Question for female premed students

[priorities2]

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Okay, sorry if this post is sexist, as it could also apply to guys. But as a female somewhat considering premed for psychiatry, I am a little bit concerned about the fact that I would be done with residency at age 30 and wouldn't start working as an actual psychiatrist until 31. That's the exact age where I would want to start having kids. I wouldn't mind taking a couple years off after med school to have kids and then going back to work, but don't psychiatrists work like 45 hours a week? It seems like it would be difficult to have such young kids and working full time as a psychiatrist. Especially after having taken 1-2 years off after med school. Thoughts on this issue? Am I overestimating how hard it would be?

 

[Ironmandoc]

There are a million threads on raising children/ having a family in medicine. Use the search function next time please.

 

[priorities2]

I did search but all the threads had to do with having kids during med school/residency. I'm wondering about directly after. I'll check again though.

 

[xroc]

Okay, sorry if this post is sexist, as it could also apply to guys. But as a female somewhat considering premed for psychiatry, I am a little bit concerned about the fact that I would be done with residency at age 30 and wouldn't start working as an actual psychiatrist until 31. That's the exact age where I would want to start having kids. I wouldn't mind taking a couple years off after med school to have kids and then going back to work, but don't psychiatrists work like 45 hours a week? It seems like it would be difficult to have such young kids and working full time as a psychiatrist. Especially after having taken 1-2 years off after med school. Thoughts on this issue? Am I overestimating how hard it would be?

the field of psychiatry is also perhaps known as one of the most lifestyle friendly medical specialties ... so keep that in mind when you consider your goals in life and medicine as a career.

 

[LizzyM]

Many women, including practicing physicians, work 40+ hours/wk while bearing and raising children. In the US, the proportion of women who are working full-time while parenting children under the age of 5 is growing every year.

You need to have childcare you are comfortable with and, ideally, you should arrange your home/work so that your commuting time is minimized.

 

[kaffiene88]

Medicine is a lifestyle choice not merely a career choice

 

[munchymanRX]

We need to bring back nannies in the US. Au pairs also work.

 

[UnclePhil]

Are you seriously complaining about working 45 hours a week?

What kind of full-time job would you be thinking about getting outside of medicine that wouldn't require 8-5, M-F?

 

[Praefectus]

Are you seriously complaining about working 45 hours a week?

What kind of full-time job would you be thinking about getting outside of medicine that wouldn't require 8-5, M-F?

At least she isn't looking at derm and complaining about 40...

 

[priorities2]

Are you seriously complaining about working 45 hours a week?

What kind of full-time job would you be thinking about getting outside of medicine that wouldn't require 8-5, M-F?

Lol. Okay, this is a valid point. I probably am overestimating how difficult it would be. It's just that I've gotten mixed messages as far as the intensity of the actual psychiatrist job.. ie the number of hours involved for that 180k salary.

 

[Mountaineer12]

Most physicians work a lot more than 45 hours. 45 hours is barely more than normal full time, which a lot of women do with children. Women have had babies in medicine when working 80 hours. It's about quality of time spent with your family, not quantity.

 

[Dave89]

Most physicians work a lot more than 45 hours. 45 hours is barely more than normal full time, which a lot of women do with children. Women have had babies in medicine when working 80 hours. It's about quality of time spent with your family, not quantity.

I strongly disagree with this. Raising a family is not like studying for a test - the amount of time spent interacting with your children does matter. It's not like a "supermom" can get all of her parenting done in 1 hour/day if she's "efficient." 🙂

 

[UnclePhil]

Lol. Okay, this is a valid point. I probably am overestimating how difficult it would be. It's just that I've gotten mixed messages as far as the intensity of the actual psychiatrist job.. ie the number of hours involved for that 180k salary.

45 hours for a $150-$200k salary is far from "intense". That is about how much any full time employee in ANY field works, and considering that you could potentially have a very cushy job in a private practice, outpatient clinic setting, managing medications, with very little call and very few working weekends, I'm a little hard-pressed to believe that you think this is "busy" or "intense" by any means. You will basically not have those kinds of hours in any other field in medicine, except maybe derm.

