Question about "you're my number 1" letter, especially PD's

[Pederific]

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I can't decide if I should send my top choice program a letter stating that fact. I don't want them to question my interest, but at the same time I don't want to seem anxious, or pushy, or manipulating. I know that these letters are pretty much expected in other specialties, but I'm wondering if because Peds is more laid back and generally more humane if these letters might rub program directors the wrong way. I've sent my interviewers thank you notes saying how much I liked the program and that it was a great match for me.

Does anyone have any thoughts? Do any PD's have opinions on the "you're my number 1" letters?

Thanks!!!

 

[typeogurl7]

I thought it was illegal at first; apparently it's not. However, I still feel it is poor form. I sent out 2 emails saying that after finishing the interview season, I continue to feel that program is a great match/fit for me because [...] ...And thus implicitly but elegantly letting it be known I plan to rank them highly. Now I don't know if other applicants send thank you letters that sound like this to many programs regardless of where they will rank them, which would make the message of mine not as obvious as I think. Another reason I would feel uncomfortable sending out an email explicitly stating a ranking - anything can happen in the next month, forcing you to change your list around. Unless of course you have already certified.

 

[IrishMD08]

Why is it "poor" form to tell a program that they are your favorite? While Pediatrics is different than the other specialties in terms of competitiveness, it's got a different level of competition most people forget.

Take this example into consideration (just an example using a high-school prom)

Scenario A: Your school has 5 girls and 25 boys. For prom, those 25 guys are vying for those 5 girls and the odds favor the girls. Telling one of these girls you are her favorite may not help your odds.

Scenario B: Your school has 50 girls and 70 boys. Not as competitive at face value. Each girl has more choice. Each boy has more choice. However, if you really want one of the girls, you theoretically may have 69 other people interested in her. And one of them may have told her that they want to take her. She would have taken you but she didn't know you were interested, because you never told her. Will she take the sure bet that is interested? You tell me.

Scenario A may be the Derm, Ophtho, Orthopaedics, Radiology,etc.
Scenario B may be Peds, with 207 residencies nationwide.

So... take it with a grain of salt and consider whether a program director would (a) be put off by your interest or (b) be glad to have someone interested in their program...

 

[Lizzy Wurtzel]

hmm. What if the girl was allowed to rank all the boys in the class she liked, in order of how she liked them. And then the one that want to go with her that was highest on her list just showed up on her stoop on the night of prom? Wouldn't that just be easier?

In other words, I do think it is poor form. This process is devoid of transparency by design. Attempting to circumvent the transparency is a sign that you don't care about convention and just do what you want. Some PDs might think that is a good thing, but I doubt the majority do. I think it is a little gunnerish myself, which is one thing you NEVER want to look like in peds world, IMHO. Stating "you are number 1" is over the line, but I think it is very appropriate to toe the line and say "I was very impressed with your program, and would be elated to match there as I think it is a great fit, etc."

But I'm just a student, so take it for what it's worth.

Why is it "poor" form to tell a program that they are your favorite? While Pediatrics is different than the other specialties in terms of competitiveness, it's got a different level of competition most people forget.

Take this example into consideration (just an example using a high-school prom)

Scenario A: Your school has 5 girls and 25 boys. For prom, those 25 guys are vying for those 5 girls and the odds favor the girls. Telling one of these girls you are her favorite may not help your odds.

Scenario B: Your school has 50 girls and 70 boys. Not as competitive at face value. Each girl has more choice. Each boy has more choice. However, if you really want one of the girls, you theoretically may have 69 other people interested in her. And one of them may have told her that they want to take her. She would have taken you but she didn't know you were interested, because you never told her. Will she take the sure bet that is interested? You tell me.

Scenario A may be the Derm, Ophtho, Orthopaedics, Radiology,etc.
Scenario B may be Peds, with 207 residencies nationwide.

So... take it with a grain of salt and consider whether a program director would (a) be put off by your interest or (b) be glad to have someone interested in their program...

