How long does it take AVERAGE for a general dentist to pay off loans and buy a house after graduation?!
Question for dentists
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Took me 5 years with 130k in debt and a 450k home.
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Way too many variables to put more than a wide time range on this one...
How much student loan debt?
What's the price of the house you're looking at?
What's your work situation like (how much cash flow monthly will you be having)?
What other debt obligations do you/don't you have?
How good, or not so good, are you/will you be at sticking to a budget post dental school when you start making some $$?
What is your view of paying down debt as quickly as possible by whatever means vs starting to put more away for retirement early on and carry the education debt a little longer?
Etc
How much student loan debt?
What's the price of the house you're looking at?
What's your work situation like (how much cash flow monthly will you be having)?
What other debt obligations do you/don't you have?
How good, or not so good, are you/will you be at sticking to a budget post dental school when you start making some $$?
What is your view of paying down debt as quickly as possible by whatever means vs starting to put more away for retirement early on and carry the education debt a little longer?
Etc
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There are alot of variables...but I would say in general: a long time. I graduated at 26...and I plan to be debt free- practice loan, student loan, house by 38. I'm 35 now.
12 years here. I think for the majority of people late 30's early 40's is a good estimate. Usually practice finances are setup at 10 years- so if you buy a practice- you in theory pay it off in 10 years. You use that cash flow from the practice to invest, 401k, and pay off the mortgage/student loans. So if your practice is very healthy- 300-400k income- you can use the extra income to pay off the rest of your debts.
But if your practice isn't healthy, then your debts will stay with you into your 50's and 60's. And I do know dentists in both spectrums- ones in booming practices and others in so-so situations. I think late 30's early 40's is a good average. Young 30's and you have people that either really focused on debt repayments and not investing etc or perhaps they have an extremely good practice etc. It's good to balance it out either way.
Regardless I would say dentistry is a very stable, good job, but it's not like what you probably have heard...which is porsche, country club, 4 day week, vacations etc. That stuff comes after all the debt is paid which takes a decade or more. It's not like you graduate and get it all tomorrow. That's what you have to understand about dentistry. You have to work hard. It's not easy.
Another "problem" you have to understand is that dentistry does not keep up with inflation. In your career- the amount you make will prob be the "same" amount throughout your career. While everything else "inflates" due to inflation, yours won't. So while you ask the question "about buying a house after graduation etc." just understand that buying a house in 2010- an average one in my neighborhood was like 400-600k. Today that same house is selling for 1-1.5 million. In the span of 10 years that house went up 1 million +...while your salary didn't.
So for me to be debt free in 12 years- it might be debt free for YOU in 15-20 years because you will have a harder time getting the same things (prices) I did due to inflation. Of course- if you go live in the middle of nowhere and buy some rinky dink house for 200k, then you will be debt free quicker. But the statement still stands- that due to inflation, you are pretty much behind the curve- because that rinky dink house was prob 50k in 2010.
12 years here. I think for the majority of people late 30's early 40's is a good estimate. Usually practice finances are setup at 10 years- so if you buy a practice- you in theory pay it off in 10 years. You use that cash flow from the practice to invest, 401k, and pay off the mortgage/student loans. So if your practice is very healthy- 300-400k income- you can use the extra income to pay off the rest of your debts.
But if your practice isn't healthy, then your debts will stay with you into your 50's and 60's. And I do know dentists in both spectrums- ones in booming practices and others in so-so situations. I think late 30's early 40's is a good average. Young 30's and you have people that either really focused on debt repayments and not investing etc or perhaps they have an extremely good practice etc. It's good to balance it out either way.
Regardless I would say dentistry is a very stable, good job, but it's not like what you probably have heard...which is porsche, country club, 4 day week, vacations etc. That stuff comes after all the debt is paid which takes a decade or more. It's not like you graduate and get it all tomorrow. That's what you have to understand about dentistry. You have to work hard. It's not easy.
Another "problem" you have to understand is that dentistry does not keep up with inflation. In your career- the amount you make will prob be the "same" amount throughout your career. While everything else "inflates" due to inflation, yours won't. So while you ask the question "about buying a house after graduation etc." just understand that buying a house in 2010- an average one in my neighborhood was like 400-600k. Today that same house is selling for 1-1.5 million. In the span of 10 years that house went up 1 million +...while your salary didn't.
So for me to be debt free in 12 years- it might be debt free for YOU in 15-20 years because you will have a harder time getting the same things (prices) I did due to inflation. Of course- if you go live in the middle of nowhere and buy some rinky dink house for 200k, then you will be debt free quicker. But the statement still stands- that due to inflation, you are pretty much behind the curve- because that rinky dink house was prob 50k in 2010.
