Question about Medical Genetics....

[ravupadh]

I just got accepted into UMDNJ SOM and was wondering whether a Internal Medicine/Medical Genetics program is within reach for a DO medical student. I know a standalone medical genetics residency is very possible for a DO student, but the Internal Medicine/Medical Genetics combined tracks are only 6 in number and are at very prestigous MD institutions (U of Alabama, Johns Hopkins, Harvard, Mount Sinai, Case Western, and UPenn). I'm not sure about the numbers for these programs (I think Mount Sinai only accepts 1 person for their combined program each year), but would it even be possible for a DO student to get into these programs even with good USMLE scores/grades? I want to try Mount Sinai since it's only 20 minutes away from me by subway but on their website it shows that all of the residents in the program are either MDs or MD/PhDs. I am going to do the DO/PhD program at UMDNJ SOM if that helps.

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[DrMediterranean]

One of the professors at MSUCOM did a fellowship in medical genetics.

http://www.mmg.msu.edu/amalfitano.html

It's possible.

 

[ravupadh]

One of the professors at MSUCOM did a fellowship in medical genetics.

http://www.mmg.msu.edu/amalfitano.html

It's possible.

Hmm yeah I know a regular medical genetics residency is possible but I was actually more specifically interested in the combined IM/Meddical Genetics residencies? Those are more rare in number and are at very prestigous institutions.

 

[GraceEuphoria]

I've been wondering a similar thing, except about combined peds/medical genetics. There's a program at Ohio State and I have ZERO idea how competitive they are, or the specialty in general is...

 

[Brachyury]

I just got accepted into UMDNJ SOM and was wondering whether a Internal Medicine/Medical Genetics program is within reach for a DO medical student. I know a standalone medical genetics residency is very possible for a DO student, but the Internal Medicine/Medical Genetics combined tracks are only 6 in number and are at very prestigous MD institutions (U of Alabama, Johns Hopkins, Harvard, Mount Sinai, Case Western, and UPenn). I'm not sure about the numbers for these programs (I think Mount Sinai only accepts 1 person for their combined program each year), but would it even be possible for a DO student to get into these programs even with good USMLE scores/grades? I want to try Mount Sinai since it's only 20 minutes away from me by subway but on their website it shows that all of the residents in the program are either MDs or MD/PhDs. I am going to do the DO/PhD program at UMDNJ SOM if that helps.

Even as a DO student, you should not have much difficulty landing a medical genetics spot, even at a top program. Why? Since medical genetics pays so poorly, most programs--even at top institutions--are not that competitive. You do not need a Ph.D. to go into medical genetics, but it doesn't hurt. It is also worth mentioning that although you can do IM/med gen, the vast majority of people who enter med gen enter through peds or OB/GYN. Althought there are combined programs, you can always do a fellowship after your residency in peds/Im/OB

In terms of the specialty, about half of our genetics lectures during my first year were by med gen attending at my university's hospital (I'm an MD student), and all of them seemed to love their jobs. The medical geneticists not only work closely with genetics counselors, but they also see and treat patients with certain genetic syndromes (Down's, phenylketonuria, tuberous sclerosis, Gaucher, etc). The best way to find out if you are interested in med gen is to follow an attending. If you are just interested in genetics, molecular pathology is also an excellent option

 

[GraceEuphoria]

Even as a DO student, you should not have much difficulty landing a medical genetics spot, even at a top program. Why? Since medical genetics pays so poorly, most programs--even at top institutions--are not that competitive. You do not need a Ph.D. to go into medical genetics, but it doesn't hurt. It is also worth mentioning that although you can do IM/med gen, the vast majority of people who enter med gen enter through peds or OB/GYN. Althought there are combined programs, you can always do a fellowship after your residency in peds/Im/OB

In terms of the specialty, about half of our genetics lectures during my first year were by med gen attending at my university's hospital (I'm an MD student), and all of them seemed to love their jobs. The medical geneticists not only work closely with genetics counselors, but they also see and treat patients with certain genetic syndromes (Down's, phenylketonuria, tuberous sclerosis, Gaucher, etc). The best way to find out if you are interested in med gen is to follow an attending. If you are just interested in genetics, molecular pathology is also an excellent option

Interesting....I knew the programs were limited, so I figured they would be highly competitive. I read about the "poor pay" and I kind of had to laugh because any physician pay is high in my book really. Any idea as to why their pay is so "low" relative to to other physician pay?