 

[oldbearprofessor]

I am not a PD and don't play one on any TV show. However, my personal opinion is that sending a nicely worded letter of intent (you are my #1😍) that is sincere and is sent ONLY to one place, which you actually are ranking #1 is fine and will be appreciated by the overwhelming majority of PDs. Whether they believe it or not or you can believe what they tell you is another story, but I do not in any way think there is anything wrong with sending such a letter. If it's true.

 

[mickey85]

If I do not have the email address for the PD, but only the generic email contact for the program, should I send this "love letter" to that email address?

I originally hand-wrote my thank-you notes after my interviews.

Thanks for your help.

(I know a similar question has been asked in the past, but I'm wondering about whom to email the letter to).

 

[Stitch]

I am not a PD and don't play one on any TV show. However, my personal opinion is that sending a nicely worded letter of intent (you are my #1😍) that is sincere and is sent ONLY to one place, which you actually are ranking #1 is fine and will be appreciated by the overwhelming majority of PDs. Whether they believe it or not or you can believe what they tell you is another story, but I do not in any way think there is anything wrong with sending such a letter. If it's true.

Agree. I think there's nothing wrong with such a letter as long as it's sincere. If you send it to three programs it's poor form and will look bad when you match somewhere else.

 

[IrishMD08]

hmm. What if the girl was allowed to rank all the boys in the class she liked, in order of how she liked them. And then the one that want to go with her that was highest on her list just showed up on her stoop on the night of prom? Wouldn't that just be easier?

In other words, I do think it is poor form. This process is devoid of transparency by design. Attempting to circumvent the transparency is a sign that you don't care about convention and just do what you want. Some PDs might think that is a good thing, but I doubt the majority do. I think it is a little gunnerish myself, which is one thing you NEVER want to look like in peds world, IMHO. Stating "you are number 1" is over the line, but I think it is very appropriate to toe the line and say "I was very impressed with your program, and would be elated to match there as I think it is a great fit, etc."

But I'm just a student, so take it for what it's worth.

Attempting to circumvent the transparency? So, by sincerely telling a program I really liked it and that I would love to work there is being... disingenuous? dishonest? How exactly is this unscrupulous behavior? How is this "gunnerish"?

Our Dean of Students flat out told us it is appropriate to tell your top program they are your top choice... politely, sincerely, concisely expressing your interest. It is within MATCH Guidelines as long as your statement isn't conditional (Section 6.0). So it's not dismissing convention. You did apply to that #1 program. You did interivew. After all, you are expressing interest in the program by applying and interviewing for a residency position.

As someone once said, "I gave her my heart, she gave me a pen." By telling a program they are your number one, you are just putting your cards on the table and hoping for that Ace of Spades. You're not guaranteed to get it. You are prohibited by MATCH guidelines from bullying with conditional statements to manipulate the system to get it.

"Toeing the line" still shows your intererst in the program. Is "toeing the line" devoid of transparency?

N.B. I'm not advocating telling every program they are number one. THAT is disingenuous and "gunnerish."

 

[guacamoley]

Our Dean of Students flat out told us it is appropriate to tell your top program they are your top choice... politely, sincerely, concisely expressing your interest.

Just for sample size - this was also the exact advice provided by a program director and dean of students at my medical school.

 

[Lizzy Wurtzel]

I guess I'm just not a trusting person by nature. But the way i see it,

1) if you send a "your my number 1" letter you fall into one of two categories:
Category A - straightforward, honest, and incredibly interested
Category B - slimeball who sent the same letter to multiple programs

2) If you send the same email stating how much you liked the program, but not committing to say they are number 1, you are basically in one category
Category A - honest, interested, and would be happy to attend

These letters, to me, are much less likely to be faked interest. Any time I see someone use an absolute, such as number 1, or "only" or "never" I get very nervous they are lying.

I would take 40 residents that are Category 2A rather than 30 1A plus 10 1Bs if I was a program director.

So obviously even tho i believe 75% of those people saying "you are my number 1" are genuine, there is still a big chunk that aren't honest. And I would rather not risk dealing with those individuals, or having them represent my program.