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I am 35 years old now & I am getting married this year. I came to this country when I was in my twenties. I got my BS in microbiology when I was 30. Dentistry was always my dream
job. I had to work as a microbiologist for 3 years due to not having money , but I quit cuz I always wanted dentistry. I couldn’t get in because my gpa was low. I had English problem & I was working 3 jobs. Now I am a hygiene students at a very high ranked dental school , and I am getting all As. My school says I can get into dental school if I apply this year.I worked very hard to get to dental school during these years, but my age and getting married kind of makes me think twice. By the time my school is done I will have 600k debt & I am talking about a 800k-900k house . Any honest advice will be appreciated.
job. I had to work as a microbiologist for 3 years due to not having money , but I quit cuz I always wanted dentistry. I couldn’t get in because my gpa was low. I had English problem & I was working 3 jobs. Now I am a hygiene students at a very high ranked dental school , and I am getting all As. My school says I can get into dental school if I apply this year.I worked very hard to get to dental school during these years, but my age and getting married kind of makes me think twice. By the time my school is done I will have 600k debt & I am talking about a 800k-900k house . Any honest advice will be appreciated.
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Honestly I would stick with hygiene. In my area, you can get paid 60-70$ an hour with full benefits working 4 days a week. That's a 100k-120k salary for a new grad. Alot of new grad dentists start out at 150k, and when you factor in the loans and practice loan etc- they are way behind compared to a dental hygienist- and they make less per hour then a hygienist.
Plus if you were to graduate later in life 40, you are already behind the curve. We are looking at 50-60+ before you are debt free. And who know's where your health will be at 50. Dentist's produce at their prime at 30-45. You are missing your prime years. I don't think it's worth it to be honest. Just my opinion.
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If you work until age 69, (assuming 4 years in DS) you could have your student loan paid off at retirement with monthly payments of $3,911.50/month!
--BTW-- That is paid with after tax dollars.
---That would mean that about 1/3 of your total income would go to student loan payments during your entire career.
---That would mean you could NEVER take more than a day or two off, you could never afford to get sick or injured, never take time off to have a baby or take care of kids, and don't ever consider a divorce, because that loan payment does not take a day off .
Let's not even talk about the loan for the house...
D
deleted923283
I used to think I would pay off debt early, then I decided to specialize, 🙃 I’m not that smart after all.
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If you start dental school and then specialize early enough (straight out of college….no gap years), then it’s not a bad decision. It’s actually a great decision…..practicing general dentistry is hard. You’ll have more years to work…..to make more money (to pay off debts and to make up for the loss of income earning potential) when you start working at younger age.
I agree with Jst21121. The OP should stick to dental hygiene. If he was 10-12 years younger, I would tell him to go for dentistry. OP, having a $600k debt at 40 is definitely not the situation you want to be in. You won’t have enough time to pay off all the debts + to save for retirement. You are most productive when you are in your mid 20s to late 30s….young, healthy, no kids. Your body will not be the same after you turn 40. If your spouse also works F/T, you two can afford to buy a $800-900k house with your dental hygiene job.
What Charles and others have said, the math isnt in your favor at 40 years old, you have lost your biggest competive advantage that is time, you can make 70 % dental associate money doing hygiene for a fraction of the cost of a dental education, if you work hard 5 to 6 days a week doing hygiene you can do well.
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Now THIS is a dose of reality pre dental/dental students. Read this and take the red pill.
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The drum will continue to be beat until tuition drops or enrollment drops.
Holly Brown
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It typically takes a few years after dental school for a general dentist to pay off loans and buy a house. Depending on your current financial situation, the time required could be more or less. It is essential to consider other factors, such as your debt upon graduation, your income potential in dentistry, and the current real estate market. Additionally, it may be beneficial to create a budget and plan out your expenses to determine how quickly you can pay off loans and save up for a down payment on a home. With careful planning and dedication to paying off debt, we can minimize the time it takes to repay loans and purchase a house after graduation. Good luck!
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The OP specifically mentions paying off $600,000 in student loans and a $900,000 home. I’m afraid that’s going to take a lot more than “a few years.” Oh, and they won’t even start paying that down until they are 40 years old or older.
Any chance you’re on the payroll at NYU or USC? If so, can you please send my watch? Thanks in advance.
Big Hoss
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Rolling my eyes at how casually they mention "paying off 600k dental school loans" I agree, likely working for the university... or stupid...
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Dental students are you reading this thread? If you choose a place like USC go ahead and get ready to spend 80k on a converted van to live in. Not a single thing wrong with that either!
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I fully intend to see you as an expert on Fox News or CNN weighing in on dental school loan debt.
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Agree. Don't think it would be a wise decision financially
You and I always advocate for both medicine and dentistry. I have come to realize that people don't appreciate how good dentistry and medicine are financially.
