Question for USC dental students or other expensive schools

[dentalman85]

Looking at estimated COA, they're basically saying we'll be in debt 450k+.

Realistically speaking, have any of you out there begun payment or thought the process of repayment through?

I'm seriously considering taking a year off after a wake up call today. I realized just how truly long 450k+ will take to pay off, in addition to my undergraduate loan and how much that amount really is.

Any insight or help? Should I take a year off? I've only paid the deposit so I can withdraw without too much loss but can 450k+ really be paid back? I don't want to live like a hermit or anything haha.

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[browncrack]

There are options to pay this off but most people don't want to do what is required. HPSP, income contingent repayment, public health for 25 years with balloon forgiveness, home meth lab. I suggest moving to a state with a dental school and applying as a resident after living there for a year. $450 K is simply ridiculous, plus cost of attendance will rise while you are in school so you will likely finish above the target.

 

[cmcner]

There are options to pay this off but most people don't want to do what is required. HPSP, income contingent repayment, public health for 25 years with balloon forgiveness, home meth lab. I suggest moving to a state with a dental school and applying as a resident after living there for a year. $450 K is simply ridiculous, plus cost of attendance will rise while you are in school so you will likely finish above the target.

So lets assume that you move to another state and wait a year. Right off the bat you lose one year's salary which is easily $120,000 if you say you lose your first year's salary, and at least $220,000 if you say you lose your last year's salary. There is never anything close to a guarantee that you will get into your state school and say you get into your cheapest private or out of state back up you will pay at least $300,000 + the lost year of salary is $420,000 in total opportunity cost. Plus the fact that if you reject your offer this year you may never get another offer from another school, or even the same school again and may lose out on your dream job and be forever bitter.

My suggestion look into:
1. income based repayment which you pay 15% of your income for 25 years max towards your loans and then get the rest forgiven which counts as taxable income
2. Public service loan forgiveness with IBR, in which you work for a non-profit or govt agency for 10 years while making ibr payments and all remaining loans are forgiven tax free
3. Armed forces (4 years for 4 years)
4. Moving to a high income state
5. Specializing where your income will be at least $250,000 per year in most fields (if not change states)

Leaving would be a very poor decision if you didn't consider all of the options and consequences of that very very large decision. Those thoughts are why I didn't give up my offer last year, it still seems like the right call now.

 

[Munchy]

USC is probably the most expensive dental school out there. There are other private schools that cost much less than that.

 

[dentalman85]

Thanks for all the responses! Anybody else?

I just can't decide so I'm leaving it up to SDN.
Feel free to vote on my poll.


http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=840859

 

[jay47]

So lets assume that you move to another state and wait a year. Right off the bat you lose one year's salary which is easily $120,000 if you say you lose your first year's salary, and at least $220,000 if you say you lose your last year's salary. There is never anything close to a guarantee that you will get into your state school and say you get into your cheapest private or out of state back up you will pay at least $300,000 + the lost year of salary is $420,000 in total opportunity cost. Plus the fact that if you reject your offer this year you may never get another offer from another school, or even the same school again and may lose out on your dream job and be forever bitter.

My suggestion look into:
1. income based repayment which you pay 15% of your income for 25 years max towards your loans and then get the rest forgiven which counts as taxable income
2. Public service loan forgiveness with IBR, in which you work for a non-profit or govt agency for 10 years while making ibr payments and all remaining loans are forgiven tax free
3. Armed forces (4 years for 4 years)
4. Moving to a high income state
5. Specializing where your income will be at least $250,000 per year in most fields (if not change states)

Leaving would be a very poor decision if you didn't consider all of the options and consequences of that very very large decision. Those thoughts are why I didn't give up my offer last year, it still seems like the right call now.

Don't forget though that nothing is guaranteed. Do you have personal experience with the job market in the SOCAL area? I have heard from quite a few people that it is horrible for dentists there, extremely oversaturated. This WILL affect how much you make your first few years out.
1. You have no experience. You have no bargaining power for jobs, you have no (or few) connections or family in the business and worst of all, you don't have a patient base to build your practice on. This does not generally bode well for first year dentists.
2. What does he have guaranteed at this point? Nothing really except a spot in the dental school. But you do have guaranteed a HUGE monkey of a loan on your back. USC is just plain too expensive. I'm sure that the school is fine, but that is WAY too much money to be paying to go to school. It's almost half a million dollars. The government should not allow you to take out loans for almost a half million dollars. I'm going to call it right now- the student loan bubble will burst in the next 5 years and then tuition will go back down. Current levels of educational costs vs job market outlooks are just NOT SUSTAINABLE, even for dentists.

