Question about ECs

[RG73]

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I posted this question in the pre-DO forum, but I haven't got a response there, so I figured since I'm a non-trad, and this is sort of a question that would pertain mostly to non-trads I'd attempt to get an answer here.

So as a brief background, I'm one of those crazy PhDs (microbiology) who has decided it would be a great idea to spend another decade or so in school. Now onwards to my questions:

How does one go about listing scientific publications on the AACOMAS application? I'm not quite sure that falls under the "EC" category, but I don't really see another place to put it. On a related note, is it acceptable to list posters and talks presented at scientific conferences, as well as invited talks? These are things I would naturally list on my CV, so I would imagine that I'd want to list them on the application as well.

An unrelated issue I have a question with is where one is prompted to enter "average hours per week" for a given EC. So I have certain activities, say physician shadowing, where I have shadowed a particular physician a few times over several months. Per day this winds up being 8-10 hours, but it doesn't really make sense to average it over a week since it is not a regular activity. So do I put, say 10 hours a week (since on those weeks that I have shadowed it's 10 hours), or average over the whole span of time (so, for example, 20 hours total over 2 months being 2.5 hours/week)? I have other activities listed that are kind of irregular like this. I am a reviewer for a journal, but I'll get sent a manuscript to review once every 3-4 months. And then I'll spend a lot of time on a review for a week, and then nothing for the next few months. Moreover, it's kind of difficult to judge total hours on these things since I never bothered to keep track. I feel I should list it though since it does fall somewhere under the umbrella of leadership/service activities.

Thanks to anyone who can give me any advice and guidance on this.

 

[ChandutheMagici]

So as a brief background, I'm one of those crazy PhDs (microbiology) who has decided it would be a great idea to spend another decade or so in school.

Hahaha, nice.

How does one go about listing scientific publications on the AACOMAS application? I'm not quite sure that falls under the "EC" category, but I don't really see another place to put it.

I'm sure I've done nowhere near the research you have, but I have done two poster presentations and had one paper published. I didn't label them at all on AACOMAS. Mostly because when they're talking about EC's I think they're more concerned with volunteering, shadowing, etc.. Now, I did put them in every secondary I had with the exception of one (VCOM - obvious research is not a focus for them). So that would be my suggestion because right off the bat admin people (and I've been told this by several) are looking at the MCAT/GPA combo to send secondaries.

On a related note, is it acceptable to list posters and talks presented at scientific conferences, as well as invited talks?

Yup, but again my suggestion would be to hold off until secondaries.

An unrelated issue I have a question with is where one is prompted to enter "average hours per week" for a given EC. So I have certain activities, say physician shadowing, where I have shadowed a particular physician a few times over several months. Per day this winds up being 8-10 hours, but it doesn't really make sense to average it over a week since it is not a regular activity. So do I put, say 10 hours a week (since on those weeks that I have shadowed it's 10 hours), or average over the whole span of time (so, for example, 20 hours total over 2 months being 2.5 hours/week)? I have other activities listed that are kind of irregular like this.

Average the whole span of time. Even though the per week thing is in there, when I was applying I was told they're looking at total number of EC hours. So, the per week thing is a bit irrelevant, but ya gotta do it.

I am a reviewer for a journal, but I'll get sent a manuscript to review once every 3-4 months. And then I'll spend a lot of time on a review for a week, and then nothing for the next few months. Moreover, it's kind of difficult to judge total hours on these things since I never bothered to keep track. I feel I should list it though since it does fall somewhere under the umbrella of leadership/service activities.

Thanks to anyone who can give me any advice and guidance on this.

IMO, You are correct that journal reviewing should be put under leadership/service activities. Do you get paid for this? Either way that is where it should go. Estimate the best you can for hours (as I did with my military service). Just make sure not to overestimate. I'm sure what you have done will be good enough regardless.

Take care and good luck.

 

[RG73]

Thanks for the response.