 

[priorities2]

45 hours for a $150-$200k salary is far from "intense".

So with this you are implying that a psychiatrist working 45 hrs a week makes 150k-200k? I suppose this might be a better question for the psychiatry forum, but how feasible is it to take 1-2 years off after med school before starting to work?

 

[UnclePhil]

So with this you are implying that a psychiatrist working 45 hrs a week makes 150k-200k?

This is dependent on many things. Whether you are academic or private practice. What your practice is like. What your practice's pay structure is like. Where you practice. What exactly are you trying to do in the field of psychiatry?

I suppose this might be a better question for the psychiatry forum, but how feasible is it to take 1-2 years off after med school before starting to work?

You mean taking years off between medical school and residency? People take time off of medical school all the time, but depending on the circumstances, it can hurt your residency prospects, especially if you do it after graduation as you are no longer affiliated with a medical school when you apply for the match. It might be better to ask this on the resident's forum, they would know this better than a med student and a bunch of premeds.

And don't think that you can go through medical school, take 2 years off and then come out and work 45 hours a week and make big bucks. And then keep in mind, that the hours during your residency years (4 years) will be far more, and your salary will be about 1/3 of that salary that you are quoting. You will be working about 60-80 hours a week during residency depending on the service that you are on, probably more than that during your intern year, and less during your senior year.

 

[StraddleHand]

To the OP, you said you were considering pre med and psychiatry. Before you decide on if you can hold off starting a family until your early 30's and manage a family on a physician's lifestyle, I think you need to decide if medicine is what you really want. If you decide that there is no other career you could see yourself in, then I think the old saying, "Where there's a will there's a way" comes into play. You can surely find a specialty that will work well with raising a family.

Have you done some shadowing? Have you shadowed younger doctors who are in the midst of raising a family? These doctors are often very helpful in painting a realistic picture of what life will be like as physician/parent as opposed to a lot of us on here who aren't physicians and don't have children.

Good luck!

 

[priorities2]

Thanks for your feedback, everyone! It is really helpful. I am actually deciding between pursing a Psych NP degree and going for med school. I've been informationally interviewing some psych nurses which has helped me understand how much I am absolutely fascinated by that field and job (I was previously planning on school psychology), which has made me think that I might be interested in being a psych doctor. But nursing does seem like a more family-friendly career option according to most sources. At the same time, when I look up job postings, it seems like there is wide variation in call/hours for both NP and psychiatrist positions. I feel that either way would probably suit me well and you're right that I should speak to psychiatrists themselves.

And don't think that you can go through medical school, take 2 years off and then come out and work 45 hours a week and make big bucks.

^That is what I meant by my question. I was asking if it would be possible to complete residency, take 2 years off, then enter the workforce. If I "shouldn't expect to make big bucks" by taking that route, does that mean that I would take a major starting pay cut by taking those two years off? If so, why? Or are you just saying that all starting psychiatrists make less?

 

[Mountaineer12]

I strongly disagree with this. Raising a family is not like studying for a test - the amount of time spent interacting with your children does matter. It's not like a "supermom" can get all of her parenting done in 1 hour/day if she's "efficient." 🙂

Yeah, I agree, but I've also been around a lot of awful stay at home moms so I guess what I was trying to say was just because you spend a lot of time with your kids doesn't mean you're a good mom and just because work doesn't mean you're a bad mom.

 

[LizzyM]

It is very unusual to see a physician take 2 years off.... if you borrowed for med school, it is likely that you will need to make loan payments during that time which may be difficult without a (second) income in your household. Furthermore, your skills are likely to become rusty through disuse and you are likely to lose important networking contacts and continuing education opportunities unless you remain active in professional organizations, etc.

While it is still relatively easy for a psychiatrist to have a private, solo practice (compared to other specialites), that does require that one attract and keep patients. It takes time to build up that referral base and being out of the workforce for 2 years will not help matters. It is also rather peculiar to see a two year gap in a resume at this level and that will require explaining.