 

[Brachyury]

Interesting....I knew the programs were limited, so I figured they would be highly competitive. I read about the "poor pay" and I kind of had to laugh because any physician pay is high in my book really. Any idea as to why their pay is so "low" relative to to other physician pay?

Here are some numbers. According to Careers in Medicine (AAMC), the mean assistant professors salary is $108,000 (25/75 is $85,000/133,000); associate/professors salaries are a mean of $175,000 (25/75 are 150/210). For peds, assistant professors is 140 (25/75 is 126/166); associate/professor is 175 (25/75 is 148/218). In MGMA—which tends to be the most accurate private practice survey—nationally, medical genetics is $151,000 with 25/75 of $130,000/$178,000. By comparison, general peds is a mean of $211,00 with a 25/75 of 155/251 (NB: MGMA tends to include base salary plus bonuses)

Medical genetics does not pay well because it doesn’t generate money. For example, a cardiologist or a surgeon bills for procedures which makes them and their hospital/practice a lot of money. Medical geneticists do not do procedures, they tend to not see many patients, and when they do, they tend be long visits. At many institutions, medical geneticists are hired because they provide vital services and not because they make money for the hospital. Consequently, most medical geneticists are either in academics or at large referral hospitals.

 

[ravupadh]

Here are some numbers. According to Careers in Medicine (AAMC), the mean assistant professors salary is $108,000 (25/75 is $85,000/133,000); associate/professors salaries are a mean of $175,000 (25/75 are 150/210). For peds, assistant professors is 140 (25/75 is 126/166); associate/professor is 175 (25/75 is 148/218). In MGMA—which tends to be the most accurate private practice survey—nationally, medical genetics is $151,000 with 25/75 of $130,000/$178,000. By comparison, general peds is a mean of $211,00 with a 25/75 of 155/251 (NB: MGMA tends to include base salary plus bonuses)

Medical genetics does not pay well because it doesn’t generate money. For example, a cardiologist or a surgeon bills for procedures which makes them and their hospital/practice a lot of money. Medical geneticists do not do procedures, they tend to not see many patients, and when they do, they tend be long visits. At many institutions, medical geneticists are hired because they provide vital services and not because they make money for the hospital. Consequently, most medical geneticists are either in academics or at large referral hospitals.

Isn't the demand for medical geneticists going to increase in the future however with more need for personalized and preventitive medicine, especially as more information is uncovered about the genome?

 

[Brachyury]

Isn't the demand for medical geneticists going to increase in the future however with more need for personalized and preventitive medicine, especially as more information is uncovered about the genome?

Microarrays are already being done by pathologists (molecular path) and nationally, pathologists are putting a lot of their future bread and butter into molecular path. When a pathologist does a microarray, they issue a report, and it is up to the physician to interpret the report. In most cases, the arrays are ordered and interpreted by a non-medical geneticist. For example, there are currently multiple commercially available microchips for different cancers that are ordered and interpreted by heme/oncs, not medical geneticists. Even if you do order an array, there is no reason why a genetic counselor could not explain the results to a patient. As a medical geneticist, your skills are most valuable for delivering, overseeing, and organizing the care of a patient. If you are looking for a specialty that's going to be at the vanguard of medicine in the 21st century, go into radiology. However, if you are really interested in genetics research, pathology and medical genetics are both viable careers. Also, fyi, I'm an M3, so take my post with a grain of salt

 

[GraceEuphoria]

Sigh....hospital based, no procedures, long visits...and working with kids. Sounds like my perfect fit 🙂 I understand now more so the reason for the lower pay and given my personality, I think that's completely okay with me.

I need to get in and shadow in this field it seems....am I picturing correctly that although these docs often perform some sort of PE on their patients, they still typically practice in more of an office setting like you might see in psych? As opposed to a clinic room setting?

