. Not really mastery of any particular technique.

In asking some of the reps, there are "attending level courses" after fellowship for somethings (vertiflex comes to mind) that you can discuss with one of the reps if you take a job where you will be performing these procedures.

Still, I can't help but feel that the best exposure comes from going to a program where you have people who are regularly doing all the things you want to do who can teach you good technique for driving the lead, or making your pocket for implant.

 

[gotosleep1098]

agolden1,​

i think that would be ideal to go a program that does these things regularly, but some of us i think are not going to the highly interventional places doing the fancy things enough during fellowship to feel comfortable, is that the purpose of these courses ? Can these courses make up for going to a standard vanilla pain program? I maybe sounding crazy but i have no idea myself.

 

[agolden1]

agolden1,​

i think that would be ideal to go a program that does these things regularly, but some of us i think are not going to the highly interventional places doing the fancy things enough during fellowship to feel comfortable, is that the purpose of these courses ? Can these courses make up for going to a standard vanilla pain program? I maybe sounding crazy but i have no idea myself.

I’m only a fellow so I’ll admit that I’m not 100% certain. What I will say is that some of the people I know who felt less comfortable with some of the advanced procedures benefitted the most from scrubbing with efficient practitioners in their first year out of fellowship. I’ve been told this experience was far more valuable than any course.

Yes, they took a little financial hit as they weren’t seeing patients/doing their own procedures during that time, but they felt that the growth in skills was worthwhile.

 

[soccrwz]

Asipp courses a very helpful, you learn alot of new techniques

 

[plasma.]

Are there still fellows courses run by industry?

I emailed a few reps as per your suggestion but almost nothing offered north of the border...