 

[Purple2012]

I can't even see myself working in the future with my uterus let alone kids.

 

[plumazul]

Okay, sorry if this post is sexist, as it could also apply to guys. But as a female somewhat considering premed for psychiatry, I am a little bit concerned about the fact that I would be done with residency at age 30 and wouldn't start working as an actual psychiatrist until 31. That's the exact age where I would want to start having kids. I wouldn't mind taking a couple years off after med school to have kids and then going back to work, but don't psychiatrists work like 45 hours a week? It seems like it would be difficult to have such young kids and working full time as a psychiatrist. Especially after having taken 1-2 years off after med school. Thoughts on this issue? Am I overestimating how hard it would be?

Raising children is a team sport. If you want a family, make sure your mate understands his/her role in this effort.

 

[JustMeditate]

And don't think that you can go through medical school, take 2 years off and then come out and work 45 hours a week and make big bucks.

Agreed. No one makes $150K-$200K right out of the gate. It's a salary you earn after you've established yourself as a solo practice, or as part of an existing practice/hospital. If you decide to go solo, there won't be $150K's worth of patients lined up at your front door the day you open for business. You have to garner a reputation in the local community and make connections with primary care doctors in the area, for referrals, before you'll make good money. And if you decide to work as part of a team, they'll require that you gain some experience with their particular practice, and ascertain your reliability, before they'll up the salary.

Generally speaking, it is a horrible idea to take two years off after residency. To be good at medicine, you need to invest in life long learning, and taking two whole years off when you are still just an infant in the world of medicine is unwise. And how will you pay off $200K in loans and the accumulating interest during these gap years? You'll lose valuable connections, get rusty in your practice, and generate a two year resume gap that will be hard to explain with, "Oh, I just wanted kids." Most doctors have kids while they are working and take a few months off, not a few years.

Psychiatry is a cushy, high paying job with little to no call, free weekends and evenings, and low hours. You can be a mom and work simultaneously. I want kids, too, and I'll also be waiting until after residency, but I realize that day care is just an unfortunate route I'll have to take.

 

[priorities2]

Agreed. No one makes $150K-$200K right out of the gate. It's a salary you earn after you've established yourself as a solo practice, or as part of an existing practice/hospital. If you decide to go solo, there won't be $150K's worth of patients lined up at your front door the day you open for business. You have to garner a reputation in the local community and make connections with primary care doctors in the area, for referrals, before you'll make good money. And if you decide to work as part of a team, they'll require that you gain some experience with their particular practice, and ascertain your reliability, before they'll up the salary.

Generally speaking, it is a horrible idea to take two years off after residency. To be good at medicine, you need to invest in life long learning, and taking two whole years off when you are still just an infant in the world of medicine is unwise. And how will you pay off $200K in loans and the accumulating interest during these gap years? You'll lose valuable connections, get rusty in your practice, and generate a two year resume gap that will be hard to explain with, "Oh, I just wanted kids." Most doctors have kids while they are working and take a few months off, not a few years.

Psychiatry is a cushy, high paying job with little to no call, free weekends and evenings, and low hours. You can be a mom and work simultaneously. I want kids, too, and I'll also be waiting until after residency, but I realize that day care is just an unfortunate route I'll have to take.

Thank you for this explanation! I was actually under the impression that 150k is the expected starting salary, so this clarifies a lot. I have to look closely at my life goals and speak with more people in the field, but it seems like the financial payoff vs. time investment, in my case, goes more in the favor of taking the Psych NP route. I could be an NP by 23 and get 8 years of salary (70k-130k.. probably on the low end for those first 4-5 years) before having kids, take a little time off, then go back. I'd have less autonomy than I would as a psychiatrist but also shorter hours and more flexibility. Career planning is so full of trade-offs, and I guess everyone just needs to make their best guess at what will be right for them =/ I really appreciate your insight everyone!