 

[Stitch]

2) If you send the same email stating how much you liked the program, but not committing to say they are number 1, you are basically in one category
Category A - honest, interested, and would be happy to attend

And why couldn't a program assume that you sent such a message to a few other programs, not quite committing to any one? I'm not saying don't send such an email if you're more comfortable with it, I'm just pointing out that either one is fine.

I'm not a PD, but I'm active with interviewing candidates and close with our PD and program coordinator, so you can take my opinions as you like.

In any case, most programs aren't going to divide you black and white into one category or another based on either email. They certainly won't assume you're a 'slimeball.' Most of what they assume to know about your personality will be based on your face to face interview. Programs do want people who will be excited to be there; if you're happy where you go, you're more likely to work hard and be dedicated, so on that basis it certainly doesn't hurt to let them know (again, honestly) where you stand.

 

[oldbearprofessor]

In evaluating candidates, PDs are using a lot of inputs to help them gauge both the fit and the likelihood of a candidate matching to their program. No one aspect is the deciding issue. Sometimes, the PD just can't get a great handle on how the candidate felt about the program. Letters of intent can help. No, they aren't perfect, but they are helpful. Interest can be faked. True love is a bit harder to fake.😛

If you don't wish to send such a letter or don't believe in them, then don't do it. But, they are legitimate and helpful for PDs.

Or not. I'm not a PD. Really.

 

[Lizzy Wurtzel]

They could do that, but I don't seen anything wrong with that. i have 3 programs that i really liked, and *if* i send a letter or intent, it would be to all 3 b/c honestly, no matter what program is called on match day, I would be ecstatic. It's just too close to call. If you stay away from absolutes, I feel this is very exceptable (and yes i realize "feel" is totally subjective).

The odds of using this approach to deliberately deceive a program into ranking them more highly, however, are much lower. They player at prom will tell his date "i love you" in order to invoke an emotional reaction in order to 'get lucky'. He doesn't say 'i like you alot and think we are a good fit'. That's kinda how I feel about the whole "you're number 1" debate. That statement is designed to elicit an emotional response from the PD. To me, that is a technique that someone deceptive would use to their advantage.

And I should reiterate, i think the vast majority, including those who posted here, are being genuine, but I will not personally make such a statement b/c of the above fear. If you have an attachment to the program and the PD knows you personally and can tease out whether you are a 1A vrs. 1B person, then I think there is little risk to the "i love you" approach. But in a 30 minute interview, I think people can be very deceptive of their true feelings and it can be really hard to get a true vibe on someone.

And why couldn't a program assume that you sent such a message to a few other programs, not quite committing to any one? I'm not saying don't send such an email if you're more comfortable with it, I'm just pointing out that either one is fine.

I'm not a PD, but I'm active with interviewing candidates and close with our PD and program coordinator, so you can take my opinions as you like.

In any case, most programs aren't going to divide you black and white into one category or another based on either email. They certainly won't assume you're a 'slimeball.' Most of what they assume to know about your personality will be based on your face to face interview. Programs do want people who will be excited to be there; if you're happy where you go, you're more likely to work hard and be dedicated, so on that basis it certainly doesn't hurt to let them know (again, honestly) where you stand.

 

[Thorzuul]

I sent my number one choice an email to the program director detailing that I was ranking them #1. I only had a brief 15 minute meet-and-greet/Q&A with the program director on interview day.

Match day, I matched to that program.

Did it hurt me? Obviously not. My program did not perceive me as a "gunner." Did it help? Tough to judge. But like always, this is n=1. I had 5 programs I liked very much, but I was split between two programs for position #1 and #2 on my rank list (the others I could stratify). But at some point, you do have to rank them. And that's the point. At some point you have to accept that you do have a #1 and #2... etc. One may be happy at all of them, but they do have to be ranked.

