Question about pre-vet experience

[brightness]

I saw in a thread on this site that someone had 3,000 hours of experience prior to veterinary school. This seems to be quite excessive in terms of requirement- not that its a bad thing to have a lot of experience, but it is unlikely I'll have quite that much. More like, maybe 2,000 hours tops. I work at an animal hospital as a receptionist 33 hours a week- and believe it or not, I still get a lot of veterinary experience! 😛 I am also considering volunteering at a local zoo- which has wildlife and farm animals. Is this 'diverse' enough experience or should I try to do something else? I am also considering doing an internship in wildlife conservation on Beaver Island, Mi.
Just looking for some advice! The 3,000 hours thing really frightened me a little.

 

[youthman]

I think you should do the zoo thing, and also try to add other types of experience. This is more important than the 3,000 hours. If the minimum is say 500 hrs and you can fit a wide range of experience in that 500 hrs than it could count for more than someone that worked a full time job at 1 vet clinic. Of course I have yet to apply anywhere, but all vet school advisors I've talked to have explained it to me that way. They want to know you are making an informed decision, not how good of a tech or pooper scooper you are.

 

[kate_g]

It's also quite possible that the 3,000 hours was exaggerated to some extent. I asked about this in a thread a while ago when I was wondering how to classify my time. Like, you work 33 hours/week as a receptionist at a vet clinic. Well, that's 1650 hours in just one year (at 50 weeks/year). Who's to say how much of that time was actually "veterinary" vs. "office work"? If you just reported the whole thing as veterinary it would look like you had a lot more hours. I'm guessing a lot of people do just that. Likewise, a lot of people do research. Now, the actual *veterinary* tasks in my research take up maybe 10% of my time. But all told (8hrs*7days*50weeks*7years - I agree this is way more than your typical undergrad research project, but still) I could make it look like I have almost *20,000* hours of "veterinary experience" - after all, the VMCAS application says to list research under the veterinary experience heading. Clearly that's total bunk. Almost nobody who has a job as a researcher or even a tech in a vet hospital actually does veterinary work 100% of the time, I'm sure. Especially since VMCAS also separates out "animal experience", by which they mean animal handling, training, cleaning, etc., basically anything that doesn't involve an actual medical procedure.

Anyway, all that was to say: don't be discouraged. Sure, there are people who report 3,000 hours. Maybe they have that many, and maybe they're stretching. If they report 3,000 hours and then can't manage to talk with confidence about more than one or two procedures they were involved in, I imagine they're going to fare worse than someone with 500 hours who can describe a dozen varied experiences...

 

[bubbles525]

Not trying to be a pain in the butt however I'd like to point out a few things. Receptionist duties in a small clinic with few employees is often actual "veterinary" work. At the practice where I work the receptionist also fills prescriptions and is often asked to jump in to give an extra hand. When appointments are slow or it's time for surgery they often run lab work too. Further the paperwork and day to day management of a clinic IS very important experience in my opinion. Writing files, figuring out employee schedules, handling clients (be they pleasant or unpleasant) all have mush more to do with being a vet then reading a fecal or spinning a tube of blood, or even handing the vet the right suture material. Vet school is going to teach us to pick the right suture material, read fecals, and why we run certain types of blood work. I think that interpersonal skills and understanding the business of veterinary medicine is especially important for those of us seeking entrance. They want us to make an informed decision right? Veterinary medicine is much much more than medical procedures. If that’s was all medicine was I'd probably risk AIDS and other human diseases and try for med school (it's easier to get into besides 😛 )
I personally have found myself in a position with many many hours in one clinic and few hours elsewhere. A one doctor small animal (and no exotics) practice. When I had my reapplicant interviews this year Tufts told me that I had more than enough experience and diversifying would not help my chances. Western told me (I'm an alternate there and it's my first choice) that getting more diverse experiences was all I COULD do to better my chances as I fit their needs and exceed them in all other areas. It really depends on the school itself and the other factors in your application. I find myself in an uncomfortable position now that I have graduate and need health insurance. Before I needed the money from a steady job and now I need the money and insurance benefits. My extra time was and is taken up by caring for my terminally ill mom and younger siblings. You can still make it work if you are stuck where I was/am and cannot get other many other experiences. But even after saying all of that I encourage anyone with the time to do one day a week volunteer around everything else when they can so you can list multiple experiences.

