Question about DO schools and potentially pursuing anesthesiology.

[Kemosabe]

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I'm looking to apply very broadly to DO schools this cycle, and the speciality I'm the most interested in pursuing in residency is anesthesiology. Are there any DO schools that would limit my ability to be able to match into this discipline or are there opportunities no matter where I go as long as I do well in medical school? Some people on the pre-med MD forum make it sound like some DO schools would limit me to primary care, but I just want to make sure that's not the case (I know a good portion wouldn't). Also do DO schools generally offer students good support/resources for studying for the COMLEX and STEP 1? What resources do they generally offer students?

 

[samac]

I'm pretty sure most schools match students into anesthesiology and it won't be an issue anywhere you go as long as you have fine scores.
From what I've seen looking into DO schools offer tons of COMLEX support but little USMLE, but a current medical student might be able to comment better on that.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I'm looking to apply very broadly to DO schools this cycle, and the speciality I'm the most interested in pursuing in residency is anesthesiology. Are there any DO schools that would limit my ability to be able to match into this discipline or are there opportunities no matter where I go as long as I do well in medical school? Some people on the pre-med MD forum make it sound like some DO schools would limit me to primary care, but I just want to make sure that's not the case (I know a good portion wouldn't). Also do DO schools generally offer students good support/resources for studying for the COMLEX and STEP 1? What resources do they generally offer students?

No DO school will limit you in terms of gas. Just look at the match list. Some schools are matching more than 10 into gas.

 

[s5260205]

At the end of the day, matching is largely dependent on your own application including board scores, clerkship performance, LORs, research among others. Going DO will not limit you to primary care, and you can confirm this with the match lists from any DO schools. Are there biases against DO? Certainly. But are these biases so severe that you can't even match at any ACGME specialty? Certainly not. Going MD doesn't make you automatically competitive for derm, ortho, etc., and many MD students go unmatched in those programs (re: NRMP match results). People who say otherwise are pre-meds who haven't even gotten into a medical school.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

My school had 16 match into anesthesiology last year (6 ACGME, 10 AOA). It's certainly not impossible at all -- it's very much about you and not the school you're at.

 

[Kemosabe]

I'm pretty sure most schools match students into anesthesiology and it won't be an issue anywhere you go as long as you have fine scores.
From what I've seen looking into DO schools offer tons of COMLEX support but little USMLE, but a current medical student might be able to comment better on that.

No DO school will limit you in terms of gas. Just look at the match list. Some schools are matching more than 10 into gas.

At the end of the day, matching is largely dependent on your own application including board scores, clerkship performance, LORs, research among others. Going DO will not limit you to primary care, and you can confirm this with the match lists from any DO schools. Are there biases against DO? Certainly. But are these biases so severe that you can't even match at any ACGME specialty? Certainly not. Going MD doesn't make you automatically competitive for derm, ortho, etc., and many MD students go unmatched in those programs (re: NRMP match results). People who say otherwise are pre-meds who haven't even gotten into a medical school.

My school had 16 match into anesthesiology last year (6 ACGME, 10 AOA). It's certainly not impossible at all -- it's very much about you and not the school you're at.

Thank you.

 

[ortnakas]

One of our professors is a DO anesthesiologist. I don't think this should be a problem for you!

 

[user3]

Gas is attainable but you will probably need around 225 or higher Step 1 to have good chances for it. By comparison, for MD students, around 200 seems to be sufficient.

 

[Kemosabe]

Gas is attainable but you will probably need around 225 or higher Step 1 to have good chances for it. By comparison, for MD students, around 200 seems to be sufficient.

Good to know, thanks. Why the point discrepancy in step 1 needed between MDs and DOs though? Are there are DO only anesthesiology residencies btw? I know there was a merger, but if there are (were) MD exclusive residencies, then I figure there would be some DO only ones.