 

[ravupadh]

Microarrays are already being done by pathologists (molecular path) and nationally, pathologists are putting a lot of their future bread and butter into molecular path. When a pathologist does a microarray, they issue a report, and it is up to the physician to interpret the report. In most cases, the arrays are ordered and interpreted by a non-medical geneticist. For example, there are currently multiple commercially available microchips for different cancers that are ordered and interpreted by heme/oncs, not medical geneticists. Even if you do order an array, there is no reason why a genetic counselor could not explain the results to a patient. As a medical geneticist, your skills are most valuable for delivering, overseeing, and organizing the care of a patient. If you are looking for a specialty that's going to be at the vanguard of medicine in the 21st century, go into radiology. However, if you are really interested in genetics research, pathology and medical genetics are both viable careers. Also, fyi, I'm an M3, so take my post with a grain of salt

Are you referring to molecular genetic pathology? Isn't the residency for that subspeciality adminstered jointly by both the pathology and medical genetics boards? I want a career that is mostly laboratory based but has some patient interaction as well. I guess molecular genetic pathology would be right for me? There is also another medical genetics subspeciality called "clinical molecular genetics" but I can't tell the difference between molecular genetic pathology and clinical molecular genetics to be honest.

 

[McGenetics2012]

Hi, i would appreciate to get your opinion regarding my case .

Starting from positive portions , i am finishing my PhD on a Human Genetic field in a Canadian University. I have done some oral/poster presentations and have 2 first author papers. Also have done some workshops in France in the area of Cytogenetics. In addition, my master in Egypt was on Genetic disease using primarily genetic approaches. These facts would indicate that i have a strong attachement to genetics. Anyway. on the other side,. I am a really old MD graduate 1998 and now i am aiming to do my best to get a residency in genetics either in Canada or USA. Also, i will apply for the Canadian Citizenship soon.

I am confident that i could achieve high degrees in any exam i could go through. This is really my best skills.. I know it is not easy but i believe i could do it if i prepare well. However, this will require a long commitment for 1-2 years of my life. That is why i am here trying to get relevant opinions from you regarding my story.

I know some genetics residencies do not require having MD but only requires PhD. The picture, as i see and might be wrong, in Canada is it is a country of contacts. You should have a good network to help you to get wherever you want. I till now do not have such network support.

This is all.. please do not hesitate to share me your opinions/feelings/ advices..They will really help me to get a better picture. Specially from people who knows .Thanks in advance and it is my first day here in this forum..It looks it is a great forum.
Thanks
McGenetics2012

 

[mdgeneticist]

Sigh....hospital based, no procedures, long visits...and working with kids. Sounds like my perfect fit 🙂 I understand now more so the reason for the lower pay and given my personality, I think that's completely okay with me.

I need to get in and shadow in this field it seems....am I picturing correctly that although these docs often perform some sort of PE on their patients, they still typically practice in more of an office setting like you might see in psych? As opposed to a clinic room setting?

I am a board-certified PRIVATE practice medical geneticist. I perform reproductive genetics services, but the bulk of my practice is outpatient pediatric genetics. There is a huge discrepancy between salaries for academics and private practice for genetics. The only problem is that there are not many private practice jobs in the field. My current salary is $210 per year, and I've only been out of fellowship for approximately 5 years. I LOVE my job because it provides me time to think about each patient. I see approximately 5 new patients per day and 5 established patients. I see approximately 3-5 hospital consults per week. It is a wonderful, low-stress lifestyle, should you decide to pursue training in the field. Good luck in you future career endeavors.

 

[GraceEuphoria]

I am a board-certified PRIVATE practice medical geneticist. I perform reproductive genetics services, but the bulk of my practice is outpatient pediatric genetics. There is a huge discrepancy between salaries for academics and private practice for genetics. The only problem is that there are not many private practice jobs in the field. My current salary is $210 per year, and I've only been out of fellowship for approximately 5 years. I LOVE my job because it provides me time to think about each patient. I see approximately 5 new patients per day and 5 established patients. I see approximately 3-5 hospital consults per week. It is a wonderful, low-stress lifestyle, should you decide to pursue training in the field. Good luck in you future career endeavors.