Like, you work 33 hours/week as a receptionist at a vet clinic. Well, that's 1650 hours in just one year (at 50 weeks/year). Who's to say how much of that time was actually "veterinary" vs. "office work"? If you just reported the whole thing as veterinary it would look like you had a lot more hours... Now, the actual *veterinary* tasks in my research take up maybe 10% of my time. But all told (8hrs*7days*50weeks*7years ... Clearly that's total bunk. Almost nobody who has a job as a researcher or even a tech in a vet hospital actually does veterinary work 100% of the time, I'm sure. Especially since VMCAS also separates out "animal experience", by which they mean animal handling, training, cleaning, etc., basically anything that doesn't involve an actual medical procedure.

 

[brightness]

Thank you for your input!! I really didn't mention that my clinic is a rural veterinary clinic and we all do some veterinary assisting at one point or another, plus running fecals and filling perscriptions. We don't take blood or administer shots or anything, but the receptionists do assist with these procedures.
I hear what you're saying about having more diverse experience, however. I do need to have more than just small animal experience; I am really afraid of horses but there is a surplus of stables in my area. There are also some small zoos with nice volunteer opportunities as well, so I'm going to be looking into some of those things.

 

[Anggel]

I saw in a thread on this site that someone had 3,000 hours of experience prior to veterinary school. This seems to be quite excessive in terms of requirement- not that its a bad thing to have a lot of experience, but it is unlikely I'll have quite that much. More like, maybe 2,000 hours tops. I work at an animal hospital as a receptionist 33 hours a week- and believe it or not, I still get a lot of veterinary experience! 😛 I am also considering volunteering at a local zoo- which has wildlife and farm animals. Is this 'diverse' enough experience or should I try to do something else? I am also considering doing an internship in wildlife conservation on Beaver Island, Mi.
Just looking for some advice! The 3,000 hours thing really frightened me a little.

I am guessing you are referring to my post in another thread. I worked in several veterinary facilities during my four years of undergrad in addition to volunteering at a few. I attained about 800 hours a year for four years. If you do the math that is approximately 3000 hours. That was merely my experience and by no imagination was I "stretching" the truth.

For clarification purposes, I didn't mean to imply one could not get accepted with less than several thousand hours of experience. It's just been my experience that many of my classmates and friends at other schools have a similar number of hours at the time of application.

 

[kate_g]

I am guessing you are referring to my post in another thread. ... That was merely my experience and by no imagination was I "stretching" the truth.

The OP might have been referring to your post, but to clarify, I wasn't accusing you in particular of fudging numbers. 🙂 My point was simply that this part of the application is pretty much wide open, you don't even provide contact info in order for them to verify your claims. So I'm guessing everyone has a tendency to round up. And also, they seem to want each job/activity to be listed in one category only. So say you work at a clinic where you answer phones but also fill prescriptions and walk the dogs staying in the hospital. Is that "employment", "veterinary", or "animal" experience? All three, really. The OP sounded like they were not going to list the receptionist job as "veterinary experience" and I think that most people probably *would*. The fact that you have to choose one or the other is a limitation of the system. Whether you think it's stretching the truth... Well, probably most people with the same job are listing it as veterinary, and maybe that's the important thing.

 

[Quaggi]

I think veterinary reception work would definitely be classified under "veterinary" on VMCAS. Maybe you arent giving injections, restraining etc, but you are gaining a ton of knowledge and experience in the field. vet schools are more interested in an applicant understanding what theyre getting themselves into than already possessing the technical skills that they will eventually learn once enrolled. receptionists not only deal with veterinarians but they deal with the clients, and learning to deal with them is probably more important than anything else you will learn before school if you're interested in clinical medicine. also, i dont think 3000+ hours is unreasonable, i had more than that and I wasn't exaggerating, but it doesnt mean you need that many.