Have you looked at repayment for a loan that size!!!!???? Go run the numbers; if you pay that puppy back over 20 years at 6.8, your loan repayment will be around $4500 a month ($42,000 a year!!!!) $42,000 a year for 20 years. I'll go ahead and say that again- buy yourself a corvette every year for twenty years with the money you spent to go to school!!!

And don't forget uncle sam is going to take his cut too. You may net $150,000 in earnings, but you're only going to see $120,000 of that (filing jointly; http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm).

Now subtract your student loans and you're left at $78,000. What does it cost to be a dentist you ask? Well tack on professional insurance, disability insurance, life insurance (because you can't afford NOT to live with that big ass loan on your back), and just go ahead and take away about another $5000 a year. What about life's other expenses? Car insurance, home insurance, hell, maybe even a mortgage (but I doubt anyone could afford to buy a house in SOCAL now even in the dumps housing market) and you've got a net-take-home-out-the-door-money-at-your-fingertips value probably not much more than what you may be bringing home now.

Yes, the way you spin the numbers, it makes it sound like not going would be an unwise decision, but I think you should look more closely.

The OP has good stats (3.7, 21 AA) and already got into 3 other schools but didn't go because of living reasons, so I think his chances of getting into another school would be excellent.

And on a side note, I wouldn't rely upon the likes of the SDN population to let you decide to take out a loan for $400K- most of us (not me of course) are not even in dental school yet (the above poster is of course), but the ultimate decision is up to you. If you run the numbers, I think you would agree that going to another school at a mu👍ch more reasonable cost of around $200,000 or less would be ideal. Go to the cheapest school you can get into in the list in my signature below. See page 20.

 

[ortho lurker]

Have you looked at repayment for a loan that size!!!!???? Go run the numbers; if you pay that puppy back over 20 years at 6.8, your loan repayment will be around $4500 a month ($42,000 a year!!!!) $42,000 a year for 20 years. I'll go ahead and say that again- buy yourself a corvette every year for twenty years with the money you spent to go to school!!!

And don't forget uncle sam is going to take his cut too. You may net $150,000 in earnings, but you're only going to see $120,000 of that (filing jointly; http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm).

Now subtract your student loans and you're left at $78,000. What does it cost to be a dentist you ask? Well tack on professional insurance, disability insurance, life insurance (because you can't afford NOT to live with that big ass loan on your back), and just go ahead and take away about another $5000 a year. What about life's other expenses? Car insurance, home insurance, hell, maybe even a mortgage (but I doubt anyone could afford to buy a house in SOCAL now even in the dumps housing market) and you've got a net-take-home-out-the-door-money-at-your-fingertips value probably not much more than what you may be bringing home now.

Don't forget to add health insurance and retirement planning as added expenses if you don't have a spouse who has employer-backed benefits. Also, if you are an associate dentist then you will most likely be subject to the self-employment tax (higher taxes) as an independent contractor (it's pretty rare to be paid as an employee unless you work for a chain). It seems like the only way to make it as a fresh grad in So Cal is to work at one of these mills full-time or to run far, far away from here!

 

[Daurang]

From Investors Business Daily:

For years, government has assumed it's a good thing to go to college. College graduates tend to earn more money than non-college graduates. Politicians of both parties have called for giving everybody a chance to go to college, just as they called for giving everybody a chance to buy a home. So government has been subsidizing higher education with low-interest college loans, Pell grants and cheap tuitions at state colleges and universities.

The predictable result is that higher education costs have risen much faster than inflation, much faster than personal incomes, much faster than the economy over the past 40 years.

Moreover, you can't get out of paying off those college loans, even by going through bankruptcy. At least with a home mortgage, you can walk away and let the bank foreclose and not owe any more money.


A true bubble is when something is overvalued and intensely believed. Education may still be the only thing people still believe in in the United States. But the combination of rising costs and dubious quality may be undermining that belief.