A few of my colleagues are already multi millionaire in their mid 40s... The ones that have been working for 4-5 yrs already own couple homes, driving nice cars etc...
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I advise to steer away from dentistry when the debt is too high and the individual does not have the personality/maturity to handle that situation. There are so many people in dental school who don’t have the faintest clue about how to operate in life! They have no idea what they’re walking into. All they think is “Oh I’ll make enough to pay it off,” “I’ll make 100 grand I’ll be good.” They have no idea about malpractice, adult bills, taxes, and then that sweet sweet loan payment to just cover the interest😛. Meanwhile, they think they’ll only clock 40< hours a week. What a complete joke! This is grossly irresponsible thinking and there needs to be serious cultural change. Dentistry CAN make you very wealthy, but this path could ALSO screw people up royally.
Most people medicine and dentistry come from mid-to-upper middle class family. They never had a job, so it makes sense for a good chunk of them to be clueless about finances.
I think 300k is a reasonable debt if salary potential is 200k+
Thank you for all the comments ! The dentist I was working for he always told me to go to dentistry. He even got mad that I chose dental hygiene ! He said you have 25 years to work & you love it , you will regret it if you don’t do it. & all these negative comments ?! Thanks for all the comments.
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It’s reasonable if the field had promise for growth. I can guarantee you pretty much that rent, wages, supplies, fixed costs will continue to go up year over year while your income dwindled year over year. Unless you are OON/FFS and can convince patients to pay 3% yearly increases.
At least with tech or other specialized jobs you can job hop to another job and get a 10-20% pay bump. My friends in these fields literally do this. Jump ship every 2-3 years for guaranteed raises.
Typical job switcher got a pay raise of nearly 10%, study finds
Many workers who switched jobs as the labor market emerged from its Covid pandemic slumber saw wages outpace inflation by a wide margin, a new study found.
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Did this dentist have to pay back $600,000 in student loans? Doubt it. If you wanted to pay that back in 20 years - THAT’S TWO DECADES - your monthly loan payment will be $4,600! That’s $55,000 a year! Here’s the real kicker, that’s after tax money. So, you will have to earn $70,000 a year for 20 years just to pay for your student loans! I want you to run these numbers by this dentist and then see if they’d still recommend dentistry for you.
Big Hoss
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Calculate the interest on that at about 6.5% interest, which is about the current rate, it could be higher and the house could be more when you finish. You are paying about 8k per month in interest alone. Don't do it. There's a reason Albert Einstein said “Compound interest is the eighth wonder of the world. He who understands it, earns it … he who doesn’t … pays it.”. Don't get in such debt and have a nice life. Good luck.
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Don't forget this dentist prob bought his house for 100-300k...if he was going big baller status prob 500-1 million $.... and that has all appreciated 2-3x. He also had prob rode the last bull run up with his earnings invested- probably doubling if not tripling his net investment. And most likely this dentist probably had "reasonable" debt of like 100-200k of student loans.
All the while working 4 days a week. I mean if I was in that gold-i-locks scenario- I would also recommend dentistry.
But times change, and the opportunity to make the same amount as the previous generation dentist...probably isn't there.
Don't take the past for future performance. Student loans today are much higher. Housing is much higher. Competition is much stiffer (along with more corporates). The bull run was a great story (mostly due to 0 bound interest rates)- but can it be repeated? I dunno. Rent is higher. Wages are higher. Supply costs are higher. What is not higher are your earnings most likely.
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Yea but how are you supposed to convince pre dental students with extreme cognitive dissonance of this reality? They genuinely think they'll make enough to pay it off. It's like a deeply held belief in Santa Clause. They have so much cost sunk into getting to dental school that they think there is no turning back if they only have an acceptance to an expensive school. It's okay to not sign up for so much debt! It's okay to say no! You're still valuable even if you choose to not go to dental school!
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The reality of money is that people don't know or understand the value of money...until they really start working. Paying off the mortgage, car insurance, having kids, saving for a down payment, paying off loans....then you realize- that paying back 600k in a "few years" isn't that easy.
But I'm not here to throw shade. I used to tell my parents- oh yeah- as a dentist I'll make 300k and pay it back in 2 years because 300k+300k is 600k!. LOL yeah, like I said, when you actually start working and earning money. It's not that easy.
Welcome to the real world buddy.
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OP, I dug around and you have started multiple similar threads. Every single one of them yielded the same advice as this one. What do you think that tells you? You also mention your GPA is 3.1. There’s a significant chance you don’t even get into dental school the first time you apply, and then what? Apply again? If you do get in, with your GPA there’s a real chance it’s to a school like USC and your student loan balance would be closer to $750,000-$800,000.
You are going to do what you are going to do. You are the one signing the promissory note on these loans. You’re the one who’ll be stuck paying them back for decades. Best of luck!