Bari
Tufts V'10

 

[peppermintgal]

Just wanted to add in my 2 cents before all potential applicants get freaked out by the hours that are being mentioned.

I applied with very few veterinary hours.. About 10% of the 3000 hours that most people have and I still got into 1 vet school out of the 3 that I applied.

Attending vet school was a decision that I made only after I graduated so I didn't accumulate many hours from undergrad.

I am a mature student and I am not sure if that made any difference. I also did justify in my personal statement on the lack of hours.

Just wanted to encourage people to just give it a shot even though you do not have many hours..you might be surprised by the outcome

 

[MissBehavior]

"...you are gaining a ton of knowledge and experience in the field. vet schools are more interested in an applicant understanding what theyre getting themselves into than already possessing the technical skills..."

Bari
Tufts V'10

Quaggi, I agree with this completely. One part of my vet experience was working fulltime for a SA vet for six months, so that's about 960 hours. I did not work hands-on with the animals 100% of the time, but neither did the vet!! One of the reasons for gaining animal/veterinary experience prior to vet school is to see the wide variety of work that vets do, much of which may not be hands on. This is also why vets should have good people skills too! (lol)

 

[UKYWildcat]

I think it really works both ways - yes, you need good people skills so being a receptionist is fine or shadowing is fine...but if you don't get your hands into the medicine then how do you know you're truly comfortable with it? Having taught vet students for 2 years before becoming one myself I've seen students that had very little clinical background completely freeze up when it came to very simple procedures because they had no idea what it would be like to be "in the drivers seat" Many even comment "It's so different when you watch someone else do it." I'm not talking anything terribly involved here, either - maybe a CSF tap, a TTW, paravertebral block - that sort of thing.
There's also the issue that vet school often only gives you the opportunity to perform some tasks once or twice before you graduate so as much true hands on experience before and during school (like RAVS trips or externships) is quite valuable.

 

[youthman]

But isn't that a problem with the vet school system then? If vet students can't get the clinical experience they need while in school, how fair is it to expect pre-vet students to get clinical experience before they even get into school? If you are already a tech, or have been working at a clinic since freshman year that's one thing, but let's say you didn't realize you wanted to be a vet until your junior year? It would be extremely difficult to get in there amongst CVT's and such to get your hands into the medicine (besides giving vacc. shots or fluids). You don't see pre-med students going out and getting hands on experience with treating human patients because they get their clinical experience AFTER med school. Since vets don't have to do internships or residencies, the responsibility of providing clinical experience really should fall on vet schools and employers after vet school.

 

[PerfectBrak]

I am guessing you are referring to my post in another thread. I worked in several veterinary facilities during my four years of undergrad in addition to volunteering at a few. I attained about 800 hours a year for four years. If you do the math that is approximately 3000 hours. That was merely my experience and by no imagination was I "stretching" the truth.

For clarification purposes, I didn't mean to imply one could not get accepted with less than several thousand hours of experience. It's just been my experience that many of my classmates and friends at other schools have a similar number of hours at the time of application.

I agree with Anggel, its not that you need so many hours, but many veterinary applicants do. In my case, I've racked up 4000+ hours of experence in a small animal clinic as I've been working there for six years. It wasn't just to accumulate experience to look like a better candidate, but also my main source of income throughout college.

I also worked at a local zoo on weekends over four semesters, and worked as a research assistant working with lab rats for one year. No "stretching" required, I happen to have a lot of hours. Don't fret if you have less, but I would advise you to try your hand at a different veterinary experience.

 

[UKYWildcat]

But isn't that a problem with the vet school system then? If vet students can't get the clinical experience they need while in school, how fair is it to expect pre-vet students to get clinical experience before they even get into school? If you are already a tech, or have been working at a clinic since freshman year that's one thing, but let's say you didn't realize you wanted to be a vet until your junior year? It would be extremely difficult to get in there amongst CVT's and such to get your hands into the medicine (besides giving vacc. shots or fluids). You don't see pre-med students going out and getting hands on experience with treating human patients because they get their clinical experience AFTER med school. Since vets don't have to do internships or residencies, the responsibility of providing clinical experience really should fall on vet schools and employers after vet school.

