Question about DO..

[Lord Vader]

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I'm considering following the DO path since I didn't do as well as I wanted to on my MCATs. However, I have a few questions.

1. Do you have the same opportunties availible to you when you become a DO? For example, will you get the same chance at a residency an MD would?

2. Is the quality of the education at DO schools on-par with the quality of education at MD schools?

3. Is it possible to pursue a combined path in research/patient care once you graduate with a DO? I would really like to do research once I graduate.

 

[judasreznor]

1. Yes. The key is working hard.
2. Yes.
3. Yes. Kind of rare, but not impossible. It's probably not common because of the population that usually go to D.O. programs (desire to be clinicians vs. medical scientists).

 

[Lord Vader]

I see.. I would actually be interested in research combined with patient care... If you are a DO is it possible to do research at an allopathic school?

 

[Petypet]

DO/PhDs are less common than MD/PhD, however I will likely end up DO/PhD as I am liking some of the DO schools as well as already having my PhD. To do research as a DO, you will need some sort of initial opportunity to demonstrate you can run a lab, which may or may not be available at your DO institution. Most researching clinicians are at academic (usually big) institutions, which DOs can get jobs fairly routinely at, but you need to find a niche to start your path into research. There may be, not always, better opportunities for research at MD schools, but if you find a DO institution that allows or encourages research then you are set.

 

[Stan The Man]

I have to disagree with the response given that residency opportunities are the same whether DO or MD. Although every residency will have different statistics, alot of the more competitive residencies are much easier to attain as an MD then a DO. I can't remember exactly, but, for instance, there were about 3 MD orthopedic residency positions for every DO and thats counting the residencies set aside for DO's only and for the DO's that get into a MD ortho residency. This also takes into account that there are about a quarter as many DO's than MD's. Just go to nrmp.org and look at the statistics they have and compare the two. Every residency type (except for maybe the normal ones) are atleast a little bit easier for an MD to get into then a DO and some are 10x harder (given the statistics).

 

[sideways]

I have to disagree with the response given that residency opportunities are the same whether DO or MD. Although every residency will have different statistics, alot of the more competitive residencies are much easier to attain as an MD then a DO. I can't remember exactly, but, for instance, there were about 3 MD orthopedic residency positions for every DO and thats counting the residencies set aside for DO's only and for the DO's that get into a MD ortho residency. This also takes into account that there are about a quarter as many DO's than MD's. Just go to nrmp.org and look at the statistics they have and compare the two. Every residency type (except for maybe the normal ones) are atleast a little bit easier for an MD to get into then a DO and some are 10x harder (given the statistics).

Most DO's interested in ortho end up going into DO ortho residencies due to the fact that if you match into a DO residency, you are withdrawn from the allo match. For a DO to end up in allo ortho, they basically have to not apply for DO ortho - needless to say, that's a huge gamble that most aren't willing to take.

The same strategy applies to all competitive specialties and thus artificially reduces DO representation in competitive allo residencies.

 

[slarveson]

so you can't take both tests (USMLE and the DO one) and apply for both and take whichever one you get and drop out of the other should you get accepted to both? You would have to do a bit better then an MD to take his spot in an allo ortho residency so alot riskier then just applying for the DO ortho residencies (if what you say is true), so why would a DO ever apply to an allo residency seeing that statistically he/she would be more likely to get into a DO res? I believe what the previous poster said but just wondering if that is 100% true (that you can't apply for both)?

 

[sideways]

so you can't take both tests (USMLE and the DO one) and apply for both and take whichever one you get and drop out of the other should you get accepted to both? You would have to do a bit better then an MD to take his spot in an allo ortho residency so alot riskier then just applying for the DO ortho residencies (if what you say is true), so why would a DO ever apply to an allo residency seeing that statistically he/she would be more likely to get into a DO res? I believe what the previous poster said but just wondering if that is 100% true (that you can't apply for both)?

You can apply for both (even with only taking COMLEX and not the USMLE, though it's recommended to take both for the more competitive specialties). However, the DO match takes place before the MD match. So if you successfully match in the DO match you are obligated to take that match and are automatically removed from the MD match.

