Question about Aways Applications

[kaleerkalut]

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Hi all,

New to the Away VSAS system and all that Away Rotations entails. I was wondering how many Aways do people apply for? I was planning on doing one at my home institution and 2 aways. So do I just apply to as many aways as I want and then pick the ones I like?

I heard that declining an away after being given an offer is pretty bad and that it might ding you for interview invites. Any insight is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[napoleondynamite]

Yah, I wouldn't recommend applying for an away unless you are sure you want to do it. You may want input from those who have applied more recently, but when I was applying it seemed that even for the most competetive programs it was the early bird getting the worm kind of thing rather than an actual formal screening of your application. I think as long as you apply early, you're likely to be granted an away just about anywhere you choose..so I wouldn't cast a wide net in this situation.

 

[Sheldor]

Yah, I wouldn't recommend applying for an away unless you are sure you want to do it. You may want input from those who have applied more recently, but when I was applying it seemed that even for the most competetive programs it was the early bird getting the worm kind of thing rather than an actual formal screening of your application. I think as long as you apply early, you're likely to be granted an away just about anywhere you choose..so I wouldn't cast a wide net in this situation.

Based on my experience last year I'd go half way between napleaon's advice and your original thinking and cast a half way net 🙂

The problem is that by the time you find out if you've gotten an away its far too late for any others, which could leave you in a tricky situation. Also, make sure you research the programs now because some still don't use VSAS (MD Anderson comes to mind), and others do, but also ask for an e-mail additionally. If I were you, I'd apply to three programs per spot you have open. So sounds like you are doing two, probably one reach and one good fit? So I'd apply to three reaches and three good fits.

I got interviews at places that I "withdrew" my application, so I don't think its as big a thing. However, once you accept a spot with them you definitely don't want to withdraw. Be prepared to be surprised, when you get an offer on VSAS you have a matter of days to accept, so often the order you get the offers is what determines where you do away rotations.

This was my experience, maybe one of my other compatriots form this year had a different experience?

 

[canadianoutlaw]

Be prepared to be surprised, when you get an offer on VSAS you have a matter of days to accept, so often the order you get the offers is what determines where you do away rotations.

haha maybe NRMP should implement a Match for away rotations

 

[Sheldor]

haha maybe NRMP should implement a Match for away rotations

Don't even joke about that! Ugh

 

[napoleondynamite]

What's VSAS - is that new? Back when I applied I just contacted programs directly to apply. Sounds like things have changed..I would go with the more recent advice!

 

[Neuronix]

What's VSAS - is that new? Back when I applied I just contacted programs directly to apply. Sounds like things have changed..I would go with the more recent advice!

VSAS is another put-a-dollar-in middleman system where they collect a ton of paperwork from you and pass it on for a fee. Some programs require it, some don't. Before applying to VSAS check to see if the programs you want to apply to require VSAS or not. VSAS is a pain, and the institution will probably ask for more paperwork regardless.

My issue with aways is that some institutions are very rigid about blocks in which you can do aways. I.e. It must be this number of weeks and it can only be certain dates. So out of 4 places I was most interested in, only 2 could accommodate my schedule--1 due to institutional flexibility, and 1 due to a coordinator who didn't understand the rules and kind of made it work after the fact

 

[Sheldor]

Other away rotation advice:

1) Do you have a record of all of your immunizations? If not do two things now, first go to your schools health department and see I'd they can get you record of them (most schools require these immunizations for admission so you like proved it to them at some point). If this doesn't work, make an appointment with your primary care doc to get titers done. You will need this for every school you apply to on VSAS.

2) Other places randomly want weird stuff, but you won't know until closer which do so don't do these yet but be aware that you may need to: Get letters of rec, get a criminal background check from the police station, etc.

3) Timing is everything for these, you should submit to your programs the day it opens.

4) Don't shy away from a research rotation if the clinical spot is full. I didn't do one, but fellow applicants I know did these at big name places and got interviews there. Correlation doesn't equal causation and all that, but it certainly didn't hurt their chances.