Big Hoss
You are going to do what you are going to do. You are the one signing the promissory note on these loans. You’re the one who’ll be stuck paying them back for decades. Best of luck!
Big Hoss
Let's be honest here: Prestige also plays a big role in people's decision making when it comes to going to d school.
I dont think the poster will listen to us. The poster probably sees the lifestyle that dentist has and thinks he can replicate that.
I dont think the poster will listen to us. The poster probably sees the lifestyle that dentist has and thinks he can replicate that.
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Prestige 🤣 Being BROKE is NOT prestigious. I could care LESS if someone calls me doctor nowadays. I just want to make a living.
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Sad..Prestige.
At the end of the day, dentistry will allow you to have a 4 day workweek..but it will take time to get there if not decades. I feel prestige is a young person's ego talking. There is no prestige later in life. It's about enjoying life and taking care of your kids and family- not showing off for others.
At the end of the day, dentistry will allow you to have a 4 day workweek..but it will take time to get there if not decades. I feel prestige is a young person's ego talking. There is no prestige later in life. It's about enjoying life and taking care of your kids and family- not showing off for others.
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Because you are already a doctor. Pre-dent and pre-med don't see it that way
Lol. I agree
All physicians and dentists I know live in 3000+ sqft home and travel to Europe every year and drive nice cars.
The good things about dentistry and medicine is that you can work your ass off if you want to make more money. For instance, the average salary for hospitalist make ~280k/yr... yet I know some who make 500k+/yr. I myself made 405k last year. It's enticing when they are paying you ~$2250/day when you work extra shifts
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Lol... bro, you have alot to learn. Appearances can be deceiving. They can be leveraged to the hilt with debt..
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Some dentists APPEAR rich. You can bet you'll see young dentists with nice cars and houses. The secret is they're barely hanging on man. It's all borrowed money.
If you are not rich (2+ millions net worth) as a dentist after working for 20+ yrs, it's either you have been divorced or you are bad with money...
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I dunno man, 2 million now-a-days is nothing. My accountant says 10 mil is the new 1 mil...meaning 10 mil is what he thinks I should aim for before retirement. You can thank all the money printing and asset inflation.
The only way to get to that level as a dentist is investing/real estate/stocks etc. Your practice ain't gonna bring in that much...unless you are an extreme outlier.
Your accountant is nuts...
2 millions is not a lot but one can retire with 3-4 mil if your home is paid off.
JETI pays a dividend of almost 12%. If you have 1 mil in JETI, you make ~120k/yr
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That's what I thought to...but hes like- if you wanna travel, live in a high cost of living area, and LEAVE something behind for your kids that is worthwhile- then 10 million is where it's at. 2 kids with 2 mil eh, by the time I pass on, 1 million dollars will be "nothing." Just look around, 10-20 years ago- 3-5$ could buy something small maybe a lunch meal. Today you need to spend 15-20$ for a lunch meal. It's just the law of inflation and fiat currency. Print print print, and you end up with devaluation of money.
I wouldnt be surprised in 10 years with the next whatever financial crisis- where they print even more money that you will be paying 20-30$ for a lunch meal.
I would even argue that the new 1$ bill is the 10$ bill. You can't buy anything for 1$ anymore, and 10$ barely gets you by.
Leave each one of your kids a house and they will be fine. That's what I plan on doing.
D
deleted923283
A bunch of old guys complaining about massive debt to a pre-dent who won’t even get into a dental school is the most SDN thing there is.
Hi, I’m Dr.Ivy - I set my thermostat to 45F when I leave my old tiny apartment, take the train because I can’t afford to fix my car right now, stopped buying eggs months ago, and occasionally beg my mother to send me $100 to help me pay the rent.
Now you know a broke dentist. There are plenty. Like my guy said above - a lot are living on borrowed money, pretending to be rich, when in fact they’re even more broke than I am.
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That's not true...you just may not have understood compounding interest. Starting your career off with 1.5million in debt at about 7% is an easy way to be worth less than 2 million in 20 years.
1.5 million in debt at todays interest rate to payoff in 20 years is about 11.5k per month. If you make 300k per year (more than your average dentist) then you will make about 17k per month after taxes. That leaves you with 5.5k per month for health insurance, malpractice, food, car payments, etc. News flash you won't be able to save 2 million dollars during that 20 year payoff period.
Everyone would be so much better off if they did the math ahead of time.
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Wow those numbers are sobering. 500k-1 mil for a practice, 500k to 800k for a house (in my area), and then student loans x amount.
Really sobering
This is very true for the vast majority, divorce for small businesses like dentist with a stay at home partner, its game over.
Alot of this depends on when you plan on retiring 45 vs 60 or later, also the lifestyle you are looking to have in retirement. But 2 million, no debt and SS kicks in you should be in good shape.
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