 

[twilightdoc]

They could do that, but I don't seen anything wrong with that. i have 3 programs that i really liked, and *if* i send a letter or intent, it would be to all 3 b/c honestly, no matter what program is called on match day, I would be ecstatic. It's just too close to call. If you stay away from absolutes, I feel this is very exceptable (and yes i realize "feel" is totally subjective).
The odds of using this approach to deliberately deceive a program into ranking them more highly, however, are much lower. They player at prom will tell his date "i love you" in order to invoke an emotional reaction in order to 'get lucky'. He doesn't say 'i like you alot and think we are a good fit'. That's kinda how I feel about the whole "you're number 1" debate. That statement is designed to elicit an emotional response from the PD. To me, that is a technique that someone deceptive would use to their advantage.
And I should reiterate, i think the vast majority, including those who posted here, are being genuine, but I will not personally make such a statement b/c of the above fear. If you have an attachment to the program and the PD knows you personally and can tease out whether you are a 1A vrs. 1B person, then I think there is little risk to the "i love you" approach. But in a 30 minute interview, I think people can be very deceptive of their true feelings and it can be really hard to get a true vibe on someone.

You should give the program directors just a little bit of credit for not being as naive as you portray them. I suspect that most have been involved in the application/ranking process much longer than you, although you seem to have become quite the expert in an amazingly short period of time.
And most programs do their ranking with some sort of committee which frequently includes some residents as well as faculty. I see no harm in a sincere "you're #1" email or letter to a single program, although it isn't necessary. I do see a potential problem in the "I really liked your program" email, however- that might be interpreted as "I really liked you, but you aren't my top choice". I tell my advisees to send the courtesy "thank you" note soon after the interview, and that the "you're number one" email is optional and should not be an expectation of a given program. I have had a student applying in a specialty other than Pediatrics tell me that the department chair at a major university told her that "if you are going to rank us number one, you need to tell us, because we have our pick of excellent applicants." Fortunately she had the good sense not to rank them highly and matched at her first choice, another quality program without the implied requirement of a commitment.

 

[typeogurl7]

I do see a potential problem in the "I really liked your program" email, however- that might be interpreted as "I really liked you, but you aren't my top choice".

Uh-oh, I'm getting worried! I definitely did not want to send THAT message! In my case, I have been emailing back and forth since my interview at the beginning of the season October with the PD, asst PD, faculty members about various aspects of the program, so I hope I have sufficiently underlined my interest...

Personally, since I have a family, I feel like there are always possible (if unlikely) factors that may come up and alter my decision despite my love for my #1 program, so I'm hesitant to speak in absolutes until the list is sent and certified. But after your comment above, I'm starting to wish I had just come out and said it...

 

[twilightdoc]

Uh-oh, I'm getting worried! I definitely did not want to send THAT message! In my case, I have been emailing back and forth since my interview at the beginning of the season October with the PD, asst PD, faculty members about various aspects of the program, so I hope I have sufficiently underlined my interest...
Personally, since I have a family, I feel like there are always possible (if unlikely) factors that may come up and alter my decision despite my love for my #1 program, so I'm hesitant to speak in absolutes until the list is sent and certified. But after your comment above, I'm starting to wish I had just come out and said it...

Despair not. I honestly don't think that most selection committees in Pediatrics read too much into emails, etc., whether they say "I love you and you alone" or "I really like you a lot"...

 

[bel138]

I sent an email to the PD at my top choice stating they were my #1. However, I also traveled 8 hours to go to a second look at the program and met with him again before that. I doubt that looks like I'm a gunner that's sending the same email to all the programs.

Even if I hadn't gone on a second look, I would still have sent them an email. Because really, I don't think that PDs can get a good sense of who is sincerely interested during a 10 minute wrap up at the end of the day. Your opinion of the program may have shifted significantly after interacting with the residents and attendings and taking a tour, but you're not going to go in there and act like someone kicked your puppy. I'm sure no one is acting disinterested on interviews that they know aren't their number one.

 

[twilightdoc]

I sent an email to the PD at my top choice stating they were my #1. However, I also traveled 8 hours to go to a second look at the program and met with him again before that. I doubt that looks like I'm a gunner that's sending the same email to all the programs.
Even if I hadn't gone on a second look, I would still have sent them an email. Because really, I don't think that PDs can get a good sense of who is sincerely interested during a 10 minute wrap up at the end of the day. Your opinion of the program may have shifted significantly after interacting with the residents and attendings and taking a tour, but you're not going to go in there and act like someone kicked your puppy. I'm sure no one is acting disinterested on interviews that they know aren't their number one.

