Question about PBL

[sdh516]

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Hi!

I am hoping you guys will be able to help me. I am applying to LECOM-B, where they use PBL. When I first read about this, I liked the sound of it, but now I am starting to have my reservations.

I read on a thread in the pre-allo section about how PBL is not an effective way for students to learn. Does anyone agree with this, or disagree? If this method of learning is not effective, then it could change my decision to go there (if and when I am accepted).

If anyone who knows about PBL could respond, especially if there are any students who are currently in a PBL program or have graduated from a school that uses PBL, I would appreciate it. Thanks in advance for your help! 🙂

sdh

 

[babyruth]

I applied to a allo school that was totally cased based curriculum, where they only had to attend a lecture once a week and just had to meet with their group the rest of the time. I decided that this definately wasn't the choice for me.

However, PBL works really well with some people and thrive with it. If you have never had it before, the theory behind it (generally) is that self-taught learning is more effective in keeping things in long-term memory. Some schools, like UHS, have case based curriculums and they score pretty well in the boards. It is preferentially your choice about what works for you or not-in determining how you learn and how you study. You need to ask yourself, How do I learn best? or What would be beneficial to my learning? Do you like having some background information first? Do you need direction? Are you a visual learner?

Look at the school's stats aa well. Does their curriculum effect their stats? Also, don't they have a triad curriculum (lecture based, PBL, and independent study)?

 

[Dr_sax]

I'm an MSII at LECOM in the PBL program.
2 things to consider when choosing a PBL program vs traditional lecture:

1) Do I require a good deal of direction concerning my education? In other words, do I need to be told what's important, what to study, etc?

2) Do I learn well just by reading or do I need to "hear" the material? Also, how motivated are you in studying on your own or in a group?

PBL is a very cool way of learning preclinical medicine if you fit within the mold I just provided. Otherwise, you'll have trouble learning the material or not like how you're learning it(see point 2) or not be satisfied with how your education develops(see point 1). Most people I know in PBL, myself included, have issues with point 1.
If you have any specific concerns, feel free to PM me.

 

[fdfirefly]

Here's a quick link to info on the origin of PBL. It has a nice little overview (apparently both Harvard & Samford Med Schools use PBL):

http://www.samford.edu/pbl/history.html

And just a quick note in regards to PBL at LECOM...PBL students do much, much better on their boards than the traditional lecture/discussion students. From looking at the test scores, I can't blame them for setting up their new campus in FL as entirely PBL.

Hope this helps.

 

[docbill]

I knew it was a matter of time that someone droped the H-Bomb.. Harvard... well the program was developed at McMaster Univeristy in Ontario. And this was later picked up by other schools.

It is a good program.. for the right people.
It is a terible program for the wrong people.

Sorry to say but the big Ivy league schools' students and their learning habits/background are slightly different from DO schools - LECOM. I hear complains from Physicians about PBL... then again the argument depends on the student.

This is now being edited... I did not word my post properly. There is no assumption that DO students are not good or worthy of PBL... After all I am going to be one of them. The bold typing is what is needed to be emphasized.

The opions of physicians who disagree with PBL.. is there opinion. Once I am finished my degree and have experience evaluating others who have done or have not done PBL.. I will come back and post my opion. 👍

 

[fdfirefly]

H-Bomb? Ummm...ok. Actually if you would have taken a look at the link I put in the post, the first line says that the program was developed at McMaster Univ in Ontario. I never said anything about Harvard developing PBL, just that they use it for their med school. It was pretty obvious where PBL started from for anyone who took a look at the link. And the reason for mentioning Harvard was to let sdh516 know that it is highly regarded, even in MD schools, and not just some unproven program that someone just made up.

And while PBL is a different way of learning which can be a difficult adjustment (see Dr Sax's comments), I would think that the challenge would be worth it, for any type of student. Test scores at LECOM prove that the majority of PBL students do better on their boards than the lecture based students. I would take this to heart and trust the numbers. Numbers can't lie or be emotional.

