Question about Letter of Intent

[456432]

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I'm hearing conflicting views on this, so I was hoping SDN could give me a good answer lol

 

[carboxylicpremed]

As a follow-up to your question, what if the school says they welcome Letters of Intent on their website? And you have extremely strong ties to the school and it's your absolute top choice/a top school?

Could you just submit a letter of intent after your interview to demonstrate that you'd definitely go since they explicitly mention them, or try to mention those things in the interview/maybe post wait-list since a student letter is pretty non-binding and I assume not that relevant

 

[KnightDoc]

I'm hearing conflicting views on this, so I was hoping SDN could give me a good answer lol

It totally depends on the school. Some schools actively solicit them and weigh them heavily, while other schools just don't care and give them no weight at all. No use worrying about it until you find yourself on WLs, know what your other options are, and know which category your schools fall into.

 

[Talldoctor96]

It totally depends on the school. When I asked at VCU she literally laughed (dean of admissions) and said it really doesn’t weigh much. At Loyola, I know it influenced the committee to accept me right off the bat. Overall: school specific, and at most schools doesn’t carry a ton of weight.

 

[Goro]

I'm hearing conflicting views on this, so I was hoping SDN could give me a good answer lol

Most admissions Deans treat them as lies. How would you interpret a nonbinding contract from a desperate candidate?

From the wise Med Ed: [What med schools…] accept and desire are two different things. My institution, for instance, will accept practically anything a given applicant wants to forward along, but only rarely do we consider it a worthwhile addition to the package.

And yes, some of us have gotten a little jaded about LOI's. I could fill a barrel with all the post-interview correspondence I have received that has not translated into a single matriculant. This has all gotten mighty complicated and burdensome for what is essentially a zero sum game.

It's generally not burdensome for an applicant to upload something to the portal, and once in a great while it does tip us off with some useful info. I can think of one individual who had a stellar application, like Harvard/Yale/Stanford-worthy, and a superb interview, who sent us several updates and a LOI. We were somewhat perplexed by this person's tenacious interest in our program. Turns out there were family/geographical reasons behind the whole thing, the applicant just never felt comfortable directly playing that card.

When it comes down to waitlist time I will scan through what folks have uploaded post-interview. The vast majority of times it has no impact. Occasionally I have seen it hurt people's chances. Come to think of it, in my experience this is probably more likely, than such correspondence having a positive impact.

See the following for classic examples of why most Admissions deans treat these as lies.

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/loi-and-interviews.1252832/#post-18849958

I told a school I'd go if accepted, now not so sure

Hi All, So earlier this year I was waitlisted at a school that was my undoubted first choice. My boyfriend (we are applying together) was accepted there a month or so ago, and so we decided that we'd send the admissions staff a letter, basically saying "If you accept Not A Troll, we will both...

forums.studentdoctor.net

And if you still don’t believe me, read these:

HomeSkool's Guide to Letters of Intent

Second letter of intent? Help!

 

[Talldoctor96]

Most admissions Deans treat them as lies. How would you interpret a nonbinding contract from a desperate candidate?

From the wise Med Ed: [What med schools…] accept and desire are two different things. My institution, for instance, will accept practically anything a given applicant wants to forward along, but only rarely do we consider it a worthwhile addition to the package.

And yes, some of us have gotten a little jaded about LOI's. I could fill a barrel with all the post-interview correspondence I have received that has not translated into a single matriculant. This has all gotten mighty complicated and burdensome for what is essentially a zero sum game.

It's generally not burdensome for an applicant to upload something to the portal, and once in a great while it does tip us off with some useful info. I can think of one individual who had a stellar application, like Harvard/Yale/Stanford-worthy, and a superb interview, who sent us several updates and a LOI. We were somewhat perplexed by this person's tenacious interest in our program. Turns out there were family/geographical reasons behind the whole thing, the applicant just never felt comfortable directly playing that card.

When it comes down to waitlist time I will scan through what folks have uploaded post-interview. The vast majority of times it has no impact. Occasionally I have seen it hurt people's chances. Come to think of it, in my experience this is probably more likely, than such correspondence having a positive impact.

