Question about SMPs

[kelminak]

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Hi friends,

If you remember my previous thread, I was one of the people that was shafted the hardest by AACOMAS changes. So now I have to complete an SMP and there's only a few of them that have direct admission options while a majority of them say that you'll get an interview. So I'm at a 2.4 with the new changes but have had one C in the last 2 years of classes. My concern is that I would get into one of these non-guaranteed admission programs, complete it, then be rejected because my GPA is still considered low because no amount of classes would ever fix it.

Is this a reasonable fear? Or when you get an interview, is that basically a formality for getting in if you performed well? (maybe not "formality", but assuming you don't biff it, you'll get into the next class) I just don't like the idea of wasting a year and 50k on a program that wouldn't let me into their next class even if I did well due to my GPA issues from the past that can't be changed now.

Thanks for your help!

 

[sjcha]

Hi friends,

If you remember my previous thread, I was one of the people that was shafted the hardest by AACOMAS changes. So now I have to complete an SMP and there's only a few of them that have direct admission options while a majority of them say that you'll get an interview. So I'm at a 2.4 with the new changes but have had one C in the last 2 years of classes. My concern is that I would get into one of these non-guaranteed admission programs, complete it, then be rejected because my GPA is still considered low because no amount of classes would ever fix it.

Is this a reasonable fear? Or when you get an interview, is that basically a formality for getting in if you performed well? (maybe not "formality", but assuming you don't biff it, you'll get into the next class) I just don't like the idea of wasting a year and 50k on a program that wouldn't let me into their next class even if I did well due to my GPA issues from the past that can't be changed now.

Thanks for your help!

I'm really sorry about the sudden change.. The timing was despicable and definitely not transparent.

From what I have heard, every applicant is on an "even level" playing field once you are invited for an interview. At this point, they have already considered your stats, ECs, LORs, etc. Now they just want to see if you're a good fit for their school.

Hope that helps a little!

 

[roaringunicorn]

Hi friends,

If you remember my previous thread, I was one of the people that was shafted the hardest by AACOMAS changes. So now I have to complete an SMP and there's only a few of them that have direct admission options while a majority of them say that you'll get an interview. So I'm at a 2.4 with the new changes but have had one C in the last 2 years of classes. My concern is that I would get into one of these non-guaranteed admission programs, complete it, then be rejected because my GPA is still considered low because no amount of classes would ever fix it.

Is this a reasonable fear? Or when you get an interview, is that basically a formality for getting in if you performed well? (maybe not "formality", but assuming you don't biff it, you'll get into the next class) I just don't like the idea of wasting a year and 50k on a program that wouldn't let me into their next class even if I did well due to my GPA issues from the past that can't be changed now.

Thanks for your help!

If you truly ace the SMP your undergrad GPA wont matter.

 

[Peach Newport]

If you truly ace the SMP your undergrad GPA wont matter.

This is true. To an extent. Some schools, but not all, will still screen somewhat. However, this is usually not a hard and fast rule.

Medical schools, especially DO schools, take your graduate GPA seriously.

If you get a 3.7-3.8+ in a masters, your undergraduate GPA doesn't have to be anything more than a 10-second answer in an interview.

I don't think you should limit yourself to SMPs. Look into Masters of Biomedical science.

Also, be wary of schools that offer guaranteed admission. Do not choose an Masters for this reason. They do give guaranteed admission, but only to maybe the top 25% or so. Never assume you will be in this group; these programs are viciously competitive. Also, such an SMP may hurt your chances at other schools, because it's so hard to perform well in them.

I'm a slightly above average OMS1 and I don't even know if I could have managed to be in the top 25% of an SMP like that.

 

[Shotapp]

@Peach Newport

Did you do a masters that was linked to a medical school or was it a traditional science heavy masters at a university?

 

[Peach Newport]

@Peach Newport

Did you do a masters that was linked to a medical school or was it a traditional science heavy masters at a university?

It was an MBS as a well-known university. It wasn't associated with the medical school, though their professors did come and do guest lectures sometimes.

 

[kelminak]

This is true. To an extent. Some schools, but not all, will still screen somewhat. However, this is usually not a hard and fast rule.

Medical schools, especially DO schools, take your graduate GPA seriously.

If you get a 3.7-3.8+ in a masters, your undergraduate GPA doesn't have to be anything more than a 10-second answer in an interview.

I don't think you should limit yourself to SMPs. Look into Masters of Biomedical science.

