Bull's eye

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I am in orthopaedic residency and my best friend is getting his Associates in nursing. We plan to work together when all is said and done. He is wanting to get his masters eventually. He is a single father with 4 kids (yep that's right 4). He is incredibly smart. What I want to know is what options does he have in terms of getting his NP degree and able to work with me as a provider? Does he have to get a BSN or can he just complete a BS/BA degree before getting his masters? If he decides to try some of this online stuff (RN to BSN) how will that affect his application to NP school? When applying for his NP what criteria does he have to look for to ensure that he will be able to be a Provider in my office (follow ups, first assist, H&P's, D/C summaries, some call, Rx's and rounding). I know of one person who got their NP degree was in a OB office, quit, then went into ortho and was unable to be a provider for some reason or another. This is why I ask.
 

emedpa

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if ortho is the goal he might want to look into pa as well. there are also post grad 1 yr ortho residencies for pa's(see www.appap.org). as far as I know there are no ortho np programs....
 

sunnyjohn

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FYI,

allnurses.com has WHOLE sections on stuff like this ( MSN programs, NP programs, Distance learning, etc)

If you post you will get tons of responses.
 
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Bull's eye

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sunnyjohn said:
FYI,

allnurses.com has WHOLE sections on stuff like this ( MSN programs, NP programs, Distance learning, etc)

If you post you will get tons of responses.
Thank you I will check it out. emedpa, I think he wishes he could have the PA option, but because of his living arrangements (SE Kansas) There are no schools around.
 
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Bull's eye

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Freeeedom! said:
I would have to agree with emedpa on this one, PA is the way to go.
Yeah, the more I look at it the more I think he will have to go that route to do what he wants to do.
 

Freeeedom!

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I say that ONLY if he does not want to do medicine (ie Physician).

The number one student in my class of 220 was a mother of 3...So if this person truly wants a career in medicine, be a Physician.
If the choice is between PA or NP...without a doubt, choose a PA.
 

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There is a profession called OPA; orthopedic physician assistant which is not at all a PA in any stretch of the imagination. I am not sure how you go about getting it, but I have seen them practice pretty much like a PA in the ortho settings. The guy just needs to decide what it is worth to him to work with you. He should just go to PA school in Oklahoma or Kansas and just suck up the 2 years of commuting. Its only 2 years, and you can seriously pay him well enough to have made his investment well worth it. Sweeten the pot and offer him a loan repayment deal and maybe that will stimulate him to do the PA thing. Bottom line is that PA's own the orthopedic midlevel world. NP's are not common due to their lack of real surgical experience and education.
 

emedpa

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If I am remembering correctly I think most(all?) of the opa programs became regular pa programs over the last 15 years. I know a few guys in california who are opa's but they have been practicing>25 years. anyone know if any opa programs still exist?
matt is right about pa's and ortho/surgery. I know tons of pa's who do this and not 1 np.
 

chicoborja

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Bull's eye said:
Yeah, the more I look at it the more I think he will have to go that route to do what he wants to do.
I'm not sure where in SE Kansas your friend lives but the only PA program in KS (master's program at Wichita State University) I believe is trying to gear itself more towards non-traditional distance education. Not by any means as complete distance education but making it so that students only have to be on campus 2 to 3 days a week and some classes taught via internet. Clinicals would be unaffected of course.
 

indo

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Don't forget about entry level NP programs like Loma Linda, UCSF, and Ohio State. They're 3 year programs that award Master's in nursing...
 
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Bull's eye

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chicoborja said:
I'm not sure where in SE Kansas your friend lives but the only PA program in KS (master's program at Wichita State University) I believe is trying to gear itself more towards non-traditional distance education. Not by any means as complete distance education but making it so that students only have to be on campus 2 to 3 days a week and some classes taught via internet. Clinicals would be unaffected of course.
That is very interesting. I'll tell him about this. Basically, I spoke with him and said you should go PA and we looked up the closest places, Springfield MO and Wichita. So, he is planning on finding an RN to BSN bridge then looking at his options from there. Something else that came up, should he do the RN to BSN (filling the reqs for PA school of course) or just apply his credits toward a BS in like Biology or something(this will take longer)? I know that competetion is fierce for PA programs.
 