Although "second look" visits aren't particularly common in Peds, I don't think that makes an applicant look like a gunner. The same goes for a sincere letter or email. What matters more is how the applicant acts during the interview or second visit and the tone and content of the emails or other correspondence.
Maybe it's a good thing if the real "gunners" act like "gunners"- at least programs will be aware of that aspect of the applicant. And there may be some programs that might value those attributes. I think it is a good thing if a program knows what it is getting in an applicant, and vice-versa- not just the academics, board scores, etc., but personality, work ethic, stress resistance, ability to work in a collaborative environment, etc.

 

[Thorzuul]

Yeah, if anything, sending a "You're my #1" email/letter isn't going to move someone from a non-gunner to gunner status. At this point after the interviews, programs should have a feel of the type of applicant the person is, gunner or not. If all the applicant wants is some perceived reputation and doesn't care about happiness/co-workers/work ethic/being a team player/location its probably already shined through. When I interviewed, some of those type of applicants were easy to spot, and I didn't even need a 30 min interview to figure that out! Thankfully Pediatrics is a specialty that probably has a lower ratio of gunner's entering.



For all the current applicants considering it, these next few days are probably the last days a "You're my #1" letter/email can be sent and possibly have an impact, since most programs are finalizing their lists now.

And one more thought, some programs do elicit feedback from residents. So if you feel uncomfortable about sending a note to the program director, but are still considering it, you could always think about emailing a resident and they may pass the word. Just another option for those who are on the fence about it.

 

[Lizzy Wurtzel]

You should give the program directors just a little bit of credit for not being as naive as you portray them.

I didn't mean to say that PDs are "naive." i think some appliants are just that awesome at "playing the game" that in limited time with an attending/interviewer they can come across very differently than how their peers view them.

I suspect that most have been involved in the application/ranking process much longer than you, although you seem to have become quite the expert in an amazingly short period of time

.

I'm not saying I could tell in a 15 minute interaction who these folks are. I can't either. And I never claimed that I was an expert; I was very straightforward in my first post that I'm "just a medical student."

And most programs do their ranking with some sort of committee which frequently includes some residents as well as faculty.

Yes, I liked those programs. Also, some (at least were rumored) have the administrators and secretaries with red flagging power. I thought that was an excellent idea.

I see no harm in a sincere "you're #1" email or letter to a single program, although it isn't necessary. I do see a potential problem in the "I really liked your program" email, however- that might be interpreted as "I really liked you, but you aren't my top choice".

Yeah, I realize my approach is very non-committal, but I guess I just feel a program that requires a commitment is not really where I want to be. The programs that were really hands off, implicitly stated that they would not be calling to say "i love you", etc, were really the ones that I liked. They realized this is a stressful and important decision for us and were just trying to help us make a choice that will be good for us. Not all programs had this mentality. I mean, why would programs want to pressure someone into coming? What incentive is there for having a bunch of unhappy residents, even if they are the cream of the crop applicants? I hate pushy salesmen, and any program that gave me that vibe was automatically eliminated for me.

I tell my advisees to send the courtesy "thank you" note soon after the interview, and that the "you're number one" email is optional and should not be an expectation of a given program. I have had a student applying in a specialty other than Pediatrics tell me that the department chair at a major university told her that "if you are going to rank us number one, you need to tell us, because we have our pick of excellent applicants." Fortunately she had the good sense not to rank them highly and matched at her first choice, another quality program without the implied requirement of a commitment.

Thanks for your input Twilight doc. It really is nice to have the calming presence of the non-neurotic on the board. I'm totally aware that I'm one of the more neurotic here, and I hope I didn't scare anyone or worry anyone. These type of decisions should come with informed consent. Even if unlikely, what can go wrong... That's all I was trying to offer, but it seems the majority think i'm silly, so send away SDN 🙂