Also, be wary of schools that offer guaranteed admission. Do not choose an Masters for this reason. They do give guaranteed admission, but only to maybe the top 25% or so. Never assume you will be in this group; these programs are viciously competitive. Also, such an SMP may hurt your chances at other schools, because it's so hard to perform well in them.

I'm a slightly above average OMS1 and I don't even know if I could have managed to be in the top 25% of an SMP like that.

Thank you so much for the input. So you think I shouldn't be concerned with the actual admission if I were to do well in the SMP (if I'm going to do an SMP, bet your ass I'll be in that top percentage)? I'm also very carefully watching the wording of the programs. VCOM for instance says if you get a 3.6 it's an auto-admit and the reviews on SDN were good, but BCOM had some poor reviews that made it kinda scary (apparently the were adjusting grades on the fly and actually wanted people to get in, so that's a good sign I guess). I guess I just had this fear that even if I did well, I'd get to the interview and they'd tell me my GPA was too ****ty for them to let me in. =/

 

[Alienman52]

Hi friends,

If you remember my previous thread, I was one of the people that was shafted the hardest by AACOMAS changes. So now I have to complete an SMP and there's only a few of them that have direct admission options while a majority of them say that you'll get an interview. So I'm at a 2.4 with the new changes but have had one C in the last 2 years of classes. My concern is that I would get into one of these non-guaranteed admission programs, complete it, then be rejected because my GPA is still considered low because no amount of classes would ever fix it.

Is this a reasonable fear? Or when you get an interview, is that basically a formality for getting in if you performed well? (maybe not "formality", but assuming you don't biff it, you'll get into the next class) I just don't like the idea of wasting a year and 50k on a program that wouldn't let me into their next class even if I did well due to my GPA issues from the past that can't be changed now.

Thanks for your help!

It's not an unjustified fear, but if you can manage a 3.65+ in your SMP I don't see why adcom's wouldn't be able to tell that you're fully capable of handling a medical school curriculum. (Coupled with a decent MCAT.)

 

[WorldChanger36]

SMPs do not give you a complete over ride of your past GPA. They give you a chance to show you can handle medical school despite past failures. This has an effect that can not be predicted but does give you a chance at getting in.
OP, if I were you I would expect multiple app cycles and a ton of money on increased chance of getting in.
To best increase your chances you need a super strong MCAT score, apply broadly to multiple med schools MD and DO because you have no idea which school will give you a chance and be ready to complete multiple SMPs. First start with a med school feeder program and hope it gets you in then move on to a broader well known program. It can be done.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Jim Hopper]

I know a guy that graduated summa cum laude from his undergrad (>3.8) but has poor ECs and scored sub-20 on the MCAT twice. He's taking an SMP now because of a "guaranteed" interview at the end, and says he's in the top 25% of his class. If the school's average MCAT is 30, does this person have a chance of admittance?

 

[Peach Newport]

I know a guy that graduated summa cum laude from his undergrad (>3.8) but has poor ECs and scored sub-20 on the MCAT twice. He's taking an SMP now because of a "guaranteed" interview at the end, and says he's in the top 25% of his class. If the school's average MCAT is 30, does this person have a chance of admittance?

"guaranteed interview" means just that - a guaranteed INTERVIEW.

And let's not beat around the bush - sub-20 is a terrible, terrible score. You could single-handedly save a country from Ebola and still not get into medical school with that score, and that's only half an exaggeration.

If the school wants a 30 mcat, the school wants a 30 mcat. A guaranteed interview won't make up for a sub-20 mcat. An SMP with guaranteed acceptance would let a guy like that in after good performance, but not a school with guaranteed interview- which means nothing.

Your friend needs to suck it up and take an mcat prep course. He needs to take this test seriously. He cannot weasel his way out of the mcat. If he thinks that excellent performance in a "guaranteed interview" SMP will get him admitted without a decent mcat score, he's in for a nasty surprise.

The following is the best peice of advice for medical school admissions you will ever get.

Medical schools do not need to take people who compensate for weaknesses in their application. They can get applicants who have it all.

 

[Goro]

The solution to this conundrum will be to have a well crafted school list once you finish acing your SMP.

Your state MD school and any DO school should be on the list (except LUCOM, Wm Carey and Touro-NY, for different reasons).