For what have institutions of higher learning done with their vast increases in revenues? The answer in all too many cases is administrative bloat.

 

[7 Iron]

From Investors Business Daily:

For years, government has assumed it's a good thing to go to college. College graduates tend to earn more money than non-college graduates. Politicians of both parties have called for giving everybody a chance to go to college, just as they called for giving everybody a chance to buy a home. So government has been subsidizing higher education with low-interest college loans, Pell grants and cheap tuitions at state colleges and universities.

The predictable result is that higher education costs have risen much faster than inflation, much faster than personal incomes, much faster than the economy over the past 40 years.

Moreover, you can't get out of paying off those college loans, even by going through bankruptcy. At least with a home mortgage, you can walk away and let the bank foreclose and not owe any more money.


A true bubble is when something is overvalued and intensely believed. Education may still be the only thing people still believe in in the United States. But the combination of rising costs and dubious quality may be undermining that belief.

For what have institutions of higher learning done with their vast increases in revenues? The answer in all too many cases is administrative bloat.

If only the government got out of the student loan business, the bubble would burst and tuition prices would HAVE to go down. It's really upsetting to see how bad things get messed up when the government gets involved, instead of letting the market dictate the prices. Private banks would never give a fresh college graduate a $400k loan without some serious collateral.

 

[jay47]

If only the government got out of the student loan business, the bubble would burst and tuition prices would HAVE to go down. It's really upsetting to see how bad things get messed up when the government gets involved, instead of letting the market dictate the prices. Private banks would never give a fresh college graduate a $400k loan without some serious collateral.

I couldn't agree more. If I went right now to get a loan for $400K, bankers would scoff at me. But for some reason, because I am "going to school" I would be able to get it. Yes, I am taking out student loans right now for school because I don't have other options, but the whole point is that I wouldn't have to take out $120,000 if the market conditions didn't create a situation with unlimited supply (govt. loans) and a high demand product (degree).

Why do you think for profit schools like University of Phoenix, Brooks College, Kapella, ITT, Westwood, Everest, etc... have popped up all over the place? Because they can charge whatever they want for a college degree because the government will back it. It creates a market where it's a lose lose situation for them. You don't even have to have a reputable program. More than ever, it's important to make sure that the "education" you are getting from whatever school you attend is going to be worth the price you are paying for it. Getting your degree in liberal arts for $100K just isn't sustainable.

What's even worse is that some dentists are doing the same thing to programs like medicaid. I read about one dentist "seeing" 300 patients a day in his office for medicaid. I understand you have to work faster to take medicaid, and you do provide a valuable service at a lower cost, but my gosh, 300 patients a day?
8 hrs X 60 min/hr= 480 minutes day/300 ppl= 1.6 minutes= 1 minute and 36 seconds per person. Maybe I'm not keen on the details, and maybe, just maybe, this person was only doing treatment planning, but it just sounds fishy to me. I know that's not the type of practice I would like to run.

 

[Noble6]

While I think there are ways to pay it back, I agree 100% with a number of the above posters. At best, that much student loan debt backs you into a corner (military, NHSC, etc). Given that one of the things I love about dentistry is the autonomy it affords me, personally, I'd have a problem with that.

I'm not sure what you should do, but I think it's a good thing that you are actively looking and thinking about this decision and what all that debt REALLY means.

 

[dentalman85]

So at this point, I will withdraw from USC after I explore some repayment venues.

I'll try to see if I have a high chance at NHSC, or the military.
If not, and 400K is the only way, I'm going to withdraw before August.

A side question, what do you guys think of 300K? Make a difference?
~25000 per year of the loan money is given for room and board/transportation/personal/misc.

I figure if I work, maybe live really frugally and scrounge, maybe borrow some money from my parents, it may work?

Not sure. What do you guys think? Would 300K change some of your minds about going to USC?

 

[ramseszerg]

.........nuked

 

[Munchy]

like someone said above, you are losing out on 100k income by not enrolling this year. By your standards, all the students who are attending USC this year without scholarship have no future. For some reason, I doubt that.

 

[jay47]

like someone said above, you are losing out on 100k income by not enrolling this year. By your standards, all the students who are attending USC this year without scholarship have no future. For some reason, I doubt that.