See the following for classic examples of why most Admissions deans treat these as lies.

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/loi-and-interviews.1252832/#post-18849958

I told a school I'd go if accepted, now not so sure

Hi All, So earlier this year I was waitlisted at a school that was my undoubted first choice. My boyfriend (we are applying together) was accepted there a month or so ago, and so we decided that we'd send the admissions staff a letter, basically saying "If you accept Not A Troll, we will both...

forums.studentdoctor.net

And if you still don’t believe me, read these:

HomeSkool's Guide to Letters of Intent

Second letter of intent? Help!

Schools like georgrtown and Loyola are some of the few remaining that really honor it. And agree, every year there’s at least a few posts and comments from kids admitting to sending many LOIs to different schools.

 

[Goro]

Schools like georgrtown and Loyola are some of the few remaining that really honor it. And agree, every year there’s at least a few posts and comments from kids admitting to sending many LOIs to different schools.

There are indeed needy schools, like Gtown, Jefferson, Mayo, and U Penn

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

There are indeed needy schools, like Gtown, Jefferson, Mayo, and U Penn

so basically stats wh0res, needy, greedy, trailer park and old fashioned?

 

[456432]

Most admissions Deans treat them as lies. How would you interpret a nonbinding contract from a desperate candidate?

From the wise Med Ed: [What med schools…] accept and desire are two different things. My institution, for instance, will accept practically anything a given applicant wants to forward along, but only rarely do we consider it a worthwhile addition to the package.

And yes, some of us have gotten a little jaded about LOI's. I could fill a barrel with all the post-interview correspondence I have received that has not translated into a single matriculant. This has all gotten mighty complicated and burdensome for what is essentially a zero sum game.

It's generally not burdensome for an applicant to upload something to the portal, and once in a great while it does tip us off with some useful info. I can think of one individual who had a stellar application, like Harvard/Yale/Stanford-worthy, and a superb interview, who sent us several updates and a LOI. We were somewhat perplexed by this person's tenacious interest in our program. Turns out there were family/geographical reasons behind the whole thing, the applicant just never felt comfortable directly playing that card.

When it comes down to waitlist time I will scan through what folks have uploaded post-interview. The vast majority of times it has no impact. Occasionally I have seen it hurt people's chances. Come to think of it, in my experience this is probably more likely, than such correspondence having a positive impact.

See the following for classic examples of why most Admissions deans treat these as lies.

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/loi-and-interviews.1252832/#post-18849958

I told a school I'd go if accepted, now not so sure

Hi All, So earlier this year I was waitlisted at a school that was my undoubted first choice. My boyfriend (we are applying together) was accepted there a month or so ago, and so we decided that we'd send the admissions staff a letter, basically saying "If you accept Not A Troll, we will both...

forums.studentdoctor.net

And if you still don’t believe me, read these:

HomeSkool's Guide to Letters of Intent

Second letter of intent? Help!

So what you're saying is there's nothing we can do (if we're on the waitlist) to facilitate movement off the waitlist? Is it 100% a waiting game at that point?

 

[Goro]

So what you're saying is there's nothing we can do (if we're on the waitlist) to facilitate movement off the waitlist? Is it 100% a waiting game at that point?

Updates can be useful if they significant, and the schools welcome them.

But overall, there's very little that gets you off the list.

 

[KnightDoc]

Updates can be useful if they significant, and the schools welcome them.

But overall, there's very little that gets you off the list.

This^^^^^. After all, everyone on the WL is in the same position. Sure, some want it more than others, and that will be evidenced if and when they receive a call. Ultimately, what facilitates movement off the WL is the same thing that landed you on the WL -- the strength of your application, not so much how desperate you are for an A.

Some schools do use intensity of interest as a tie breaker, especially at the end of the cycle when yield is a concern and they are choosing between very similarly situated candidates, some of whom are already have another A at a "better" school and are clearly less motivated to receive the coveted A. But, in general, if it were that simple, most of us would be headed to Harvard! 😎

 

[Talldoctor96]

This^^^^^. After all, everyone on the WL is in the same position. Sure, some want it more than others, and that will be evidenced if and when they receive a call. Ultimately, what facilitates movement off the WL is the same thing that landed you on the WL -- the strength of your application, not so much how desperate you are for an A.