Hi friends,

If you remember my previous thread, I was one of the people that was shafted the hardest by AACOMAS changes. So now I have to complete an SMP and there's only a few of them that have direct admission options while a majority of them say that you'll get an interview. So I'm at a 2.4 with the new changes but have had one C in the last 2 years of classes. My concern is that I would get into one of these non-guaranteed admission programs, complete it, then be rejected because my GPA is still considered low because no amount of classes would ever fix it.

Is this a reasonable fear? Or when you get an interview, is that basically a formality for getting in if you performed well? (maybe not "formality", but assuming you don't biff it, you'll get into the next class) I just don't like the idea of wasting a year and 50k on a program that wouldn't let me into their next class even if I did well due to my GPA issues from the past that can't be changed now.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Marrowist]

What state are you in OP?

 

[kelminak]

What state are you in OP?

Idaho. No MD school. A DO school was opening here this cycle (ICOM, from the group that made BCOM) and I was gonna apply here this summer before the changes. :/

 

[kelminak]

The solution to this conundrum will be to have a well crafted school list once you finish acing your SMP.

Your state MD school and any DO school should be on the list (except LUCOM, Wm Carey and Touro-NY, for different reasons).

So I had planned on using my old MCAT to apply this cycle before the AACOMAS changes (7/12/9 = 28). Should I basically plan on retaking this now if I can't get into a program with automatic admission into the next class? I could plan to study for it this summer, but I had really hoped to not have to take it again when I did fine the first time.

 

[WorldChanger36]

The solution to this conundrum will be to have a well crafted school list once you finish acing your SMP.

Your state MD school and any DO school should be on the list (except LUCOM, Wm Carey and Touro-NY, for different reasons).

... hey now beggers cant be choosers and each of these schools issue the DO degree.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Goro]

Only if the exam score expires.

So I had planned on using my old MCAT to apply this cycle before the AACOMAS changes (7/12/9 = 28). Should I basically plan on retaking this now if I can't get into a program with automatic admission into the next class? I could plan to study for it this summer, but I had really hoped to not have to take it again when I did fine the first time.

 

[kelminak]

... hey now beggers cant be choosers and each of these schools issue the DO degree.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Obviously if someone could only get an acceptance at one of these places they should take it, but they should be avoided if possible.

 

[Wjldenver]

Hi friends,

If you remember my previous thread, I was one of the people that was shafted the hardest by AACOMAS changes. So now I have to complete an SMP and there's only a few of them that have direct admission options while a majority of them say that you'll get an interview. So I'm at a 2.4 with the new changes but have had one C in the last 2 years of classes. My concern is that I would get into one of these non-guaranteed admission programs, complete it, then be rejected because my GPA is still considered low because no amount of classes would ever fix it.

Is this a reasonable fear? Or when you get an interview, is that basically a formality for getting in if you performed well? (maybe not "formality", but assuming you don't biff it, you'll get into the next class) I just don't like the idea of wasting a year and 50k on a program that wouldn't let me into their next class even if I did well due to my GPA issues from the past that can't be changed now.

Thanks for your help!

I definitely admire your tenacity Kelminak. If it was me, I would enroll in an SMP with linkage. Yeah, I hear they can be brutally competitive, but you have one guaranteed shot at an acceptance. ...And if your GPA doesn't cut it for that automatic acceptance, you can apply to any and all DO schools there after. Cast a wide net... I'm not overly religious, but if I really wanted to get a DO degree, and LUCOM was my only acceptance, I would be headed for Virginia.

 

[kelminak]

I definitely admire your tenacity Kelminak. If it was me, I would enroll in an SMP with linkage. Yeah, I hear they can be brutally competitive, but you have one guaranteed shot at an acceptance. ...And if your GPA doesn't cut it for that automatic acceptance, you can apply to any and all DO schools there after. Cast a wide net... I'm not overly religious, but if I really wanted to get a DO degree, and LUCOM was my only acceptance, I would be headed for Virginia.

Thanks, I'll definitely apply for the ones with linkage and see what happens. If I were to get into one, I would literally do nothing else but study to make sure I got automatically accepted for the next class. Hopefully someone will take me in. 🙂

 

[impervious0ne]

The solution to this conundrum will be to have a well crafted school list once you finish acing your SMP.

Your state MD school and any DO school should be on the list (except LUCOM, Wm Carey and Touro-NY, for different reasons).

Hey @Goro,


Whats wrong with WM Carey and Touro-NY (both campuses I presume?)