So if you're dead-set on the MD match, say for ortho, then you shouldn't apply to the DO ortho match at all. Because if you get into the DO residency, you are no longer eligible for the MD ortho match.

 

[slarveson]

Sideways: let me rephrase my question because i just read your post again....the first part of your post basically says that if you get accepted to an allo res, then your DO application gets withdrawn (or something like that), which makes me think that you can apply to both and take whichever one you get. But the second part of your post basically says that if you apply for allo then you might as well not apply to DO in the first place which is the "risk" you were talking about. So can you apply to both (after taking both USMLE and the DO pre-residency test) and take whichever one you get or can you only apply for one or the other?

 

[slarveson]

sorry, i typed this while you already answered my question. I guess the question now becomes: how much better than an MD do you have to be to take the spot away for an allo res?

 

[ccc2009]

so you can't take both tests (USMLE and the DO one) and apply for both and take whichever one you get and drop out of the other should you get accepted to both? You would have to do a bit better then an MD to take his spot in an allo ortho residency so alot riskier then just applying for the DO ortho residencies (if what you say is true), so why would a DO ever apply to an allo residency seeing that statistically he/she would be more likely to get into a DO res? I believe what the previous poster said but just wondering if that is 100% true (that you can't apply for both)?

not sure if ur asking a question.. but from what i have read on sdn/heard from med students majority dont take the USMLEs as well, but you are allowed to and it is highly recommended if u want to apply to MD residencies since they dont really have a "fair" way of comparing the COMLEX ( DO ) with the USMLE (MD). There are some rubrics given out by the some organizations in regards to comparing the scores but i dont think it is very accurate.

I have to disagree with the response given that residency opportunities are the same whether DO or MD. Although every residency will have different statistics, alot of the more competitive residencies are much easier to attain as an MD then a DO. I can't remember exactly, but, for instance, there were about 3 MD orthopedic residency positions for every DO and thats counting the residencies set aside for DO's only and for the DO's that get into a MD ortho residency. This also takes into account that there are about a quarter as many DO's than MD's. Just go to nrmp.org and look at the statistics they have and compare the two. Every residency type (except for maybe the normal ones) are atleast a little bit easier for an MD to get into then a DO and some are 10x harder (given the statistics).

um.. wondering whether you are referring to medical students or practicing physicians. IN 2005, about 11% of all physicians were DOs in the U.S. and even in terms of medical students it is currently about 1 in every 6 medical students is a DO, although it is increasing at a high rate.

 

[sideways]

sorry, i typed this while you already answered my question. I guess the question now becomes: how much better than an MD do you have to be to take the spot away for an allo res?

There's no answer to that question. For most specialties it's a non-issue. If you're a solid candidate, you'll have no issue getting an allo residency. For the very competitive specialities, you have to be like everyone else, very impressive. No one is guaranteed a very competitive residency. That's why most DOs who want the most competitive **** apply to both MD and DO. If their **** doesn't stink, they'll get into the DO residency, be pulled from the MD match, and move on with their life.

 

[slarveson]

Yeah, i could be wrong CCC2009, i thought there were roughly 19,000 MD med students (In U.S.) compared to 5,000ish DO students? (Talking about med school spots and not residency spots)

 

[Skippygonenuts]

What about prematching (which is fairly rare). Does it occur with DOs of only Caribbean MDs?

 

[nlax30]

What about prematching (which is fairly rare). Does it occur with DOs of only Caribbean MDs?

In the allo match DO's are considered "independent agents" as well so I have heard of DO students being offered an allo spot outside of the match. I have no idea how often it happens and would assume it's not that common at competitive programs since they are already getting plenty of quality applicants.

 

[Skippygonenuts]

In the allo match DO's are considered "independent agents" as well so I have heard of DO students being offered an allo spot outside of the match. I have no idea how often it happens and would assume it's not that common at competitive programs since they are already getting plenty of quality applicants.

Thanks!