5) If there is a rotation that you are planning on using for "big wig letters" do it first. Rad Onc big wigs are amazing people, but super busy. You don't want to be waiting on these letters on into October. Stress you don't need!

6) Goes with out saying: These are the single biggest tool you have to guide where you get interviews, use this power wisely. Don't do a rotation at UCLA if you hate LA just to "spend some time in Cali". Pick a region you are interested in, and a program in a city you are interested in. Biggest bang for your buck.

Edit: Thought of more!

7) Craigslist for sublets near the university, closer the better in this instance since you will be the first one there and the last one to leave.

8) If you have a family like I do, don't schedule two away rotations back to back. It will weigh on you, and effect your performance near the end. Do Away-Home-Away, that way you have some time at home with the family the middle. Small, but makes a big difference.

9) In addition to the SDN wisdom of one reach and one reasonable, I'd add to diversify these in terms of size. Despite what the ladies say bigger isn't always better. In fact, this hugely impacted my rank list in the end. Going in to the season I thought I wanted to be part of a bigger department for the resources, but found that I jived better with the more medium sized program and this is something you need to experience to know.

10) I got involved with research on one of my aways. Some say to do this, others say not to. I won't suggest one way or the other, but I will say that for me it was huge. It allowed me to get to know some of the faculty much better than I otherwise would have, and allowed me to do things like head and neck contouring, that again, I wouldn't have been doing on the clinical side of things.

Alright thats it for now, depending on where I match I may have additional advice 🙂

 

[napoleondynamite]

Wow, Im glad i went through this process a long time ago. Back in my day (that sounds funny since it was 7 years ago), I just cold called programs since few had guidelines on their websites and asked if I could rotate. They usually required a letter from my school and that was that. I think it took me all of 2-3 weeks to firm these up. Crazy how things change.

My experience exactly. Glad to see the trend of burgeoning beaurocracy and red tape is spilling over into every aspect of our field though..would hate for you guys to get the wrong idea about things! haha

 

[Totem]

Other away rotation advice:
5) If there is a rotation that you are planning on using for "big wig letters" do it first. Rad Onc big wigs are amazing people, but super busy. You don't want to be waiting on these letters on into October. Stress you don't need!

Sheldor is right on the money with everything above, i'll just as my 2 cents as I did 3 aways this year.

Regarding timing of rotations--I wasn't as worried about getting letters of recommendation in at the time I submitted my application sept 15th. I got three letters prior to sept 15th and a fourth in early october which was totally fine.
Remember that you only get to send 4 letters to programs and once you send them off you can't replace them. I know of an applicant who sent off 4 letters to everyone because he was waiting a while for a letter from a big name and when the big name letter finally came in he couldn't send it out because he had already sent 4 letters to every program.
For me, I chose to rotate at my home program first where I was very comfortable and could get the hang of things. Next I went to my "good chance" followed by my "reach/big name LOR". This worked well for me because I got better with every rotation and starting off with my reach/big name LOR may not have gone as well. Just my experience.

also, I applied to 2 rotations for each 4 week block I was hoping to get. I think not accepting an away rotation offer could definitely hurt you, so pick places you want to go.

Finally, i don't believe in rotating somewhere only for a LOR. There are a lots of big names out there, you might as kill two birds with one stone and impress a program that you want match at in addition to getting a good LOR.

good luck!

 

[hot sauce]

I don't think declining an away is going to be a major ding at most places if done properly. By properly I mean reasonable advanced notice and call the coordinator personally to thank him/her for the opportunity but explain you are unable to do the rotation. I would call rather just emailing to make sure that you are off the schedule (being expected and not showing up is obviously bad) and I think the personal touch of calling to say it gives a better impression.

I wouldn't apply all over the place but I think it is reasonable to apply to a couple of extras, particularly if you aren't hearing back from your first choice promptly