I understand LUCOM's ties with evangelism might give people pauses, but what's the deal with the other 2?

Also, how much does a DO SMP carry over to the non-parent DO schools?

 

[Goro]

Wm Carey: poor COMLEX I pass rates

Touro NY: unethical and incompetent response to overfilling the 2016 entering Class; poor COMLEX II pass rates.

EDIT: I can't speak for other programs, but students from our SMP have gotten into MD schools, and other DO schools.

Hey @Goro,


Whats wrong with WM Carey and Touro-NY (both campuses I presume?)

I understand LUCOM's ties with evangelism might give people pauses, but what's the deal with the other 2?

Also, how much does a DO SMP carry over to the non-parent DO schools?

 

[impervious0ne]

Hey @Goro

Should Touro SMP's be avoided if that is the case? If I recall correctly, Touro was in the news for shady practices in law as well.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I hate to say this to you, but if you even want the slightest chance of ever becoming a doctor, you'll take a seat at the best SMP you can possibly get. They won't accept you into the SMP class with the intention of not accepting you, but could it happen in one without linkage? Sure, but this is your reality.

 

[kelminak]

They won't accept you into the SMP class with the intention of not accepting you, but could it happen in one without linkage? Sure, but this is your reality.

This is kind of what I want to hear. It basically sounds like if I get into an SMP, they are testing me for their school and wouldn't accept me if they weren't interested in me. I can prove that I belong as long as they're not just offering the seat for my money.

 

[Dr. Rafiki]

The solution to this conundrum will be to have a well crafted school list once you finish acing your SMP.

Your state MD school and any DO school should be on the list (except LUCOM, Wm Carey and Touro-NY, for different reasons).

Hey @Goro is LUCOMs ties to evangelism your only issue with the school? I see you throw a lot of shade their way on SDN, so just wondering if there is any more reason for this. I understand the conversion therapy thing that happened once for inaugural class and never again, anything else?

LUCOM is my only interview thus far, so I ask in the most serious of ways. Thanks.

Sent from my LGLS676 using SDN mobile

 

[mfrey28]

@kelminak

What SMP's are you applying to? I was accepted to both Midwestern MABS programs and Heritage University MAMS program. Best of luck to you.

 

[kelminak]

Hey @Goro is LUCOMs ties to evangelism your only issue with the school? I see you throw a lot of shade their way on SDN, so just wondering if there is any more reason for this. I understand the conversion therapy thing that happened once for inaugural class and never again, anything else?

LUCOM is my only interview thus far, so I ask in the most serious of ways. Thanks.

Sent from my LGLS676 using SDN mobile

That on top of the fact that they had a huge chunk of students fail out or fail the COMLEX I (I can't remember which it was).

 

[kelminak]

@kelminak

What SMP's are you applying to? I was accepted to both Midwestern MABS programs and Heritage University MAMS program. Best of luck to you.

I'm honestly not sure yet. I'm trying to apply to the ones with guaranteed admissions along with some in the northwest. Do you think those programs still have openings? I would consider applying to both of them (but maybe the one in Glendale instead of Downer's Grove).

 

[mfrey28]

I'm honestly not sure yet. I'm trying to apply to the ones with guaranteed admissions along with some in the northwest. Do you think those programs still have openings? I would consider applying to both of them (but maybe the one in Glendale instead of Downer's Grove).

I would venture that all 3 still have openings. The programs at Midwestern have nearly 100 students each cohort and Heritage has an expected class size of 40-50. I ended up choosing Heritage due to the linkage with PNWU, cost, and a desire to stay in PNW.

 

[kelminak]

I would venture that all 3 still have openings. The programs at Midwestern have nearly 100 students each cohort and Heritage has an expected class size of 40-50. I ended up choosing Heritage due to the linkage with PNWU, cost, and a desire to stay in PNW.

Yeah I was reading that if you wanted to, you could apply the year before you start to PNWU, then do the program and matriculate immediately after so you don't have a gap year. That would prevent me from having to take the MCAT too!! :O I'm gonna start writing a personal statement ASAP.

 

[Geo16]

Hey @Goro is LUCOMs ties to evangelism your only issue with the school? I see you throw a lot of shade their way on SDN, so just wondering if there is any more reason for this. I understand the conversion therapy thing that happened once for inaugural class and never again, anything else?

LUCOM is my only interview thus far, so I ask in the most serious of ways. Thanks.