 

[evooo8]

Good to know, thanks. Why the point discrepancy in step 1 needed between MDs and DOs though? Are there are DO only anesthesiology residencies btw? I know there was a merger, but if there are (were) MD exclusive residencies, then I figure there would be some DO only ones.

Yes, AOA residencies are exclusive to DO. Merger has yet to take effect and should be gradual, merger should be complete by 2020.

 

[s5260205]

Good to know, thanks. Why the point discrepancy in step 1 needed between MDs and DOs though? Are there are DO only anesthesiology residencies btw? I know there was a merger, but if there are (were) MD exclusive residencies, then I figure there would be some DO only ones.

You can check all the AOA residency programs by going to the website (http://opportunities.osteopathic.org/search/search.cfm). The ACGME equivalent is FRIEDA. And there is no MD exclusive residency; just some programs aren't receptive to DOs.

 

[Goro]

No. My school has no problem getting people in this specialty. It seems to be one that's very DO-friendly, nationwide.

Are there any DO schools that would limit my ability to be able to match into this discipline or are there opportunities no matter where I go as long as I do well in medical school?

Yes, ignorant pre-meds are a great source of wisdom. 🙄

Some people on the pre-med MD forum make it sound like some DO schools would limit me to primary care, but I just want to make sure that's not the case (I know a good portion wouldn't).

Umm, yes. We want our students to do well, after all.
Also do DO schools generally offer students good support/resources for studying for the COMLEX and STEP 1?

Question banks, curricula and exams geared towards COMLEX; dedicated time off for COMLEX study at end of year 2. Many of us actually write test questions for COMLEX.
What resources do they generally offer students?

 

[deleted407021]

No DO school will limit you in terms of gas. Just look at the match list. Some schools are matching more than 10 into gas.

For clarification, "gas" = general anesthesiology, right? I feel as if I've seen that used in reference to gastroenterology, before.

 

[user3]

Good to know, thanks. Why the point discrepancy in step 1 needed between MDs and DOs though? Are there are DO only anesthesiology residencies btw? I know there was a merger, but if there are (were) MD exclusive residencies, then I figure there would be some DO only ones.

Nearly 90% of USMD students with 201-210 step 1 scores matched gas in 2014. There honestly aren't that many AOA programs, and a DO student with a score in this range would be unlikely to match into this specialty.

 

[user3]

No DO school will limit you in terms of gas. Just look at the match list. Some schools are matching more than 10 into gas.

Wrong. MD students pretty much just need to pass the steps to match into gas. DO students need to do around average (~225) to have a good chance.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Wrong. MD students pretty much just need to pass the steps to match into gas. DO students need to do around average (~225) to have a good chance.

There are AOA gas residencies (granted less). You don't even need to take the USLME. And USLME score alone doesn't dictate matching. Also you don't really seem to disagree with me and you are saying its attainable (not being limited). You don't think DOs can't get gas which is what I basically said.

But average MD applicant has a 230 not a 200 who goes into gas. 210 and above you seem to have a good chance matching if your US MD. If your US DO a 220 seems to be the number (taking a peak at matching outcomes). Its hard to say cause they lump DOs with Carib in independent applicants.

With the merger I believe DOs will be consider US seniors (not sure obviously). I suspect its going to get even less.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

For clarification, "gas" = general anesthesiology, right? I feel as if I've seen that used in reference to gastroenterology, before.

I'm referring to anesthesia yes.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Nearly 90% of USMD students with 201-210 step 1 scores matched gas in 2014. There honestly aren't that many AOA programs, and a DO student with a score in this range would be unlikely to match into this specialty.

An applicant with a 210 has a 90 percent chance. Not 201-210. In comparasion independent applicants have a 50 percent chance at 210. DOs probably have a 70-80 percent chance at 210 (hard to say). IMG/FMG probably has a 20-30 percent chance.

 

[pattr]

Courtesy of cliquesh:

It's realistic, as a DO, to match at:

A top tier pyschiatry, family medicine, anesthesia, PM&R or pathology program.