emedpa

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Bull's eye said:
That is very interesting. I'll tell him about this. Basically, I spoke with him and said you should go PA and we looked up the closest places, Springfield MO and Wichita. So, he is planning on finding an RN to BSN bridge then looking at his options from there. Something else that came up, should he do the RN to BSN (filling the reqs for PA school of course) or just apply his credits toward a BS in like Biology or something(this will take longer)? I know that competetion is fierce for PA programs.
he could also bypass rn entirely. do an ortho tech or surgical tech training program, work with you for a yr or 2 in that capacity while taking pa prereqs on the side then apply pa.
 

chicoborja

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emedpa said:
he could also bypass rn entirely. do an ortho tech or surgical tech training program, work with you for a yr or 2 in that capacity while taking pa prereqs on the side then apply pa.
I disagree with emedpa. Your friend is already in an ADN nursing program and he prob wants to finish it up. I believe it would be counterproductive for him to stop and work as an ortho tech or surg tech. I am dont know about the program in MO but the program in Wichita is a masters therefore he'll need to get a bachelors but what its in is less important. I recommend he go the ADN to BSN route then he will have the option of choosing which program (nursing or PA) he wants to pursue. On, the other hand if the program in MO is a bachelors he should go for that because he'll get done faster. If you're friend is as smart as u say he is (which he prob is) then he shouldnt have trouble gettin into a PA program especially already being a nurse. One thing worth mentioning is interaction between his education and family life. The PA program would likely stress his family situation much more than the MSN program. The more that I think about it (unless its a bachelors program in MO) I'd say have him do the ADN to BSN and then complete the MSN with the appopriate concentration (although I dont know which that would be for ortho...possibly family? acute care?)
 

emedpa

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If he already is in an adn program then I agree, he should complete it. but if he is still doing prereqs he could save some time by going ortho tech to certificate/a.s./bs pa program.
regarding this statement:
"I'd say have him do the ADN to BSN and then complete the MSN with the appopriate concentration (although I dont know which that would be for ortho...possibly family? acute care?)"
I don't believe there is an appropriate msn for ortho surgery. there are no surgical np training programs to the best of my knowledge-someone please correct me if I am wrong here.....I have never seen a job announcement for an ortho or surgical np in all my time following midlevels and the journals-even those that have both a pa and np focus like clinician reviews- have never had a job posted for surgical or ortho np to my recollection but have pa jobs every month in these fields......if he wanted to go into ob and deliver lots of kids I would say go nurse midwife all the way, but ortho and the surgical subspecialties are the domain of pa's.....
 

chicoborja

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emedpa said:
I don't believe there is an appropriate msn for ortho surgery. there are no surgical np training programs to the best of my knowledge-someone please correct me if I am wrong here.....I have never seen a job announcement for an ortho or surgical np in all my time following midlevels and the journals-even those that have both a pa and np focus like clinician reviews- have never had a job posted for surgical or ortho np to my recollection but have pa jobs every month in these fields......if he wanted to go into ob and deliver lots of kids I would say go nurse midwife all the way, but ortho and the surgical subspecialties are the domain of pa's.....
I'd agree that if there even are any surgical MSN programs that they are rare indeed. A PA program may indeed better prepare him for a job as a ortho mid-level; however, if I were in his situation my family would be my first priority. If he chooses to pursue a MSN, the CNS rather than the NP route may be the way to go. I think I might have seen one or two surgical CNS programs but I am definitely not positive about that. If he chose a different concentration (Acute Care) then he would likely have a good deal of independent learning in regards to your specific specialty but no doubt your friend could do it. For example I know of a CNS who specializes in Otolaryngology and there's no particular MSN program that trains one for that. I believe she did her thesis on an otology-related topic and that no doubt familiarized her with specific (albeit very narrow, not broad enough for all ENT) topics within that area. I do not know whether she actually assisted in surgery. Well, I may have beat around the bush but my point is PA is prob better education-wise but MSN may be better for his family life and he still can do it, it just may require some independent study
 
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Bull's eye

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Thanks for all the responses. I have learned a lot in the past few days. My friend will actually finish his ADN in May and can go to a RN to BSN locally, and will still be able to get his PA prereqs out of the way. THe program in MO is a masters degree. He told me today that he may be able to do some via internet correspondence. But he still hasn't ruled out NP. We'll have to see.