DocBill, in looking at your comments, it seems that you are trying to say that DO students can't do PBL well because DO students can't handle it. That comment is both obsurd and ignorant. All the proof you need is in the test scores. PBL students far outscore their traditional student counterparts. If it was true that PBL only works at Harvard because their students are better than PBL students at LECOM would be on the bottom rung of board test scores. They are not.

And I don't know what "Physicians" you may be speaking of but I find it hard to believe that any physician would complain about a resident because they were PBL students. One has nothing to do with the other. A lecture based student could get extremely high board grades and still not be able to function during a residency. In fact, PBL students probably have an advantage in that their program aids in improving colleague interaction in group settings.

 

[Ypo.]

Please don't call me ignorant... I assure you are overeacting and passing quick judgment. Don't do that.. it doesn't make for good friends nor future co-workers.. :

Firefly said that your comments, as he interpreted them, were ignorant, not that 'you' were ignorant.

Not to take sides here, but your post was hard to interpret and could have been taken in various ways. It did seem that you "assumed" he was saying Harvard initiated PBL...although he clearly did not say that in his post.

I also think you need to take a closer look at who might be overreacting. 😳

 

[docbill]

I knew it was a matter of time that someone droped the H-Bomb.. Harvard... well the program was developed at McMaster Univeristy in Ontario. And this was later picked up by other schools.

It is a good program.. for the right people.
It is a terible program for the wrong people.

Sorry to say but the big Ivy league schools' students and their learning habits/background are slightly different from DO schools - LECOM. I hear complains from Physicians about PBL... then again the argument depends on the student.

This is now being edited... I did not word my post properly. There is no assumption that DO students are not good or worthy of PBL... After all I am going to be one of them. The bold typing is what is needed to be emphasized.

The opions of physicians who disagree with PBL.. is there opinion. Once I am finished my degree and have experience evaluating others who have done or have not done PBL.. I will come back and post my opion. 👍

 

[DocCarpenter]

And while PBL is a different way of learning which can be a difficult adjustment (see Dr Sax's comments), I would think that the challenge would be worth it, for any type of student. Test scores at LECOM prove that the majority of PBL students do better on their boards than the lecture based students. I would take this to heart and trust the numbers. Numbers can't lie or be emotional.

You reference the board scores at given school...

Where can you go to see the stats for different schools for their board exams vs. the national averages? I have been trying to find this, but have been unsuccessful.

I agree that it would be the best objective way to see if a given school's implementation of PBL is effective or not.

 

[nicko18]

PBL is excellent if you have a facilitator/tutor who knows their stuff - and can help out with medical questions that arise.

However at my uni, tutors are not supposed to necessarily have any knowledge in medicine, they are merely facilitators to keep the group in the right direction. - this is a very poor and inefficient way to learn IMO.

Luckily most of my tutors so far happened to have quite a grounding in med, and it's been quite useful - otherwise your spending 1.5 hours sitting with a group of 9 students looking up textbooks - which can be just as efficient as staying at home

 

[mamitch4]

I am in the PLB program at WVSOM and absolutely love it. Our facilitators are very knowledgable (one is a physiologist and we are studying acid-base balance now). However we actually learn more when they keep their mouths shut, because we have to process and evaluate the information that we find ourselves.
Also, PBL is about much more than learning material independently out of a book. Our class time is spent sharing, expanding, and challenging our knowledge. You would be amazed at how eight people can all study the same subject for two days and come up with different (sometimes conflicting) information and different understandings. Much more of our total learning time is spent critically thinking than memorizing.
While at first this process was very frustrating (it can be time consumming finding information when you are used to people giving it to you and scary learning a new way to learn), it has turned into the most satisfying, productive, and fun learning experience I have ever had.
I recommend it to anyone who is not afraid to think.

 

[mshheaddoc]

Here's a quick link to info on the origin of PBL. It has a nice little overview (apparently both Harvard & Samford Med Schools use PBL):

http://www.samford.edu/pbl/history.html

And just a quick note in regards to PBL at LECOM...PBL students do much, much better on their boards than the traditional lecture/discussion students. From looking at the test scores, I can't blame them for setting up their new campus in FL as entirely PBL.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the link! 👍