Question about Leadership

[danielterrones]

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"Leadership" is something that I know schools want to see. As a non-traditional student I'm finding it difficult to put myself into a leadership position because frankly, I just don't have any more time on my hands.

I have a family of 4 kids + wife. I work 25 hours a week, I volunteer about 3-5 hours a week (helping build parks in los angeles county), and I go to school full-time.

Question: Is being a father of 4 kids and a husband "good enough" to fulfill that "unsaid" requirement of leadership? If not, any ideas on what I can do in my current situation (without taking more time) to implment leadership?

Thank you SND!!!!

 

[QofQuimica]

Most nontrads already have leadership experience; they just don't realize it. If you think about it, you almost certainly have some aspects of your job or home life that lend themselves to you taking on a leadership role. For example, do you do any activities with your kids where you're helping coordinate things, such as coaching their teams, tutoring them, PTA, fundraisers, etc.? How about at work; do you ever mentor new employees or teach people how to do things? Are you on any committees or otherwise involved with process improvement? At your volunteering gig, do you ever lead project teams? You may be able to come up with some other examples. But the point is that you don't have to be named president of a club in order to be engaging in leadership roles.

 

[danielterrones]

Thank you Q! 🙂

 

[econ2med]

Most nontrads already have leadership experience; they just don't realize it. If you think about it, you almost certainly have some aspects of your job or home life that lend themselves to you taking on a leadership role. For example, do you do any activities with your kids where you're helping coordinate things, such as coaching their teams, tutoring them, PTA, fundraisers, etc.? How about at work; do you ever mentor new employees or teach people how to do things? Are you on any committees or otherwise involved with process improvement? At your volunteering gig, do you ever lead project teams? You may be able to come up with some other examples. But the point is that you don't have to be named president of a club in order to be engaging in leadership roles.

I have a question. Given the same maturity and compared to someone who is the president of a premed club or first author on a research paper, won't these guys beat out the tutoring/coaching/pta guy nine times out of ten?

 

[ridethecliche]

Given that college group titles are given out like candy and the responsibility is minimal with little risk, non-trads that have work experience and leadership roles in their community tend to be taking a lot more on especially given their other responsibilities.

Short answer: Not really.

 

[QofQuimica]

I have a question. Given the same maturity and compared to someone who is the president of a premed club or first author on a research paper, won't these guys beat out the tutoring/coaching/pta guy nine times out of ten?

Admissions decisions don't work like that. There is no "president of the premed club" leadership box for the app reviewers to check off. At my school, we had about half a dozen holistic categories that applicants were ranked in, such as academic preparedness for medical school, dedication to a career in medicine, and commitment to serving others (and, since it was a high power research-intensive school, potential to become a future leader in medicine). How each individual candidate provides evidence for their fitness in each of these categories varies widely.

 

[econ2med]

Admissions decisions don't work like that. There is no "president of the premed club" leadership box for the app reviewers to check off. At my school, we had about half a dozen holistic categories that applicants were ranked in, such as academic preparedness for medical school, dedication to a career in medicine, and commitment to serving others (and, since it was a high power research-intensive school, potential to become a future leader in medicine). How each individual candidate provides evidence for their fitness in each of these categories varies widely.

Very interesting. So being a first author on a research paper would rank you high in 'potential to become future leader...' category? Given that research is hard to come by as a non traditional student, would this category preclude nontrads from entering research intensive medical schools?

What other holistic categories were there?

 

[QofQuimica]

On the contrary, there are many nontrads with extensive research and academic experience. I came into med school with 9-10 years of full time research and two years of part time research experience, not to mention an MS and a PhD. I also had been an instructor for the university, had done research abroad at two field sites, and was published. Unless a trad had dropped out of elementary school to start working in a lab during third grade, there's no way they'd be able to come anywhere close to my research background. But they didn't have to. We considered 2-3 years of full time research experience as maxing out that category. That can be done by someone who takes 2-3 years off after college, or who works full time in a lab during college summers x4 and takes 1-2 years off, or possibly someone who works part time in a lab during all of college and goes to med school with no gap if they're involved with an independent project from the get go. There is no expectation that a researcher be published at the UG level, which is why it's impressive when they manage to do it.

Other categories were personal character and professionalism, which nontrads tend to have long track records in.

In general, med school adcoms are looking for the whole package, not a one hit wonder. Work to be well-rounded and distinguish yourself in many areas (including academics) if you want to be a successful applicant. And longer track records are always better than shorter ones. That's where being a nontrad with many years of involvement in an activity can work to your advantage.

 

[danielterrones]

@QofQuimica , I'm glad that you responded thoroughly. I forget sometimes that as a non-trad I actually have some advantages; ie. professional experience, family support/motivation, and overall life experience. I'm glad to hear that adcoms are not just looking for high stats (gpa+mcat), but rather they look at the student as a whole package.

Thank you!

 

[QofQuimica]

@QofQuimica , I'm glad that you responded thoroughly. I forget sometimes that as a non-trad I actually have some advantages; ie. professional experience, family support/motivation, and overall life experience. I'm glad to hear that adcoms are not just looking for high stats (gpa+mcat), but rather they look at the student as a whole package.

Thank you!

It all matters. There isn't any one thing that makes someone a rock star candidate for med school. A lot of nontrads struggle with admissions because stats-wise, their academic records are significantly poorer compared to younger students. Stats do matter a lot to adcoms, and the life experience of nontrads does not make adcoms overlook a subpar MCAT or GPA. On the other hand, nontrads with stellar stats tend to be very highly sought after, even by schools that people tend not to think of as "nontrad-friendly." That's because these candidates have a lot more going for them than just their high stats. There is no formula you can follow to be a rock star applicant. These are people who are strong in every holistic category, and they tend to have unique accomplishments that set them above their peers, PLUS they often have stellar stats.

 

[econ2med]

On the contrary, there are many nontrads with extensive research and academic experience. I came into med school with 9-10 years of full time research and two years of part time research experience, not to mention an MS and a PhD. I also had been an instructor for the university, had done research abroad at two field sites, and was published. Unless a trad had dropped out of elementary school to start working in a lab during third grade, there's no way they'd be able to come anywhere close to my research background. But they didn't have to. We considered 2-3 years of full time research experience as maxing out that category. That can be done by someone who takes 2-3 years off after college, or who works full time in a lab during college summers x4 and takes 1-2 years off, or possibly someone who works part time in a lab during all of college and goes to med school with no gap if they're involved with an independent project from the get go. There is no expectation that a researcher be published at the UG level, which is why it's impressive when they manage to do it.

Other categories were personal character and professionalism, which nontrads tend to have long track records in.

In general, med school adcoms are looking for the whole package, not a one hit wonder. Work to be well-rounded and distinguish yourself in many areas (including academics) if you want to be a successful applicant. And longer track records are always better than shorter ones. That's where being a nontrad with many years of involvement in an activity can work to your advantage.

Thanks for the info. I actually happened to randomly meet a resident who was on the admissions committee for my city's medical school at starbucks this evening. He basically told me the exact same thing that there is not a single path towards medical school. There are many routes. With him was another resident who was an english major and volunteered for 'teach for america?'(Some volunteering/teaching organization). The most important thing he said was that you should do what you enjoy and do it for a long period of time.

 

[LupaCupcake]

I am a strong advocate for showing them why being nontrad is a PLUS not a minus. We have life skills , maturity and experience that the youngins don't have lol. Not to mention it is often harder on us going the premed route. Use that to your advantage. Sell it!!