I never said it was a good system or that it was right, I'm simply telling you how it is. 🙂

 

[HorseyVet]

But isn't that a problem with the vet school system then? If vet students can't get the clinical experience they need while in school, how fair is it to expect pre-vet students to get clinical experience before they even get into school? ....Since vets don't have to do internships or residencies, the responsibility of providing clinical experience really should fall on vet schools and employers after vet school.

This is one of arguments for tracking which I'm sort of in agreement with, but there are obviously other problems that come with tracking.

The problem that happens with putting the responsiblity of training on the clinic that gets a new grad is that often they train you (and waste money on you b/c you're really not that productive)...and then you leave and go somewhere else after you're worth something. New grads have to try to weight working somewhere they really want to stay at verse the place that pays the best. This is also part of the reason why a lot of new grads are treated like crap at their first clinic. Basically over the last 10 years or so the amount of info you got in vet school has become more disproportionate to your tuition debt and the amount of money you can generate after school.

Animal rights concerns have played a role in this at some level where more schools simply do a lot less hands-on then they used to. Most of the vets I've shadowed did a fair number of surgeries in school, inculding non-recoveries for teaching purposes. I could be wrong but I don't think anyone has non-recoveries as a part of their program anymore. There are ways today to get more experience out of school but I think you do need to be pretty proactive about your education.

 

[keppsu1]

Most of the vets I've shadowed did a fair number of surgeries in school, inculding non-recoveries for teaching purposes. I could be wrong but I don't think anyone has non-recoveries as a part of their program anymore. There are ways today to get more experience out of school but I think you do need to be pretty proactive about your education.

Univ of GA and Mich St. are just two that I know of that teach non-recovery surgery. I'm sure there are more. Personally, I feel that we need to have this kind of surgery in order to fully understand the impact of our profession.

 

[brightness]

Thanks for all of your replies! This thread has answered my question and more. I am really interested in learning about veterinary school curriculum now, too. 🙂

 

[kate_g]

Davis seems awfully proud of not using terminal procedures in their SA curriculum - they say it was the students that demanded it! IMO it's actually one of the least attractive things about their program. Administration people say they've replaced the terminal procedures with alternative exercises (models, corpses) that are equally effective. I just dunno if I buy that. I'm not sure you can even take any electives within the SA track that have terminal procedures. But even they have a LA surgery lab that's got a couple - the animals were going to be killed for something else anyway, blah blah... Still, the point was that however politically correct you strive to be, there are some things you just can't learn without doing them...

Oh, and add Auburn, I believe, and Iowa State to the list of places that require terminal procedures as part of the regular curriculum.

 

[Quaggi]

Davis seems awfully proud of not using terminal procedures in their SA curriculum - they say it was the students that demanded it! IMO it's actually one of the least attractive things about their program. Administration people say they've replaced the terminal procedures with alternative exercises (models, corpses) that are equally effective. I just dunno if I buy that. I'm not sure you can even take any electives within the SA track that have terminal procedures. But even they have a LA surgery lab that's got a couple - the animals were going to be killed for something else anyway, blah blah... Still, the point was that however politically correct you strive to be, there are some things you just can't learn without doing them... QUOTE]

I totally disagree...when i was applying to tufts, i was so excited that they have altered their program to not do terminal surgeries, and they even get dogs for anatomy lab donated from the hospital (owners get the option to donate euthanized pets). I dont think in the slightest that tufts grads come out of school lacking any surgical skills, instead of doing terminal surgeries (aka, it doesnt matter if i mess up because its dying anyway) we get to do spays and neuters on shelter animals. so while learning surgical technique, we are also helping out these shelters in desperate need of spaying and neutering their animals. im pretty sure that ortho surgeries are done on cadavers, which is probably pretty close to the real thing. you cant expect to graduate from vet school an accomplished surgeon, it takes years of post grad training. all you can hope for is to be comfortable with the basics so that you can learn the rest in time.

Bari
Tufts V10