 

[LizzyM]

Okay, sorry if this post is sexist, as it could also apply to guys. But as a female somewhat considering premed for psychiatry, I am a little bit concerned about the fact that I would be done with residency at age 30 and wouldn't start working as an actual psychiatrist until 31. That's the exact age where I would want to start having kids. I wouldn't mind taking a couple years off after med school to have kids and then going back to work, but don't psychiatrists work like 45 hours a week? It seems like it would be difficult to have such young kids and working full time as a psychiatrist. Especially after having taken 1-2 years off after med school. Thoughts on this issue? Am I overestimating how hard it would be?

If you have a willing partner of the opposite sex, having kids on a time table can work out with ease, or not. It is hard to know whether things will work out for you in 5+ years in that regard. If you don't have a partner of the opposite sex, then the process can be expensive and much more difficult and can take months/years.

Planning your life around things that you hope to have happen in the future can be dicey. Would you be happy as a NP if, the way life turns out, you don't have kids?

 

[sinombre]

Planning your life around things that you hope to have happen in the future can be dicey. Would you be happy as a NP if, the way life turns out, you don't have kids?

^ great question.

 

[priorities2]

If you have a willing partner of the opposite sex, having kids on a time table can work out with ease, or not. It is hard to know whether things will work out for you in 5+ years in that regard. If you don't have a partner of the opposite sex, then the process can be expensive and much more difficult and can take months/years.

Planning your life around things that you hope to have happen in the future can be dicey. Would you be happy as a NP if, the way life turns out, you don't have kids?

I agree that that's a really good question. I think the same could apply to really most things... at this point, how do I know I'll even be capable of getting a high enough grade in physics or ochem to get into medical school? Maybe that's a bit more controllable than finding a mate and having kids, but a lot of people's goals are contingent on luck and timing.

 

[LizzyM]

I agree that that's a really good question. I think the same could apply to really most things... at this point, how do I know I'll even be capable of getting a high enough grade in physics or ochem to get into medical school? Maybe that's a bit more controllable than finding a mate and having kids, but a lot of people's goals are contingent on luck and timing.

Saying, I plan to study hard and do well enough in pre-med courses to get into med school is one thing and it has nothing to do with timing or luck and more to do with aptitude and effort... saying "that's the exact age where (sic) I would want to start having kids" is planning too far ahead for things that can't be foreseen and are only partially under your control.

 

[seeingstars]

When you have young children, you WANT to be away from them for at least 45 hours a week. Trust me, kids are dicks.
Also, don't have kids with a partner who isn't willing to do at the very least 50% of the work, because, as I previously mentioned: kids are dicks.

 

[JustMeditate]

Trust me, kids are dicks.

 

[PreMedOrDead]

saying "that's the exact age where (sic) I would want to start having kids" is planning too far ahead for things that can't be foreseen and are only partially under your control.

 

[ShenanigansMD]

This can apply to males as well, although females do have to deal with pregnancy.

 

[seeingstars]

Yes, that's true, characters from Teen Mom are really as responsible as it gets when it comes to reproductive health.

 

[PreMedOrDead]

This can apply to males as well, although females do have to deal with pregnancy.

Exactly what I was thinking, actually.

I initially came to this thread thinking 'What could possibly only apply to female applicants, feminine hygiene products?'

I pretty much had to click the link.

Yes, that's true, characters from Teen Mom are really as responsible as it gets when it comes to reproductive health.

Yup, that's exactly what that show's going for. Preaching sexual responsibility from well-educated examples for impressionable tweens...

 

[Praefectus]

Trust me, kids are dicks.

 

[HurricaneKatt]

I strongly disagree with this. Raising a family is not like studying for a test - the amount of time spent interacting with your children does matter. It's not like a "supermom" can get all of her parenting done in 1 hour/day if she's "efficient." 🙂

+1 👍 Quantity AND Quality matter!

 

[Geekchick921]

When you have young children, you WANT to be away from them for at least 45 hours a week. Trust me, kids are dicks.
Also, don't have kids with a partner who isn't willing to do at the very least 50% of the work, because, as I previously mentioned: kids are dicks.

No disagreement here. My older kid is 3 1/2 and she's either an angel or a total butthole.