We didn't say they wouldn't have a future, we said that they would have a guaranteed $400K loan on their back for 10-20 years. Have you ever paid back $55,000 a year on a loan for 10 years?

If you go the 10 year route on a $400K loan, then you are paying back $55,000 a year, at $4,600 a month.
What's the average salary for a new dentist?
~$500 a day?
$4,600/$500= 9.2 days
That means the first 2 weeks of EVERY MONTH FOR ~10 years (a little less if you account for increasing income) you are working to pay off your student loans and you aren't taking that home.

I don't think you guys realize that dentists still work on a weekly basis. They don't get paid this huge wad of cash before they start working every month. Just because you are making a $100,00)+ a year doesn't mean that you are taking home $100,000 a year. Uncle sam will still get his cut, and so will everyone else. That means that some of that money has to go to bills, the wife, food, insurance, fees, whatever else you have, and therefore you HAVE to have a high cash FLOW to be able to pay back that loan. And yes, you HAVE to pay back the loan. It is not forgivable, it does not go away, and you can NEVER get rid of it.

If you decide to stretch it out of 20 years, then that means you will essentially be paying $732,000 to have gone to school for 4 years. That is ridiculous if you ask me. Hey, it's not my life though, I can only let you know what I think.

 

[7 Iron]

we didn't say they wouldn't have a future, we said that they would have a guaranteed $400k loan on their back for 10-20 years. Have you ever paid back $55,000 a year on a loan for 10 years?

If you go the 10 year route on a $400k loan, then you are paying back $55,000 a year, at $4,600 a month.
What's the average salary for a new dentist?
~$500 a day?
$4,600/$500= 9.2 days
that means the first 2 weeks of every month for ~10 years (a little less if you account for increasing income) you are working to pay off your student loans and you aren't taking that home.

I don't think you guys realize that dentists still work on a weekly basis. They don't get paid this huge wad of cash before they start working every month. Just because you are making a $100,00)+ a year doesn't mean that you are taking home $100,000 a year. Uncle sam will still get his cut, and so will everyone else. That means that some of that money has to go to bills, the wife, food, insurance, fees, whatever else you have, and therefore you have to have a high cash flow to be able to pay back that loan. And yes, you have to pay back the loan. It is not forgivable, it does not go away, and you can never get rid of it.

If you decide to stretch it out of 20 years, then that means you will essentially be paying $732,000 to have gone to school for 4 years. That is ridiculous if you ask me. Hey, it's not my life though, i can only let you know what i think.

+1

 

[argentrans37]

So lets assume that you move to another state and wait a year. Right off the bat you lose one year's salary which is easily $120,000 if you say you lose your first year's salary, and at least $220,000 if you say you lose your last year's salary. There is never anything close to a guarantee that you will get into your state school and say you get into your cheapest private or out of state back up you will pay at least $300,000 + the lost year of salary is $420,000 in total opportunity cost. Plus the fact that if you reject your offer this year you may never get another offer from another school, or even the same school again and may lose out on your dream job and be forever bitter.

My suggestion look into:
1. income based repayment which you pay 15% of your income for 25 years max towards your loans and then get the rest forgiven which counts as taxable income
2. Public service loan forgiveness with IBR, in which you work for a non-profit or govt agency for 10 years while making ibr payments and all remaining loans are forgiven tax free
3. Armed forces (4 years for 4 years)
4. Moving to a high income state
5. Specializing where your income will be at least $250,000 per year in most fields (if not change states)

Leaving would be a very poor decision if you didn't consider all of the options and consequences of that very very large decision. Those thoughts are why I didn't give up my offer last year, it still seems like the right call now.

OP, please do not listen to advice like this.

First of all, you aren't necessarily "losing out" on a yearly salary of $120,000. Sure, you might be fortunate and make that much money in your first year out of DS, but keep in mind that most/all of that money will go to repaying student loans, living expenses, taxes, insurance, etc. It's not as if graduating a year earlier will magically put $120,000 in your bank account. I guarantee that isn't going to happen.

Loan forgiveness sounds fine and well, but you may be stuck for 10 years in a job you hate that does not pay very well. In essence, you are a slave in this situation.

Armed forces scholarships sound fine and well, but again, you may be stuck in a less-than-desirable working situation, and even potentially a dangerous situation (war zones are not friendly places, typically, even for doctors). Also, your salary will not be anything special while in the armed forces. Don't forget, if you meet someone in the next 4 years (i.e. significant other) that is a game-changer, it won't matter to the U.S. government.