A mid-tier internal medicine, neurology, pediatric, Ob/gyn or emergency medicine program

A mid to low tier general surgery or radiology program.

It's also realistic to match AOA orthopedics and general surgery, as well as emergency medicine, family medicine, pediatrics, internal medicine, psych and Ob/gyn.

It's unrealistic to match Acgme orthopedics, neurosurgery, urology, ENT, derm, radiation oncology and plastic surgery. Ophthamology may or may not be unrealistic (not enough data to determine).

It's unrealistic to match aoa surgical subspecialities, except for aoa general surgery and orthopedics, because there are so few spots ( 14 neurosurgery, 24 ENT, 17 urology, and 15 opthamology). This is in contrast to the 135 general surgery spots and 100 orthopedic spots offered last year.

Similar there are few AOA anesthesia, radiology, and derm spots (about 30 for each speciality). However, acgme anesthesia is very DO friendly and acgme radiology is pretty DO friendly. AOA derm is weird because you don't apply as a 4th year, you apply as an intern, so I don't know how realistic aoa derm is.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Courtesy of cliquesh:

Its a good general overview but not always 100%. Touro just matched derm at Rutgers. Pcom has matched optho at Upitt and drexel.

There are exceptions to the rule! Plus it is continually getting better.

 

[pattr]

Its a good general overview but not always 100%. Touro just matched derm at Rutgers. Pcom has matched optho at Upitt and drexel.

There are exceptions to the rule! Plus it is continually getting better.

Definitely. That post was originally written in mid 2013 so things are still changing. I would probably alter it to say it's now realistic to match low tier ACGME ophthalmology. It's also getting much more obtainable to match into ACGME radiology. I think the other surgical subspecialties (ortho, ENT, plastics, urology, neurosurgery), rad onc, and derm are still crapshoots on the ACGME side though.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Definitely. That post was originally written in mid 2013 so things are still changing. I would probably alter it to say it's now realistic to match low tier ACGME ophthalmology. It's also getting much more obtainable to match into ACGME radiology. I think the other surgical subspecialties (ortho, ENT, plastics, urology, neurosurgery), rad onc, and derm are still crapshoots on the ACGME side though.

Its going to be interesting to see what unattainable stuff becomes attainable in the future.

 

[user3]

An applicant with a 210 has a 90 percent chance. Not 201-210. In comparasion independent applicants have a 50 percent chance at 210. DOs probably have a 70-80 percent chance at 210 (hard to say). IMG/FMG probably has a 20-30 percent chance.

NRMP should definitely release a charting outcomes for DO students. They have data for USMD, IMG, and FMG but nothing for DO students.

@cliquesh , how would you rate the odds of a DO student with <220 Step 1 matching anesthesiology?

 

[UBC2014]

Those must be some pretty rough programs taking students with 200 step scores... when the average for a US students is 229.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

NRMP should definitely release a charting outcomes for DO students. They have data for USMD, IMG, and FMG but nothing for DO students.

@cliquesh , how would you rate the odds of a DO student with <220 Step 1 matching anesthesiology?

Yep its certainly makes it more difficult. However I think that soon they will just group them with MDs as US seniors due to the merger.

 

[cliquesh]

NRMP should definitely release a charting outcomes for DO students. They have data for USMD, IMG, and FMG but nothing for DO students.

@cliquesh , how would you rate the odds of a DO student with <220 Step 1 matching anesthesiology?

I'm not sure. I know someone that had a 220 on step 1 and a 500 level 1. They applied to 60 programs and got like 25 interviews. I think you could safely get in somewhere with a 210 to 220. I don't know about a sub-210. I personally don't know anyone with a sub 220 that applied to anesthesia.

Anyway, to the OP, I'm a DO anesthesia resident in an acgme program. Being a DO is fine in the anesthesia world. Many top programs take DOs. If you score a 220 on the usmle you will likely match at a university program.