No, Goro doesn't have any disputes with Evangelism nor Christianity itself.
Goro posted about this on November.
This one below will summarize it all.

No, it's the politics of the parent organization, and the incompetence of the Faculty at LUCOM. A search of these for a will explain.

UIW, being a Catholic school, will probably turn out fine, just like MUCOM, Loyola, SLU, Gtown, Tulane, Creighton and BU.

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/th...e-an-issue-with-lucom-but-not-uiwsom.1228109/

 

[Goro]

No, and it's only Touro-NY COM that I have reservations about.

Hey @Goro

Should Touro SMP's be avoided if that is the case? If I recall correctly, Touro was in the news for shady practices in law as well.

 

[Atom612]

@kelminak

What SMP's are you applying to? I was accepted to both Midwestern MABS programs and Heritage University MAMS program. Best of luck to you.

MWU's MABS isn't direct admit is it? They just promise an interview?

 

[kelminak]

MWU's MABS isn't direct admit is it? They just promise an interview?

https://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/cib/2017_post-bacc-programs.pdf?sfvrsn=4

"If the enrolled student meets certain eligibility requirements, entrance interview is granted." No detail of what those eligibility requirements are.

 

[mfrey28]

For MWU MABS:

Guaranteed Interview - 3.0 GPA after first 2 quarters in the program, and MCAT at least 1 standard deviation of the last year's accepted class

Guaranteed Admission - 3.6 GPA after first 2 quarters, same with MCAT, and according to the professor that interviewed me "you must perform decently in the interview"

 

[kelminak]

For MWU MABS:

Guaranteed Interview - 3.0 GPA after first 2 quarters in the program, and MCAT at least 1 standard deviation of the last year's accepted class

Guaranteed Admission - 3.6 GPA after first 2 quarters, same with MCAT, and according to the professor that interviewed me "you must perform decently in the interview"

Whoa guaranteed admission? Is there somewhere that information is online? Is this at Downers or at Glendale as well?

 

[Atom612]

For MWU MABS:

Guaranteed Interview - 3.0 GPA after first 2 quarters in the program, and MCAT at least 1 standard deviation of the last year's accepted class

Guaranteed Admission - 3.6 GPA after first 2 quarters, same with MCAT, and according to the professor that interviewed me "you must perform decently in the interview"

Are we talking most recent MCAT, or an average of multiple attempts that has to be within the standard deviation?

If you still have to interview, and perform well during the interview, can it really be considered a guarantee?

 

[mfrey28]

Are we talking most recent MCAT, or an average of multiple attempts that has to be within the standard deviation?

If you still have to interview, and perform well during the interview, can it really be considered a guarantee?

1) I'm not sure because I took it once so I did not discuss that situation with the interviewer.

2) My thoughts exactly...

 

[mfrey28]

Whoa guaranteed admission? Is there somewhere that information is online? Is this at Downers or at Glendale as well?

Information given to me by the interviewer for the MABS program at Glendale.

 

[naivePremed]

for posst-bacc/ SMPs do you have to have above 3.0 for both cGPA and sGPA? my cGPA is above 3.0 but sGPA is right below that mark with no grade replacement (no MCAT yet)

 

[kelminak]

Information given to me by the interviewer for the MABS program at Glendale.

Wow thanks for the info! I guess I have another one to apply to!

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Are we talking most recent MCAT, or an average of multiple attempts that has to be within the standard deviation?

If you still have to interview, and perform well during the interview, can it really be considered a guarantee?

The school probably has some bylaws or something saying that every admitted student must be interviewed. This doesn't mean they will take the interview seriously.

 

[Dr. Rafiki]

No, Goro doesn't have any disputes with Evangelism nor Christianity itself.
Goro posted about this on November.
This one below will summarize it all.


https://forums.studentdoctor.net/th...e-an-issue-with-lucom-but-not-uiwsom.1228109/

@Goro care to explain "incompetencies of their faculty"? I have searched the interwebs far and wide, but have read no such thing (again, aside from the first year hiccup).

I think if you're going to openly bash a fellow DO institution then some specifics are warranted, rather than ambiguous statements that anyone could make about any school in any field in any era of this country.

Thanks.

Edit: I'd really love to hear @Goro speak his own opinion, also.

Sent from my LGLS676 using SDN mobile

 

[Shotapp]

@Dr. Rafiki

You can use the search bar on the upper right corner of the page to do your research on the subject. Goro has discussed multiple times on why LUCOM should be avoided.