 

[Bereno]

OP, please do not listen to advice like this.

First of all, you aren't necessarily "losing out" on a yearly salary of $120,000. Sure, you might be fortunate and make that much money in your first year out of DS, but keep in mind that most/all of that money will go to repaying student loans, living expenses, taxes, insurance, etc. It's not as if graduating a year earlier will magically put $120,000 in your bank account. I guarantee that isn't going to happen.

Loan forgiveness sounds fine and well, but you may be stuck for 10 years in a job you hate that does not pay very well. In essence, you are a slave in this situation.

Armed forces scholarships sound fine and well, but again, you may be stuck in a less-than-desirable working situation, and even potentially a dangerous situation (war zones are not friendly places, typically, even for doctors). Also, your salary will not be anything special while in the armed forces. Don't forget, if you meet someone in the next 4 years (i.e. significant other) that is a game-changer, it won't matter to the U.S. government.

Well... he actually is. If he is working one year sooner than he would be otherwise, then yes he is losing out on that income. I dont see how you can disagree with that. lol

 

[Munchy]

may not be as high as 120k, but you can't deny the fact that he is losing out on income he could have made.

 

[SoulPower]

may not be as high as 120k, but you can't deny the fact that he is losing out on income he could have made.

He is losing out on his last year of work's income, not his first.

 

[cmcner]

So lets assume that you move to another state and wait a year. Right off the bat you lose one year's salary which is easily $120,000 if you say you lose your first year's salary, and at least $220,000 if you say you lose your last year's salary. There is never anything close to a guarantee that you will get into your state school and say you get into your cheapest private or out of state back up you will pay at least $300,000 + the lost year of salary is $420,000 in total opportunity cost. Plus the fact that if you reject your offer this year you may never get another offer from another school, or even the same school again and may lose out on your dream job and be forever bitter.

My suggestion look into:
1. income based repayment which you pay 15% of your income for 25 years max towards your loans and then get the rest forgiven which counts as taxable income
2. Public service loan forgiveness with IBR, in which you work for a non-profit or govt agency for 10 years while making ibr payments and all remaining loans are forgiven tax free
3. Armed forces (4 years for 4 years)
4. Moving to a high income state
5. Specializing where your income will be at least $250,000 per year in most fields (if not change states)

Leaving would be a very poor decision if you didn't consider all of the options and consequences of that very very large decision. Those thoughts are why I didn't give up my offer last year, it still seems like the right call now.

Alright OP I had to quote myself so that you could look at what I had to say again. I think that this thread is full of pretty poor advice. You will be sitting around with a year to fill if you spit on your acceptance. Unlike most schools, USC actually gives you a huge buffer space in living expenses which makes their cost of attendance go up. They allow you $26,000 per year for living expenses and transportation. If you have roommates you can find places for $600-700 per month so rent on the low end is $7200 per year. Do you really need anything close to the other $18,000 per year, no you don't. If you are frugal you could reasonably not use $15k of that $26K per year ($12k the last year) and save 15k*3+12k = $57,000.

So at a projected cost of $391,252 according to USC, it's very realistic to get it down to $334,252 if you live frugally. When your number is $330k how much in savings are you really going to have going anywhere else except for your own state school? Is it really worth a year of your career?

Creighton for example is one of the cheapest private dental schools in the country and their estimated cost of attendance is $333,913. As an out of state student at most state schools you won't do much better financially, and likely worse.

So before you waste another year of your life clicking refresh on aadsas 10,000 times a day and paying for flights and hotels to interviews read both of my posts very well, realize that I used logic and thought and that most of the other posters just said what was on the top of their heads.

Sources:
http://www.creighton.edu/fileadmin/user/FinancialAid/Docs/Dental1011.pdf

http://dentistry.usc.edu/doctoral.aspx?id=912

 

[jay47]

Alright OP I had to quote myself so that you could look at what I had to say again. I think that this thread is full of pretty poor advice. You will be sitting around with a year to fill if you spit on your acceptance. Unlike most schools, USC actually gives you a huge buffer space in living expenses which makes their cost of attendance go up. They allow you $26,000 per year for living expenses and transportation. If you have roommates you can find places for $600-700 per month so rent on the low end is $7200 per year. Do you really need anything close to the other $18,000 per year, no you don't. If you are frugal you could reasonably not use $15k of that $26K per year ($12k the last year) and save 15k*3+12k = $57,000.