One more question comes to mind: currently on my application I'm listing some research I did as a Ugrad (though it was 10 years ago) as an EC (since it was at the time and some of it wasn't for credit). Is that kosher? I'm listing it mostly because it is sort of medically relevant and super cool (I got to help draw blood and do MRIs on elephant seals). Well, ok, I'm geek, so of course I think sticking a 400 lb elephant seal in an MRI is awesome.

 

[ChandutheMagici]

Thanks for the response.

One more question comes to mind: currently on my application I'm listing some research I did as a Ugrad (though it was 10 years ago) as an EC (since it was at the time and some of it wasn't for credit). Is that kosher?

As long as you actually did the research, you're fine. I would still hold off until secondaries though. Just my opinion.

 

[RG73]

I did indeed do the research. Although all I got was a mere acknowledgement in the paper.

Anyway, thanks for your responses.

As I've been working my way through this, I have a few more....

On the leadership front, the vast majority of my leadership experiences have been work related, either as a Teaching Assistant, or, as a postdoc, running a research lab, hiring undergrads, training them, running an REU program, getting high school kids involved in research, etc. Presently I have that down under work experience. Is it necessary to also list this sort of under the EC/Service section? I would think from my job descriptions it will be evident these are "leadership" experiences. But my volunteer work has largely been as a mere lackey, so I don't know if that hurts me or not.

Another question I have is in going through the various threads on here about ECs, I've seen people list things like "going to the gym" or various sports activities. Going to the gym seems a bit absurd, since you might as well list eating and sleeping and walking and other routine activities. However, I have been doing martial arts consistently both within school clubs and non-school clubs for the last decade or so, and have been competing, and so I figure something like that is worth listing as evidence of the broadness of my interests, and my self-discipline and consistency. That, and my masochistic streak, which should give the adcoms all the proof they need that I'm ready for the beating of medical school. Likewise, I was a member of a rowing and kayaking club and did that rather consistently, so I'm presently listing that. So I figure things that I do outside of work/school consistently, but aren't necessary for survival (as I would argue the aforementioned 'going to the gym' is) ought to be included, no?

Thanks again for any suggestions/input.

 

[Blahblahologist]

I'm in a similar situation. I was a professional writer for several years before going back to school, and publications and the occasional reading at a conference were a major part of my professional life.

I'm putting both in the activities section. They're going to paint a more accurate (and I hope unique) picture than many of activities I did eight or nine years ago in college. Certainly put in your best volunteer and shadowing experiences, too, but if I give short shrift to that afterschool program where I took local gradeschoolers trick-or-treating or my involvement with the dorm innertube waterpolo team, I don't think anyone is missing out.

 

[Krisss17]

Another question I have is in going through the various threads on here about ECs, I've seen people list things like "going to the gym" or various sports activities. Going to the gym seems a bit absurd, since you might as well list eating and sleeping and walking and other routine activities. However, I have been doing martial arts consistently both within school clubs and non-school clubs for the last decade or so, and have been competing, and so I figure something like that is worth listing as evidence of the broadness of my interests, and my self-discipline and consistency. That, and my masochistic streak, which should give the adcoms all the proof they need that I'm ready for the beating of medical school. Likewise, I was a member of a rowing and kayaking club and did that rather consistently, so I'm presently listing that. So I figure things that I do outside of work/school consistently, but aren't necessary for survival (as I would argue the aforementioned 'going to the gym' is) ought to be included, no?

Thanks again for any suggestions/input.

I think that your involvement with martial arts is definitely a good EC to put onto your application. I think it shows a great deal of self-discipline and just from seeing the amount of time that my nephew puts into it, you'll want to account for these hours.

As for what some put on their mdapp/SDN...I would take it all with a grain of salt. Considering that one only has 168 hours in a week, how are some of these applicants getting all of these ECs done? Between classes, studying for classes, working and basically just living (sleeping/eating/etc.), I'll have maybe 5-10 hours IF, to do some kind of EC.