Thanks! This honestly sounds very much like what I'd like to pursue. I always said I'd want hospital work, but I think I could handle this private practice setting, knowing that there are hospital consult opportunities regularly. This might sound like a dumb question, but is your setting for patient visits less of a clinic room setting and more of what you would see a psychiatrist in for example? I suppose in private practice you could do it however you like, but I'm just wondering. I really hate the sterile feel of clinic rooms and while I know there is some physical exam aspect to doing genetics work, I figured maybe the setting was slightly different.

 

[theshellyb]

Thanks! This honestly sounds very much like what I'd like to pursue. I always said I'd want hospital work, but I think I could handle this private practice setting, knowing that there are hospital consult opportunities regularly. This might sound like a dumb question, but is your setting for patient visits less of a clinic room setting and more of what you would see a psychiatrist in for example? I suppose in private practice you could do it however you like, but I'm just wondering. I really hate the sterile feel of clinic rooms and while I know there is some physical exam aspect to doing genetics work, I figured maybe the setting was slightly different.

For what it's worth, I've shadowed several medical geneticists at my institution, and the setting varies. For adults, who are usually being seen for some variation of cancer genetics, they weren't seen in a clinic room, just an office room with a table and chairs and a computer in the corner. Not the sterile "clinic room" feel. For the one patient I saw being evaluated for NF, the extent of the physical exam was looking for Cafe Au Lait spots, which didn't need an exam table. For peds though, there is more of a need for some exam findings- height, examining eyes, ears, all that jazz. Genetic disorders in children can show up in so many areas that the physical exam is crucial to track progress. So the Peds genetic work I shadowed was done in a typical exam room with that "clinic feel"

 

[GraceEuphoria]

For what it's worth, I've shadowed several medical geneticists at my institution, and the setting varies. For adults, who are usually being seen for some variation of cancer genetics, they weren't seen in a clinic room, just an office room with a table and chairs and a computer in the corner. Not the sterile "clinic room" feel. For the one patient I saw being evaluated for NF, the extent of the physical exam was looking for Cafe Au Lait spots, which didn't need an exam table. For peds though, there is more of a need for some exam findings- height, examining eyes, ears, all that jazz. Genetic disorders in children can show up in so many areas that the physical exam is crucial to track progress. So the Peds genetic work I shadowed was done in a typical exam room with that "clinic feel"

Thanks for the feedback! I'm not completely opposed to a good mix of the two settings and honestly, it would never make or break my decision to enter a specialty of course. When I try to envision my future practice, I just have a hard time envisioning clinic rooms day after day lol. Silly point, but I just figured I'd ask. I'd never really thought about adults being seen for cancer genetics....that's interesting. I think I really need to look into this! Anything else you care to share about your experiences in the field? Pros, cons, etc? I'd love to hear anything.

 

[garywo2000]

It's possible.

 

[BambooBanga]

I am a board-certified PRIVATE practice medical geneticist. I perform reproductive genetics services, but the bulk of my practice is outpatient pediatric genetics. There is a huge discrepancy between salaries for academics and private practice for genetics. The only problem is that there are not many private practice jobs in the field. My current salary is $210 per year, and I've only been out of fellowship for approximately 5 years. I LOVE my job because it provides me time to think about each patient. I see approximately 5 new patients per day and 5 established patients. I see approximately 3-5 hospital consults per week. It is a wonderful, low-stress lifestyle, should you decide to pursue training in the field. Good luck in you future career endeavors.

How long does the training take exactly? After med school? I hear it's residency (2-3years) and a fellowship (3-5years). Is it worth training for that long compared to most physicians who just have to do their residency after? I'm still a pre-med and I'm still trying to figure out if all the time is worth it. Especially if it's possible to have while starting a family...

 

[Lawgiver]

so it Medical Genetics its own residency? Is there transitional year required?

 

[Lawgiver]

Sigh....hospital based, no procedures, long visits...and working with kids. Sounds like my perfect fit 🙂 I understand now more so the reason for the lower pay and given my personality, I think that's completely okay with me.

I need to get in and shadow in this field it seems....am I picturing correctly that although these docs often perform some sort of PE on their patients, they still typically practice in more of an office setting like you might see in psych? As opposed to a clinic room setting?

How have things been going for ya. Still going for med gen?