So at a projected cost of $391,252 according to USC, it's very realistic to get it down to $334,252 if you live frugally. When your number is $330k how much in savings are you really going to have going anywhere else except for your own state school? Is it really worth a year of your career?

Creighton for example is one of the cheapest private dental schools in the country and their estimated cost of attendance is $333,913. As an out of state student at most state schools you won't do much better financially, and likely worse.

So before you waste another year of your life clicking refresh on aadsas 10,000 times a day and paying for flights and hotels to interviews read both of my posts very well, realize that I used logic and thought and that most of the other posters just said what was on the top of their heads.

Sources:
http://www.creighton.edu/fileadmin/user/FinancialAid/Docs/Dental1011.pdf

http://dentistry.usc.edu/doctoral.aspx?id=912

Well, when you put it that way, $333,000 is quite a bit more manageable, and quite a bit less than the $450,000 that I was expecting him to come out with after 4 years. I know that the other schools in Cali are expensive too, so putting some hard numbers to the grind, as I had suggested to the OP anyways, makes a little more sense. Your housing costs with roommates does seem a little on the low end to me, as we could expect to pay that much or more even in Houston, and I thought we had cheap housing costs comparatively. Although do take into account the fact that tuition is rising (which would increase cost, BUT it would also compel you to enter as soon as possible).

I don't know what the living costs in SOCAL are, but you make them sound much more reasonable than I had expected (I haven't lived there). Still, this much debt does make it a little more difficult to pursue AEGD/GPR programs if you are interested in them because you'll be using practically all of your stipend to pay student loans back. And I still stand firm by the statement that it isn't always so easy to get that nice high paying job right out of school like many of us think it may be. Either way, just be sure to do some networking and that's the best way to find you a good job.

 

[superspike]

I also got into Western, but am deferring my admission for a year to decide if it is financially viable for me to go.

If I were you, I would write to the school and use your reasons to defer for 1 year. This is a much more probable option than trying to transfer when you are already in school (which is prob not going to happen) then you are stuck at USC

Make sure you are sure of stepping in with both feet!

 

[Tommy43087]

I also got into Western, but am deferring my admission for a year to decide if it is financially viable for me to go.

If I were you, I would write to the school and use your reasons to defer for 1 year. This is a much more probable option than trying to transfer when you are already in school (which is prob not going to happen) then you are stuck at USC

Make sure you are sure of stepping in with both feet!

Didn't really read the whole thread but to defer a year is a waste of money that can be made your first year out and time.

The debt at USC is one of the biggest flaws (among many others) and I knew this coming in when I picked USC over 7 other schools. But unless you're having doubts about dentistry itself I think your better off not losing out on a year of work and experience (but that's all my opinion).

 

[Lethstang]

i would mos def go if you got in

 

[wisdomteeth]

You should not go to any dental school cost more than 200k, period.

 

[mr24]

You should not go to any dental school cost more than 200k, period.

Really?? that seems a little extreme. you graduated about 5 years ago with 220k and you already have it paid down to 107k. has it really been that unbearable? im going to graduate with about 230k in debt and i feel really lucky.

why do you put the cut off at 200K? just curious. i could understand as low as 300k but not 200k.

 

[wisdomteeth]

Really?? that seems a little extreme. you graduated about 5 years ago with 220k and you already have it paid down to 107k. has it really been that unbearable? im going to graduate with about 230k in debt and i feel really lucky.

why do you put the cut off at 200K? just curious. i could understand as low as 300k but not 200k.

If there are schools out there cost much less than 200k or around 200k, why should you spend more? You are getting the same license. I didn't tell you how I paid off half of my debt in five years, I basically was living off my hubby, and worked my tail of to just paid off half. Is it unbearable? Five days a week for past five years, nonstop, you tell me.

My point is go to the least expansive school you can get in. Forget about schools like USC or NYU, it's not worth it. People tell you otherwise is either in those school themselves or doesn't have any idea how debt will affect your life.