Some schools do use intensity of interest as a tie breaker, especially at the end of the cycle when yield is a concern and they are choosing between very similarly situated candidates, some of whom are already have another A at a "better" school and are clearly less motivated to receive the coveted A. But, in general, if it were that simple, most of us would be headed to Harvard! 😎

The reality is, the reality is an applicant has their opportunity to put in the work and prove to the school that they belong in their primary, secondary and interview. After that it is largely out of the applicants control.

 

[lacrossegirl420]

from what i've gathered LOI's rarely help and can sometimes hurt

 

[Talldoctor96]

from what i've gathered LOI's rarely help and can sometimes hurt

Idk I don’t think they hurt .... they just usually don’t work

 

[456432]

Occasionally I have seen it hurt people's chances. Come to think of it, in my experience this is probably more likely, than such correspondence having a positive impact.

LOI's rarely help and can sometimes hurt

How do they hurt your chances? That just makes zero sense to me lol

 

[Goro]

How do they hurt your chances? That just makes zero sense to me lol

Because admissions Deans know that you're lying

 

[carboxylicpremed]

Because admissions Deans know that you're lying

Does that change at all if you have extremely strong ties to the school & location and it's a ""top tier"" school, so in basically every way it makes sense that it's your #1? Or is that already going to show in your interviews

 

[Goro]

Does that change at all if you have extremely strong ties to the school & location and it's a ""top tier"" school, so in basically every way it makes sense that it's your #1? Or is that already going to show in your interviews

Mentioning ties to the area is a good, but just mentioning "because it's a Top School"? That's like the guy at the bar saying to the hot chick "But I'll still respect you in the morning!!"

I'll reiterate that Admissions Deans have seem a gazillion of these things, and have learned from history the people say a lot of things they have no intention of following through on.

 

[KnightDoc]

Because admissions Deans know that you're lying

I think the correct answer is when it is actually read and it turns out to have been poorly written. Just like everything else, every interaction is an opportunity to impress or to screw up.

Nothing, from an interaction with staff in an office to banter with a tour guide or a LOI, should be approached with the view that it could only help. If the LOI is clearly BS, inconsistent with the rest of your application or your interview, has grammatical mistakes or typos, etc., common sense dictates that it could be held against you.

I've been on SDN for a year and a half now, and it is clear that neurotic people who feel desperate simply cannot help themselves, so many send LOIs all over the place as winter turns to spring and they are trying to stimulate WL movement. Personally, I will not bother when my time comes UNLESS the school has explicitly indicated that it would be receptive (if in doubt, I will ask!), AND it was a school that I REALLY wanted. Hopefully, I'd have another A at the time, because I don't think such letters are especially persuasive when the candidate has no other choices.

 

[KnightDoc]

Does that change at all if you have extremely strong ties to the school & location and it's a ""top tier"" school, so in basically every way it makes sense that it's your #1? Or is that already going to show in your interviews

I think the higher the ranking of the school, the less they care about being your #1 and the more they assume they are everyone's #1! 😎

 

[Goro]

right definitely not mentioning that, I just mean that in combination with geographical ties (where I was born and raised, immediate family and all relatives live here), school ties (it was my undergrad), and opportunities/mission offered by the school that are a close fit with my application, the fact that it's also a top program on top of that (not something I'd outwardly say) might it be more convincing that you're not just lying with no intention to go?

Of course they don't need to care because I know it makes it desirable to the majority of applicants. I'm just wondering because this school openly and explicitly invited us to send them these so I'm not sure how to heart to take it as it's my absolute top choice

The needy schools, or those that like seeing people grovel, lie outside the realm of discussion in this thread. They want the attention, so send the the LOA...it's a given.

 

[DNAJB6]

There are indeed needy schools, like Gtown, Jefferson, Mayo, and U Penn

How needy is UPenn? I'd commit now if they'll take me. 🙂