 

[NightGod]

When you have young children, you WANT to be away from them for at least 45 hours a week. Trust me, kids are dicks.
Also, don't have kids with a partner who isn't willing to do at the very least 50% of the work, because, as I previously mentioned: kids are dicks.

Meh. Some kids are dicks. I'd maybe even go so far as to say a lot are. Some rock pretty hard though. Good parenting has a lot to do with it, though it's not all there is to it.s

 

[angldrps]

Okay, sorry if this post is sexist, as it could also apply to guys. But as a female somewhat considering premed for psychiatry, I am a little bit concerned about the fact that I would be done with residency at age 30 and wouldn't start working as an actual psychiatrist until 31. That's the exact age where I would want to start having kids. I wouldn't mind taking a couple years off after med school to have kids and then going back to work, but don't psychiatrists work like 45 hours a week? It seems like it would be difficult to have such young kids and working full time as a psychiatrist. Especially after having taken 1-2 years off after med school. Thoughts on this issue? Am I overestimating how hard it would be?

I have many similar concerns as the OP, but at this point in my life, my desire to become a physician trumps my desire for wanting to become a mother. Plus, with so many things to worry about , Its hard to find the time to worry about this.

 

[priorities2]

I have many similar concerns as the OP, but at this point in my life, my desire to become a physician trumps my desire for wanting to become a mother. Plus, with so many things to worry about , Its hard to find the time to worry about this.

I think it ultimately comes down to the old 'can you see yourself being anything but a doctor?' question. I can absolutely see myself being a psychiatric nurse practitioner but maybe that will change after having taken Chem 1 and Bio 1... maybe I'll just get too awesome of grades to not go for med school. 🙄 We'll see. Thankfully the initial prereqs for both nursing and med are more or less the same.

 

[UnclePhil]

Nursing and medicine are two different fields that play completely different roles in patient care. Just because they both work with patients does not make them the same thing. Make sure you know what each does.

What kind of career are you looking at in psychiatry?

 

[priorities2]

Nursing and medicine are two different fields that play completely different roles in patient care. Just because they both work with patients does not make them the same thing. Make sure you know what each does.

What kind of career are you looking at in psychiatry?

I'd like to work in an outpatient setting, though I would be willing to work in inpatient to get the experience. I'd like to work with patients through diagnosing, medication management, and therapy. I might be interested in a solo practice, which would limit the number of states I could work in if I took the psych NP route. I'm not very interested in performing ECT, which I know is one thing that psychiatrists can do but psych NP's cannot. I would rank my interests as (1) behavioral/cognitive therapy, (2) addiction, (3) pharmacotherapy, (4) comorbidity with non-mental illnesses.

I tried to get a sense of the actual difference in job description/duties between Psych NPs and psychiatrists, and it seems that in hospital settings NPs have more patient contact while psychiatrists handle difficult issues that come up and deal with the more complex cases. In private practice, it seems that independent NPs often pay psychiatrists monthly for consulting but otherwise have the same job as a psychiatrist (except that they might refer out the really biologically co-morbid cases). Other than that, it seems like the differential between psychiatrists and psych NPs depends on the state laws and hospital policies. So becoming a psychiatrist is a safer bet to independence, but both routes could end in a lot of autonomy and a good pay check.

 

[Geebeejay]

I know plenty of physicians (mostly EM) who have kids when they are fresh out of residency....you need to choose what kind of setting you work in carefully though. Teaching hospitals/emergency psych wards will be more demanding but will have more opportunities and challenges then let's say a rural area hospital, or a walk in clinic. (sorry don't know much about psych specifically, except that their hours seem to be longer generally).

 

[HoltMD]

VS

 

[wolfie77]

There are a million threads on raising children/ having a family in medicine. Use the search function next time please.

Have you ever considered law enforcement instead of medicine?

 

[Morsetlis]

No disagreement here. My older kid is 3 1/2 and she's either an angel or a total butthole.

Pretty much the American condition.

 

[sayamd]

Hello! I'm a girl too. And I'm married =)

I don't see any problem unless you're planning to become a single mother.
Can't your husband/partner help with raising a child?
There are plenty of childcare services out there.