 

[Bereno]

If there are schools out there cost much less than 200k or around 200k, why should you spend more? You are getting the same license. I didn't tell you how I paid off half of my debt in five years, I basically was living off my hubby, and worked my tail of to just paid off half. Is it unbearable? Five days a week for past five years, nonstop, you tell me.

My point is go to the least expansive school you can get in. Forget about schools like USC or NYU, it's not worth it. People tell you otherwise is either in those school themselves or doesn't have any idea how debt will affect your life.

a few things:

1. It might be just me, but I wont be paying a dental school for the license, I'm paying for the experience and education

2. You were living off your husband, and were only able to pay off 100K in 5 years?? Is your salary super low? 😕

3. What if someone only gets into 1 or 2 schools, and they happen to be USC and/or NYU? People go to the expensive schools because they probably did not get into a cheaper one.

The debt is bad, but it is definitely doable, even at an expensive school.

 

[wisdomteeth]

a few things:

1. You dont pay a dental school for the license, you pay for the experience and education

2. You were living off your husband, and were only able to pay off 100K in 5 years?? Is your salary super low? 😕

3. What if someone only gets into 1 or 2 schools, and they happen to be USC and/or NYU? People go to the expensive schools because they probably did not get into a cheaper one.

The debt is bad, but it is definitely doable, even at an expensive school.

1. the cheaper schools are good enough for you to get the education you need to take boards (may be even better), real experiences will come later.

2. Besides paying off debt, don't forget, there are emergency fund, down payment for a house, retirement saving.

3. If the only school one gets in is USC or NYU, I would not even go into dentistry, bottom line the price is too high. Go ask 10 GPs out there and see what they say.

Look, I was thinking what you are thinking too, but the reality is dentistry sucks right now, and will be continue sucks for a long long time. Debt is not bad, as long as it is within reason. 450k 300k just for dental school is not reasonable.

 

[ortho lurker]

3. If the only school one gets in is USC or NYU, I would not even go into dentistry, bottom line the price is too high. Go ask 10 GPs out there and see what they say.

I went to USC and I am doing just fine. 🙂 If being a GP sucks so bad, one can always try for a perio residency and do the traveling in-house implant thing afterwards for 50% production and you would also do fine. 👍 GPs don't refer out much specialty work nowadays any way.

 

[Bereno]

1. the cheaper schools are good enough for you to get the education you need to take boards (may be even better), real experiences will come later.

2. Besides paying off debt, don't forget, there are emergency fund, down payment for a house, retirement saving. I hate to use this card, but I am going to. I am a finance major so I am well aware of other costs. The fact remains that a 450K, 10 year loan at 6.8% interest can be paid off with about 60k a year... that is doable if a recent grad is starting at about 120K a year (assuming it goes up from there). Plus there is the income based repayment plan that makes it easily payable.

3. If the only school one gets in is USC or NYU, I would not even go into dentistry, bottom line the price is too high. Go ask 10 GPs out there and see what they say. Really? I have asked a lot of GPs that I have shadowed and they all seem to agree that the cost of education is getting quite high, but I have not heard any of them say it is too high to enter the field. Thats just been my experience though...

Look, I was thinking what you are thinking too, but the reality is dentistry sucks right now, and will be continue sucks for a long long time. Debt is not bad, as long as it is within reason. 450k 300k just for dental school is not reasonable. I dont think dentistry sucks right now at all... could be just me, but I think its actually a pretty good time to enter the field. Plus there will be a large influx of older dentists selling their practices to make buying into a practice easier on the recent grad. Maybe you live in an area that is saturated with dentists? Try to look at the positive side of things! 👍

my comments are in blue

 

[wisdomteeth]

"I am a finance major so I am well aware of other costs. The fact remains that a 450K, 10 year loan at 6.8% interest can be paid off with about 60k a year... that is doable if a recent grad is starting at about 120K a year (assuming it goes up from there). ........."

Mr Finance Major, on paper it seems very doable, in reality it is quite difficult to do this. I make more than 120k, my interest is a lot lower than 6.8%, I can not paid 60k a year if I want to save for other needs. I don't think your math reflects reality.

Do you really want to pay 5000 a month for 10 years for school, that's not including the house you live in and the practice you wish to buy?

 

[wisdomteeth]

"I went to USC and I am doing just fine. "

Good for you, I am doing fine too, I sure am glad in my days, tuition are a lot more reasonable. Knowing what I know about money, I will never borrow 450k for any school.

 

[Bereno]

"I am a finance major so I am well aware of other costs. The fact remains that a 450K, 10 year loan at 6.8% interest can be paid off with about 60k a year... that is doable if a recent grad is starting at about 120K a year (assuming it goes up from there). ........."

Mr Finance Major, on paper it seems very doable, in reality it is quite difficult to do this. I make more than 120k, my interest is a lot lower than 6.8%, I can not paid 60k a year if I want to save for other needs. I don't think your math reflects reality.

Do you really want to pay 5000 a month for 10 years for school, that's not including the house you live in and the practice you wish to buy?

I'm honestly not trying to be mean or difficult, I'm just trying to see why you think anything above 200K is too expensive. The example I gave was pretty much a "worst case" scenario... I don't see how having 220K in debt at less than 6.8% while making over 120K a year is bad... Maybe its because I'm used to living off minimum wage eating Top Ramen haha. Even then, if I only got into NYU, I would opt for an IBR program to make servicing my loans very manageable. Would you agree that paying 15% of your income is doable?

Do I agree that some schools are super expensive? Absolutely. However, I am more than willing to pay 400K to get my education if I have to. 😀

 

[wisdomteeth]

I'm honestly not trying to be mean or difficult, I'm just trying to see why you think anything above 200K is too expensive. The example I gave was pretty much a "worst case" scenario... I don't see how having 220K in debt at less than 6.8% while making over 120K a year is bad... Maybe its because I'm used to living off minimum wage eating Top Ramen haha. Even then, if I only got into NYU, I would opt for an IBR program to make servicing my loans very manageable. Would you agree that paying 15% of your income is doable?

Do I agree that some schools are super expensive? Absolutely. However, I am more than willing to pay 400K to get my education if I have to. 😀

15% of income is doable, but it should be the very last resort for anyone. I sincerely hope you will have more choices for dental school.

I like Ramen noodle too 🙂

 

[Bereno]

15% of income is doable, but it should be the very last resort for anyone. I sincerely hope you will have more choices for dental school.

I like Ramen noodle too 🙂

Fair enough! 🙂 👍

 

[dentalman85]

Quick update for all you guys!

So I decided to go after all.
I'm going to borrow the least amount I can, try to bring it down to 300k or less, and borrow the rest from my rich uncle.

Yes, not a great solution to removing debt totally but he's not charging interest so.....

Yes, if I end up taking 450k, that is an insane amount of money but I figure I'll just live as I'm leaving now (frugally), pay it off to a reasonable amount to keep interest from racking up and just work as an associate dentists for a couple of years.

Or go to a specialty and make more money that way haha although that's probably not feasible.

Thanks for all your input you guys. Now I'm just going to worry about making friends and doing well in school I guess.

Feel like a freshman all over again.

 

[cmcner]

Quick update for all you guys!

So I decided to go after all.
I'm going to borrow the least amount I can, try to bring it down to 300k or less, and borrow the rest from my rich uncle.

Yes, not a great solution to removing debt totally but he's not charging interest so.....

Yes, if I end up taking 450k, that is an insane amount of money but I figure I'll just live as I'm leaving now (frugally), pay it off to a reasonable amount to keep interest from racking up and just work as an associate dentists for a couple of years.

Or go to a specialty and make more money that way haha although that's probably not feasible.

Thanks for all your input you guys. Now I'm just going to worry about making friends and doing well in school I guess.

Feel like a freshman all over again.

Good choice, I'll see you at the tailgates.

 

[mr24]

Quick update for all you guys!

So I decided to go after all.
I'm going to borrow the least amount I can, try to bring it down to 300k or less, and borrow the rest from my rich uncle.

Yes, not a great solution to removing debt totally but he's not charging interest so.....

Yes, if I end up taking 450k, that is an insane amount of money but I figure I'll just live as I'm leaving now (frugally), pay it off to a reasonable amount to keep interest from racking up and just work as an associate dentists for a couple of years.

Or go to a specialty and make more money that way haha although that's probably not feasible.

Thanks for all your input you guys. Now I'm just going to worry about making friends and doing well in school I guess.

Feel like a freshman all over again.

Great choice!!!